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Dumbass Kid Messengers being respected

Discussion in 'David Miscavige and Current Management' started by mrtampa2, Mar 17, 2015.

  1. mrtampa2

    mrtampa2 Patron

    I spent a decade in the SO as a supervisor. One thing that astonishes me are the CMO messangers. You have to respect these little kids as if they were LRH and you have to follow their orders unconditionally.

    1. I think they are incompetent uneducated inexperienced bratts. most of them have no GED or HSD, and they have no clue of basics of life, science, literature - they even hardly understand Scientology.It is weird to call a 9 years old girl "Sir" and follow their crazy orders.

    2. They don't talk to you -thinking you are way below them

    3. Their IQ, comprehension of basic of life is practically zero

    It is one of the weirdest things to worship these little kids as they do or as we did.

    7,8,9, etc years old kids called Mr XY.....
  2. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Treating them with the respect they deserved would mean treating them as you would any prepubescent children. Encouragement in their education, help if needed with their homework, giving them the facilities to play ball games or to climb trees, play with toys, go on little adventures, reading, safe places to play in, letting them know that you are there if they need you. It doesn't mean giving them higher status than their parents and allowing them to swagger around telling adults what to do. Children should be allowed to understand that they don't know everything and that they need to learn a lot about life. They should also get love and guidance from their parents. SO kids were abused by Hubbard's weird use of them.
  3. Mike Laws

    Mike Laws Patron Meritorious

    Sticking a teenage girl in a navy uniform and giving her unlimited ethics power is the absolute precise formula to create an area of hell on earth.
  4. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Some background


    The primary form of abuse by Hubbard of children was psychological. Denied normal childhood, and adolescence, they became extensions of a cult leader - and that was considered an honor and a privilege, with parents eagerly giving their children to the Commodore (a.k.a. "Source") so that they may serve him.

    These old posts cover a little of it.

    In saddle brown from former Commodore's Messenger, 'Cowboy':

    This is where the cowboy rides away. Love that George Strait song.

    Guys and gals, it has been a pleasure chatting with you. To have shared some experiences was cathartic.

    I have never been prouder than when the old man placed his hand on my shoulder and validated me for a complicated project which I took care of for him. I've also never been more devastated than when I was berated for some real or imagined transgression, my hand shaking as I struck a lighter and reached across to light the old man's cigarette. The other messengers would visibly pull back from me, knowing that being associated with me would perhaps make them also the subject or his ire.

    I've never been more emotional than when I would witness people's lives ripped asunder. I've been ordered to mete out punishments which I knew the receiving party didn't deserve. I've seen well intentioned staff members, pale with lack of sleep, waiting for words of approval, only to be chastised, or, in some cases, even worse.

    So many images flash through my mind as I consider again what i went through in Scn. The sight of the ship at dock as I flew overhead in a commercial plane, arriving for the first time. The reality of my bunk, the smell of stale sweat in the humid air, people off duty scouring the under-decks looking for cockroach nests, in order to earn the few extra dollars the extermination of the cockroach nests would bring in bounty.

    The first time I saw Hubbard, the emperor, surrounded by his entourage.... and I realized that.... he looked like a person. His face was pitted and craggy, his hair not the golden mane I'd expected but thinning and shot with gray and vestiges of the famous red from his photos, his corpulence, was not what I'd expected.

    And the first time I saw him scream at a messenger, this physically intimidating (to a child) adult shouting so loud at a cringing messenger that spittle was flying, the messenger whiter than her clothing, shaking under the intensity of his wrath.

    Was this the God-like entity who had opened the door to my spiritual salvation?

    Then, a moment watching Hubbard walking the decks beside HRH, seeing him as, of all things, a son, wanting approval from his father. What must Harry Ross have thought of his boy with his own ship, dressed as a Commodore and surrounded by scantily clad young girls?

    Long lines of crew in the airport as we left Curacao, Quentin smiling and being Quentin as we waited, only to arrive a few hours later in a land of milk and honey; endless hot water and the beautiful beaches of Daytona... the relief and the smiles obvious on everyone's faces at the change in lifestyle.

    Mindless orders to RPF those I thought Hubbard considered his friends, meter readings convincing him that his estimate of them was incorrect, and that they harbored some ill will, to see the RS/RPF craze strike like a plague, decimating the ranks of those around him, the circle growing closer and closer....only to eventually find out that these people's servitude, months or years in the RPF, were pointless, the people had been judged and convicted without a jury to a life in many ways worse than a prison... for only imagined infractions.

