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Emotions and charge

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by lionheart, Jan 20, 2008.

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  1. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Go for it! The more the merrier, as long as it works. The hardest part, in my opinion, is having some very rapid method of dealing with the onset of anaten in the absence of a live practitioner. The second hardest part is correctly estimating all likely reactions and making sure they are covered by your procedure. And the third is setting it up so that even a completely untrained person using the software will only run charged topics, and only then for as long as change is occurring. I think I solved all those well enough. I would be very interested if someone came up with radically-different solutions than mine to those points. :)

    Last edited: Jan 21, 2008
  2. Pierrot

    Pierrot Patron with Honors

    LOL !

    As sessions usually lasted about one minute to FTA, probably to add some substance, when I was audited on NOTS at Saint Hill I was bringing in coffee and sweets for my auditor, we shared and we always began by chatting a bit about whatever. Casual. Before any "formal" session, which thus didn't sound "formal" anymore. I bet we would have to skip sharing coffee and chocolates with the Robot Auditor ;-)
  3. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Sounds like Ivis up to Wednesday when she would start worrying about making her 25 WDAHs for the week. I was NOTs Board I/C around 1981/2. Maybe we met. :)

  4. Pierrot

    Pierrot Patron with Honors

    Maybe - I PMed you.
  5. Ego

    Ego Patron

    :confused2: :confused2: :confused2:

    The PC is described as wanting something handled. The coach/auditor is described as knowing that what the PC believes is unreal. The process is described as complete when the PC has given up that wanting and has given up belief.

    How is that processing the positive?

    :confused2: :confused2: :confused2:

  6. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Ivis Bolger?
  7. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire


  8. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    I didn't exactly say that the coach knows that what the PC believes is unreal. What I said was "X" was an apparency that the PC believes is real. That's not quite the same thing. :) An Apparency is what appears to be from the PC's point of view. It is real enough.

    I didn't say releasing was the PC "giving up" X or "giving up" wanting to handle X. That could imply reluctance from the PC or some sort of force. The PC can either hold on or let go of X. The releasing I do is just an invitation, but the PC is the only authority on what he wants to do.

    "Processing the positive" was Alan's phrase not mine. Personally I wouldn't use the word positive, because that implies an opposite negative. But I maybe sort of get what he means. I think the context was what I said about my coaching being an invitation to the PC to see the perfection that they already are. Mmm ... processing towards the perfection... interesting.

    I realise this is a difficult concept for those educated deeply in Scn concepts. I've had a quarter of a century and other self-help techniques to re-educate myself. :)

    Another way to try to explain what I do is to look at the paradox. I have found in my Scn auditing and in other techniques since, that basically all truths seem to be a paradox which are not really understandable with logical thinking. (Oh-oh Lionheart is going to go off on one again! :melodramatic: )

    What I have found is that at some point, the PC realises, once he has released something, that everything is perfect and always was even when he had believed he had to get rid of something! This is an illogical paradox, but it is fundamentally the essence of a release. :thumbsup:

    In the sort of coaching that I do, the coach fundamentally knows this which is his freedom of action in the session and his pan-determinism about the outcome. But he sort of knowingly goes below the paradox in the session to help the PC. So he listens and invites the PC to see if he is willing to let X go. He is flexible and can adapt his questions based upon the PCs answers because he basically understands the paradox that he is dealing with.

    This is very different from Scn auditing which is usually focussed on what is "wrong" with the PC and what "needs" adjusting in the PC. The Scn auditor and C/S have Q&Aed with the PC and adopted a knows-best attitude which is evaluative and invalidative.

    I don't know if that clarifies it for anybody.
  9. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    I haven't really got to grips with it yet, but I suspect this is very true.

    There's a nice phrase Heinlein uses in "Stranger": "It's a higher truth that is above mundane logic" IIRC.
  10. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    "Although it's hard to see these things, as through a dark glass straining
    When we're standing face to face, the truth won't need explaining" St Paul
  11. Ego

    Ego Patron

    Towards what they already are? :)devil: Is that like a taxi ride around the block?)
    How about processing the-perfection-that-is-wanting towards betterment?

    Suppose a PC comes with complaints of feeling stupid. You do the coaching that you do and the PC feels a lot better. Then some time later the PC comes to you again and say: "It is great that I don't go around feeling stupid all the time anymore. And even when I am feeling stupid, I am fine with that. It is quite wonderful." From what you can sense he is happy, but there appear to be something on his mind. You ask him about it and he explains that he wants to be more intelligent. He is happy to be wanting to be more intelligent. He isn't interested in loosing his wanting.
    (In your earlier description that I replied to, you seemed to assume that the PC would always come with something he believed was wrong with him.)
    What do you do when the PC wants betterment not riddance?

    Oh no. Not an illogical paradox. :nooo: :dizzy:

    Isn't all auditing focussed on what is "wrong" with the PC and what "needs" adjusting in the PC when the auditor can't see outside his own case?

  12. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    All wants come from a consideration that there is a lack. If the person didn't believe they lacked something they would't want it. If the desire is causing distress then it is still something the person wants to handle or get rid of. He believes that he will find happiness if the perceived lack is corrected and the want is achieved.

    "He is happy to be wanting to be more intelligent. He isn't interested in loosing his wanting." in that case there is no charge and nothing to handle. but if they are frustrated about it or the desire is causing unhappiness, then there is charge and it is something they want to handle.

    Scn auditing is focussed on what is "wrong" with the PC. What this is is largely decided upon by Hubbard.

    The PC feels there are things wrong with them. and Ron "closed terminals" with them and was only too happy to tell them what they had to handle and get rid of and to take their money for it

    By focussing like that the auditor and C/S have Q&Aed with the PC's desires.

    When someone asks me for help, they are focussed on what is "wrong" with them. That doesn't mean I should do the same. I invite them to see if they are able to change their mind about how they see themselves.

    Personally I don't charge anything for doing this coaching and always try to teach the person how to do this releasing themselves.
  13. Ego

    Ego Patron

    But a person can sometimes choose to perceive 'having a certain lack' as a positive attribute. I could call myself curious instead of saying 'I lack information'.
    I could say 'I aspire to have greater intelligence' instead of saying 'I lack intelligence'.

    I believe people have both aspirations and feelings of shortcomings. Sometimes an aspiration and feelings of a shortcoming can be latched together. For example someone who aspire to be more intelligent and who also feels he isn't intelligent enough.

  14. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think you are talking about things that the person has no charge on. Therefore no handling on such things is needed or desired by the PC. I don't think even the CofS would try to audit such uncharged things! :wink2:

    On this thread we are talking about charged emotions.