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Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by jennifer, Sep 22, 2007.

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  1. jennifer

    jennifer Patron

    Preaching ethics that is not practised is like how religious persons can preach against using prostitutes & then get caught out for using them. Its like that conservative politician in the USA who preached against homosexuals but was found being promiscuous in a gay meeting place. People protesting too much about whatever immorality even like Hubbard protested alot about immorality can many times be found hiding their own immorality. Having read about the true life of Hubbard he was very unethical & yet prescribed ethics conditions for others that he himself did not appear to practice. Hubbard had an obsession with crimes, the crimes of other people never his own crimes. Looking for overts & finding these can be a relief for a person in a confessional setting but if ever such overts told in the strictest confidence can be used against a person for whatever reason of vindictive revenge then this is a worst betrayal of help & persons doing this should be barred from hearing any further condessions. If the overts of Hubbard had been properly cleared & handled instead of having treated him like a god then maybe he could have been helped. Hubbard had a detached concept of ethics that what he prescribed was for others & not for him having believed in his own grand illusion that he could have done as he wilt in accordance with Aleister Crowley theory.
  2. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Welcome Jennifer.

    Yes, it is called hypocrisy. It is all too common.
    One of the definitions of treason is "betrayal after trust". I think we agree that that is a very bad thing...
  3. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    I think that one of the lower ethics conditions should be:

    Find out who you are not.

  4. nexus100

    nexus100 Gold Meritorious Patron

    How about find out who you think you are.
  5. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    How bout 'Find out who's forcing you to be who you think you are, and, how are they doing it?'

  6. nexus100

    nexus100 Gold Meritorious Patron

    I submit that identity shift has to be put there by the individual. If that person can't admit he/she put it there then he/she (someone PLEASE create an acceptable English neuter personal pronoun) will never see the truth. But I admit duress from the bleachers doesn't help sort things out.
  7. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    Long long time ago while doing "ethics conditions" for my own reasons (without help from an EO or anyone else) I did use this "find out who you are NOT" as a helpful side trip / corollary while on the "enemy" step of "find out who you REALLY ARE."

    At the time, I felt I had no idea who I "really was" so started by eliminating who I "really was NOT" -- i.e., I'm not my mother, I'm not a rock star, I'm not a major corporation CEO, I'm not my dog, I'm not my 3rd grade teacher, I'm (MOST DEFINITELY!) not a seamstress (!) (even though I owned a sewing machine and had this weird compulsion that I "must" make all my own clothing...:ohmy: ) etc. etc.

    Though certainly not CoS-style "ethics," doing the "conditions" with my own twists was a very interesting and life-changing trip -- a major step on my journey OUT of the world of scientology.

    You are the only other person I've encountered (so far) who thought of this particular twist on that particular step.
  8. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    The lower conditions have to do with fixing and unfixing valences.

    So finding out who you are not would be an undercut to finding out who you "really are".

    You really are who you decide you really are and that's it.

    But Hubbard uses group pressure to get the person to decide on a Scientology valence, and to fix a person more and more into the Scientology Personality.

    Lower ethics conditions are a refinement of the brainwashing technology of Scientology.
  9. Björkist

    Björkist Silver Meritorious Patron

    This was, to me, part of the step of finding out who one is... in relation to the problem at hand.
  10. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    In practice often I guess. In theory no.

    You may wish to drag yourself to my FZ wins stories, and you will find
    wonderful wins on personal integrity courses delivered by a class VIII trained under LRH. This tool can be used for gain.
  11. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    What Terril is referring to is Mary Freeman's application of ethics tech to the first dynamic. The Org's version of an acceptable "who you really are" is usually a staff post or some other group identity - in itself a lie.

    When the ethics formulas get applied first dynamically you dig the guy out of false identities and valences and get him to find out who he really is. A BIG portion of this concerns uncovering and handling any enemy-persona the guy may have adopted. These enemy-personas behave towards the individual and his dynamics just an as enemy would, and its discovery and release leads to huge upsurge in self-determinism. Properly done, the guy will never invalidate himself or his dynamics again.

    One thing that becomes very clear to a person doing these actions on others - and I've been at it for the last 20 years already - is that any ethics handlings done on a person are a complete waste of time until the first dynamic fully handled ethics-wise. It is simply not possible to be ethical on any other dynamic if one is OOV on the first.
  12. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    I always understood Treason and Enemy conditions as follows:


    This applies to finding out one's assigned beingness/role in the group which the person was in treason to. This is what one should be ideally in that group but was not.


    This applies to finding out the beingness/role one has actually assumed with respect to the group.

    One then has the opportunity to compare these two beingnesses when one moves up to the DOUBT condition.

    These are third dynamic conditions in an organization.

  13. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    You are correct in so far as you are referring to Ethics as applied on the third dynamic by the CofS.

    First dynamic is quite different.

    I'm not going to go into too much detail on this as it cannot be done without feeding cognitions a person should reach by him/her self.
  14. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    I can't imagine how these conditions apply to 1st dynamic as a substitute for auditing.

  15. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    Perhaps your imagination would benefit from some exercise outside the boundaries in which you normally keep it contained.
  16. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    You are age regressing. Is your next avatar going to be an egg?:whistling:
  17. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Yes. A fertilized one. :D

  18. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    :buttkick: (sorry - I always wanted to use that one!!!)
  19. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    How about his one?

  20. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    The next one will be something from my past life. Give me some time to scrounge around for one.