    My deepest secret, that I once didn't report an RS, because I knew what it would have meant to the person....

    The coldness I saw in Hubbard toward others, including his family, the distance he kept... the absence of the qualities I would have envisioned most in a spiritual leader.... qualities one might have imagined in Christ, or Ghandi, but Hubbard was bereft of such qualities. I was ordered to barge into someone's room at three in the morning and threaten to assign the man to the RPF if he didn't get his ass up and work more on a project, despite the fact that he'd been up for 24 hours, to find him in his wife's arms, stunned as I delivered the message... then his asking me how he could possibly satisfy Hubbard.... He wanted desperately to please the old man, but couldn't imagine how. I think he would have taken his own life if Hubbard wanted him to. The agony of trying his best but his best (which was good) not coming close to satisfying Hubbard. The vile and derisive names Hubbard called him by, the snide remarks to the messengers about this man...

    Steve Irwin's acknowledgement that he must be damned to the darkest of all Hells because he'd been slapped by Hubbard... Irwin had always been a corker, light hearted, jokingly calling Quentin, before his death, by his nick name, "Son of Source".

    Sleepless days spent vetting secrets from documents in fear that the FBI would raid any moment, afraid I'd fall asleep and miss blacking out, or cutting out some secret which the FBI would find and destroy Scn with, and it would be my fault because after two days with no sleep I fell asleep....

    Phil Valinsky dying in session at SU and the contortions to hide the truth... and then seeing a copy of his official granting of 21 years of leave, with orders to report back to duty in his new body... I remember thinking how come he got 21 years to live childhood in his new body before reporting back to duty, yet I started working at about 12. He get's a childhood and I don't? BTW, did Phil ever report back in his new body?

    Bribes, threats, manipulations, reaching out across the country to bend people to Hubbard's will.

    A man steadily losing more and more of his mind... Finally enfeebled, his hands shaking, gaunt, lucid only part of the time, confined to bed for most of the day for weeks on end... Human. Undivine. Unmiraculous.

    The bonding of my friends, my fellow messengers, our gazes at one another voicing what we could not speak of.... I don't mean to speak demeaningly of any military sacrifices made by our armed forces, but we messengers, in many ways, became a Band of Brothers. To be in your teens and living on a few hours sleep a night for weeks or months, the pressures placed upon us, the yelling... but, at the same time, craving approval... the feeling of being on top of the world when some deed one had performed was acknowledged with a "Well Done".

    Even as I left, my heart ached for Hubbard, for the conversations neither I nor anyone could ever have with him, remembering the lives he'd ruined... that I had sometimes ruined in his name, but still feeling a bond with him, though my candid assessment of the truth of Scn was forcing me to depart. Stockholm Syndrome? Maybe.

    In the decades since I left, when I've occasionally met up with a former comrade and heard of the tragedies befalling those who stayed behind, my heart ached for them. Of the legal manipulation to avoid the truth. Can the world not understand the pressures that a dedicated staff member would answer to that would make them give false testimony in a heart beat, gladly, to impeach detractors of the church, or to protect leaders of the church from prosecution?

    Shelly Miscavige, a girl I called my friend, what sort of life are you suffering through now?

    I'm deluged still with thoughts and sorrows and regrets, acceptance of the harm I directly caused others through following orders. Hitler's orders to his staff were not enough to free them from consequences for their War Crimes. I can make excuses, but, in many ways I caused harm. I remember convincing someone to join the SO, to bring her family and young children in, to see her a year later in the RPF, her kids being worked like adults, being haunted by the unspoken accusation in her glance, "Why did you take me and my family away from the world we knew, for this?" her gaze said to me. Whatever happened to her, I wonder. Did she and her children leave, or did I rob them of their childhood like mine was robbed from me?

    Yes, the cowboy rides away. I'll be back, perhaps. Thanks for your words of encouragement. The gratitude that many of you have expressed has been touching. I hope that for some, my musings have helped put things in perspective, and maybe, somewhere, some time, I will find that my words helped someone to make their life their own again. To perhaps look a little deeper at Scn, to question, to use their mind, to perhaps value their children and family a little bit more, and reflect on my experiences and realize that the time has come to use the stark light of reason to make decisions.

    If anything, I hoped I've shown that Hubbard, and the experiences of those around him, can not be summarily explained. Now, as I reflect, I pity him, what he must have internalized at the end, as his body wilted away....

    Instances of child abuse included placing children in the ship's, dangerous, chain locker for prolonged periods of time as punishment. The institutionalized abuse of the Children's RPF began in 1976. The psychological abuse of the Children's Security Check began in 1961 - which was used to age 12, after which children were to be subjected to adult Security Checks, also begun in 1961.


    From what I understand, Annie Broeker's mother was and is a Scientologist, and Annie was born into Scientology, becoming a Commodore's Messenger. She served Hubbard on the ship, which would have meant that she would have been 13 or 14 at the time (as best as I can approximate it), then she "served LRH on a daily basis for the last ten years of his life." So, roughly, she would have been thirty at the time of Hubbard's death. That means she spent most of her life - up to the age of thirty - as a personal servant to L. Ron Hubbard. I've seen some of the (confidential) Commodore's Messenger material - written by Hubbard - and it is creepy stuff. Annie, rather than having a normal adolescence, instead was a full time servant of the founder of the cult of Scientology.

    Hubbard had a preference for Annie Broeker, and she became his number one female servant.

    And a little more from Cowboy:

    Regarding the ages of the Commodore's Messengers:

    Most went straight to the CMO, slightly over half I'd say, starting at 12 or so for many. A few held other posts and would enter a little bit later, after some non-CMO experience. Very, very, very few got in in their twenties. Mostly not where the old man was.

    _______And some more, beginning with 'A new Messenger'_______​

    A new messenger waited outside the door to the room that held his Majesty King Red. He was visibly shaking, nervous as all get out about meeting, and working with the old man. He was stuttering, going on about how awesome it must be being in the shadow of Source on a daily basis. He flinched when the old man's booming scream pierced through the doorway and another messenger, white-faced, came rushing out of the office with an armful of materials, the old man's voice screaming after her.

    The new guy blanched. "Come on, he can't be alone," I whispered to him. The guy nodded, but I had to prod him to get him to follow me into the room.

    I introduced him. The old man gave a grunt and pointed down at the pile of submissions which lay on the ground, where the messenger who'd been with him a moment ago until being dispatched on some urgent errand, had left them.

    I picked up the first, summarized what the submission was about. "Nooooh," the old man said, and reached for a cigarette.

    New Guy fumbled with the lighter and dropped it.

    New Guy knew something about the submission. He tried to explain the issue. "NOOOOOH," the old man said again. "You let them submit this crap?" he asked New Guy.

    New Guy just sat there, with his deer in the headlights look, and, unfortunately for him, nodded his head.

    "What the hell were you thinking?" the old man asked.

    New Guy couldn't figure out what to say.

    "Well, speak up man!"

    New guy remained immobile as the old man turned beet red and started yelling. "Get the hell out of here. Get off watch. You're no god-damned help," he told New Guy.

    I don't remember if he ever was allowed on watch again. Poor New Guy was slapped in the face with reality, rather than fantasy. He was crushed. He was demoted out of the messenger org, and never got the chance to make it to the top again. Hubbard criticized the hell out of him, saying his confront was out.

    It wasn't always easy to be yelled at by a God...

    _______But there were happy moments too for the Commodore_________​

    Mike Douglas, Kima's husband, he's dead now, he'd work special projects for the old man or Kima. You should have seen the old man's eyes light up when Mike showed up with a handful of diamonds which Hubbard had directed him to purchase. Boy, Hubbard was almost as excited as when he saw the bag so filled with Krugerands he could hardly lift it. Nothing like good old material goods to make a man salivate... get those old spiritual juices flowing...


    John McMaster ("First Real Clear" 1965, Declared SP 1969), from a 1985 interview:

    He [Hubbard] got the technology to the point where he had a sort of assembly line as he called it. And he told me how he was putting all these 'square ball bearings' on the beginning of the assembly line, and then turning them into 'round ball bearings' at the other end. That was his idea of 'standard tech'.


    First, an excerpt from Russell Miller's interview of David Mayo, Class XII, from August 1986.

    This excerpt concerns events from the late 1960s:

    He [Hubbard] could be capable of incredible cruelty. On the ship there was an old man on the Royal Scotman who he made push a peanut round the decks with his nose. He had to get down on his hands and knees, he had to go round the deck, quite a long distance in a race with one or two others also in trouble. The first one back got let off and the last one got a double penalty.

    It was really tough on this old guy, Charlie Reisdorf. The surface of the deck was very rough wood, prone to splinter, so after pushing peanuts with their noses, they all had raw, bleeding noses, leaving a trail of blood behind them. I not only saw it but the entire crew of the ship was mustered - a mandatory attendance - we were required to watch this punishment, to make an example of it for the rest of us. Reisdorf was in his late 50s probably. His two daughters were messengers, they were 11 or 12 at time and his wife was there also.

    It was hard to say which was worse to watch: this old guy with a bleeding nose or his wife and kids sobbing and crying at being forced to watch this. Hubbard was standing there calling the shots, yelling, 'Faster, Faster!'. It was indignity, degradation and breaking a person's will, and making people watch. It was disgusting...

    They used to have people locked in the chain locker, including small children. It was very dangerous because if the anchor started to slip and started running out, it would probably turn a body into a pulp in no time at all...

    He [LRH] had a birthday party on March 13, 1968; there was a woman who he ordered locked in the chain locker. During the party he had brought her out. She was filthy, covered with dirt and rust, and had not been allowed to wash or change clothes - she had been in there for a week... he brought her out to the party. He said he was giving her a reprieve and permitting her to come to the party, as if that was a nice gesture. She wasn't allowed to change. She was brought to the party and had to stay, and later was returned [to the chain locker]... it was flaunting her degradation...

    Why did people stand by?...

    From time to time, Hubbard would cancel such activities like the chain locker, and blame it on someone else... He would start such pronouncements with, 'It has just come to my attention...'

    The length of time for children would vary, but no one was less than a day...

    Reisdorf [peanut pushing] affair - if someone tried to do something, it would have made it worse. Hubbard said that maritime law prevailed... He said that under maritime law, he had total power over everyone on the vessel...

    And one brief excerpt concerning events from the late 1970s:

    He told me he was obsessed with an insatiable lust for power and money. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn't get enough.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  5. BunnySkull

    BunnySkull Silver Meritorious Patron

    I think because of the resentment the CMO kids incur from both older SO members, staff and public that the fact that they are victims of the worst kind of institutionalized child abuse has been somewhat overlooked. People always state they had "unlimited ethics power" but forget that if the CMO kid failed or did not follow orders as directed, their punishments were gruesome.

    These were young kids, plucked from their families, and then indoctrinated to be the cult's ultimate servants. They are chosen so young because anyone with life experience and a bit more maturity/ emotional intelligence can't be so easily manipulated and indoctrinated. The love of their families is gone and they only thing they have in life to cling to is the acceptance of their CMO peers and superiors - their is nothing else for these adolescents during a time in life where they need love and guidance the most. They are told they are above other SO members in an attempt to keep them as isolated as possible from any one outside of the CMO brainwash bubble.

    It's childhood slavery and indoctrination at its worst. It's taking unformed young minds, before they have a chance to develop their own personalities, and trying to permanently implant the personality of a Ronbot slave no matter the collateral damage.
  6. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    Annie Broeker

    David Miscavige

    Shelly Miscavige

    Julie Blundell on the right with a swollen face and eye patch.


    Sharon Stainforth
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  7. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    In some African countries including Zimbabwe (where Hubbard once was) children are taken from their parents in raids, then made to kill their Mum and Dad, after that they are heartless killing machines. The similarity is frightening, as is the similarity with the Hitler youth movement.
  8. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    I hate to look at these photographs!
    The ugliest , most disgusting side of the cruel guru and his lunatic cult.

    The normal day to day, children abuse, a slavery openly driven, by enforcers and silently witnessed by thousands ! :unsure:

    Life ruined as becoming an abused child or abuser!

    Did I say I hate this ???? :unsure:
  9. Mike Laws

    Mike Laws Patron Meritorious

    Read this three times, first it made me bow up, then I thought about it some more tried to put in personal responsibility, then decided you might be exactly right ... it is an institutionalized insanity.

    But I hold true to my statement that sticking a teenage girl in a navy uniform, giving her unlimited ethics power is a formula for organized hell in her sphere of influence.

    I was a messenger at 18 and remember talking to others, younger, and female ... the girls seemed to have a harder time getting respect.

    Teenage messengers didn't often make it to the orgs, and the public generally knew nothing about them. I think the secret disdain was very much an SO thing, and as mostly occurs in life, if you treat people decently with respect, there are not too many problems. I don't remember getting flack for doing my job as a messenger when I had to.
  10. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    I think you're both right.

    I've experienced different kinds of messengers.

    Thirteen year old kids who are absolutely clueless throwing their power around. Like Mike said, some of these children can make life hell for anyone who is lower than they are on the food chain. Trying to explain reality to them with their insane orders...good luck with that.

    Then again, there were others. People like Lana Mitchell. Tom DeVocht. Kenny Lipton. Bruce Waggoner (he was SO Programs Ops CMO PAC forever). They were sane. You could talk to them.

    Usually they were older. That probably helped.

    But I have to admit, Cara Shaffner, who was on the EPF when she was 10 and held CO CMO PAC by the time she was 15....wasn't always sane but she did try. You could tell she was struggling to not be an idiot asshole. Had to be hard for her; all that responsibility at such a young age.

    The whole messenger thing...LRH wanted them young. As I've said a few times on this board, I had a friend a AOLA who tried to become a messenger in the early days on the ship and was rejected because she was too old.

    She was 16.

    But then, in the LRH days, all he wanted them to do is parrot his orders. They weren't required to think, and make decisions.

    Having a 12 year old run and tell someone else something is one thing. Having them being executives over organizations is something else entirely.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  11. Miss Ellie

    Miss Ellie Miss Ellie

    I notice that you never see promotional photos of "very young" SO members these days. You do not hear them mentioned in DM 's messages.

    They are so used & abused in many ways.

    I always felt LRH was a pedophile even it he never "truly" had sex with them. I think he was gratified by many things and children under his control and doing his bidding were a sexual power game.

    It is sad that the tradition is still going on with DM.

    I hope one day the SO will be a footnote in history.... and children will no longer be the victims of the sciobots.

    :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh:
  12. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Some more background

    Here's some more background - just a smattering of items that are handy - illustrating contempt for families, children, and the encouragement of abortion.

    (A thread concerning Hubbard pressuring and also ordering abortions for female Sea Org members on the Apollo. )

    From the 1952 Philadelphia Doctorate Course:

    "We mustn't mention this because, God help us, there goes the moral code. Penicillin took out the disease level and now... [a person] can take a couple of beams of energy.... and terminate a pregnancy. Nothing wild or forceful or upsetting or anything like that. Just make sure the tube opens. It's very simple. There are muscles and so forth that contract and expand at a certain period every month, and that sort of thing.

    "Pregnancies that have been as much as three months advanced have been terminated that way... Isn't this fascinating? So you've got something like birth control sitting right there in theta clearing... It's just deadly. One, two, three!"


    Hubbard had a low opinion of "family':

    "The GE [Genetic Entity, a degraded 'thetan', that zombie-like, runs the body's functions] is a family man. The GE is lost without the family. It's very strange but Homo Sap is a family unit. The GE is built on that basis...

    "And your thetan, by the way, can much more easily go into a group. Families are not good groups."​


    L. Ron Hubbard established the Children's RPF in 1976:


    Robert Vaughn Young re. the RPF and RPF's RPF, and re. children RPF'ed on the 'Flagship Apollo':


    Here's the Sec Check for Children, written by L Ron Hubbard.

    Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex


    HCO WW Security Form 8

    The following is a processing check for use on children.
    Be sure the child can understand the question. Rephrase it so he or she
    can understand it. The first question is the most potent.

    Children's Security Check

    Ages 6 -- 12
  13. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    If you look at the child's face in this photo you will see that it is badly swollen. A women who says it is her said she can't be sure but she remembers being hit in the face by some of the ships rigging. She thinks that may be the cause of the swelling:

    "Yep I am still alive and yes I am out. Have family still involved though so you know the drill, low profile and all that! I have stayed out of everything up til now, but due to your very sincere and reasonable request for real clarification rather than speculation, I have posted below what I think was the cause of that facial swelling and probable eye patch. It was such a long time ago, but I can say for sure that no one hit me on flag, nor was I ever locked in the chain locker. But people were, I did see this personally, my sister being one. I was however well and truly belted a few years later at AOSH DK by a crazy woman from flag on mission to DK. AND she was one of the CS's! jeeez!! If my dad had not busted in the door and stopped her, I would have been a real mess! So yes, i can confidently attest to the fact that violence did happen on occasion! She was trying to stop me leaving the SO at the time and I was 15. As if that's gonna work on a 15 year old very stubborn person!! HAH!!"

    "Bumpa said:
    "I was one of his messengers since the inception of the CMs, together with Annie, Terry and Janis. I left in 1970 sometime. And no, Ron never hit me in all my time with him.I think that the swollen face may have come from an accident up forward one day when a pulley system came loose, swung down and hit me in the face. I don't remember ever having a bad enough tooth ache on board to have that much swelling, although, lets face it, oral hygiene was not a great priority back then so it may well have been a toothache! Oh, And I could have been anywhere from 8 1/2 to 11 1/2. So there you have it straight from the horses mouth!
    Toddles! JB
    Ps.... I was not short! It's the camera angle I'm sure!! [​IMG])"
  14. BunnySkull

    BunnySkull Silver Meritorious Patron

    Don't misunderstand me, it is totally insane to give a 12 year old girl (or guy) the type of power CMO kids have and I'm sure they are absolutely little terrors that have earned the reputation they have. This, however, doesn't negate the fact that it is institutionalized child abuse and indoctrination at it worse. The reputation they have shows the indoctrination works, they are the terrors that LRH intended.

    A world with 12 and 13 year olds in positions of power? Oh, hell no, that's a total nightmare. Thinking back on my childhood, or years until I was 18, the adolescent years were the absolute worst because of other adolescents - and it was so miserable just because of the the amount of peer power and influence a few certain kids had over the many. Kids that age are insecure, thoughtless and that easily leads them to be mindlessly cruel and even savage towards others. In the normal world the adolescent insanity only has to be endured by other adolescents, but in Scientology LRH insured that adults would have to suffer under them. He was well aware of how to use adolescent insecurity, lack of empathy (in many cases due simply to impurity and thoughtlessness) and their frustration with their sense of powerlessness in the world to his complete advantage.

    I have no doubt he studied the Hitler Youth, and thought Lord of the Flies was a lovely book about survival of the fittest. DM is the living embodiment of the intentions of CMO indoctrination, he is exactly what LRH intended with the CMO program - an unthinking, rabid ruthless dog dedicated to getting compliance at any cost. I think LRH tried to transfer his obsession with power onto CMO kids - the power these kids have is the biggest carrot. Kids that age usually have zero power in the world and resent adults. The power LRH gave the kids (in his name) had to be very intoxicating for a typical kid and as LRH expected easily and regularly abused to keep the adults humiliated and in terror.

    I mean CMO is partly about humiliation - an adult man getting faced ripped by a 12 year old girl is nothing less than humiliating and ridiculous. I think that's exactly what LRH intended, yet another way to ensure he had totally broken SO members into absolute subservience, even by a proxy in the form of a kid with pig-tails.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  15. arcxcauseblows

    arcxcauseblows Patron Meritorious

    must have been something awful, to me it sounds like some torture gimmick like blasting loud rap music at adults in guantanamo bay
  16. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I think so too. We know, from many sources, that LRH screwed a lot of women in his earlier days. I'm guessing that, sometime in the ship days, he started getting impotent. But he still liked being surrounded by pretty young girls in short shorts.

    I'm wondering what stories Annie Broeker might have had to tell, if she had gotten out before she died in 2012.
  17. guRl

    guRl Patron with Honors

    I've always been deeply intrested in learning about the life and psyche of CMO kids and teens, especially nowadays, for multiple reasons.
    I remember starting this tread about three years ago:

    It had some interesting insights and information. Also, there was this thread:

    It contains a couple of stories about Messengers and the Sea Org in general.
    Anyways, in my eyes it would be fascinating to hear some experiences of Ex-Messengers, particurlarly those who no longer had any Commodore to follow. I mean, no Hubbard, no Apollo, no ashtrays.. just DM. And Int. And Flag. And umm.. the rest of them AO's :eyeroll:
  18. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    One thing strikes me about this picture of LRH and Annie Broeker.

    Here's a link to a bigger version of the pic. Study it closely.

    Maybe it's that I'm a dirty old man, but when I look closely at the bigger pic, at how LRH is holding Annie's shoulder, where his thumb is resting on her body, and the look on Annie's face -- if I were Annie's dad and I saw that, I would have dragged her off the ship the same day, by whatever means necessary.
  19. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    You're right. It's creepy.
  20. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    Well, one small advantage I managed to get out of these young children was I had, as an ethics 'terminal' a young lady who had had an instant hat as & EO + her purify.

    I was on OT 7 before this child was born. I always felt badly for her as it was so easy to completely pull the wool over her eyes & walk scot free !

    Young, uneducated, no life experience & a huge ego ! They were only dangerous to those who had to say 'sir' to them.

    <> <> <> <>

    And, yes, had I seen Ron touch & look at my daughter the way he did in that photo ? I'd kill the bastard where he stood.

    <> <> <> <>

    But, thank somebody, one day I looked up in the sky & saw that I can't give away my freedom to gain an eternity that is already mine to begin with !