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EVIL - I don't get it

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Auditor's Toad, Jan 10, 2011.

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  1. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Mark A. Baker
  2. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Ahh, the real question:D

    In my observation, as one part of the answer observed, I'd say since the SO started running rampant (began in late 1967 . . . but has increasingly gotten worse since then) the whole thing of $cn has been driven down tone by abuse, and now the org personnel are operating out of fear and solutions to fear.

    Senior, but not the very top, are fearful of getting hit if their areas are "down" . . . their solution? Brutalize and terrorize those below them.

    When folks are operating in or out of fear they are irrational and routinely hit the wrong targets.

    I collided with this at Flag in '82 when I questioned a (verbal) directive of an FSO staffer pointing out it was a violation of HCO Pol. . . her response was an insane reaction based on her fear of "not getting compliance" . . . . and I ended up on the slippery slope of Comm Evs-ville.

    At that time in the mid '80's the entirety of org operations was irrational and insane . . . so of course you'll see evil.

    Insanity and evil are twins :yes:

    It was not that way pre-1967.

  3. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    I experienced this.

    In August 2000 I was "Student of the year", "Intern of the year" and "Auditor of the year" with commendations coming out of my butt. In March 2001 (6 months later) I'm expelled from the group and publicly vilified as a bad auditor, PTS declare, Illegal PC declare, comm eved. KR'd up the ying Yang and labeled an SP (not sure if I've ever been officially declared) and whatever else they came up with.

    It always bugged me about David Mayo. If he was soooo bad then how did LRH not see this earlier. I mean he worked closely with the guy for years. How did he not spot this raging SP?
  4. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    David Mayo: One of the nicest men, much less scientologists, I have ever met

    Or course, I have never met "Ron", either. :whistling:

    Mark A. Baker :)
  5. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

  6. paradox

    paradox ab intra silentio vera

    This is so an important truth for anyone to hear, in, out, or in between $cn and something else. "Might" (above) not being a valid option, for anyone with eyes sufficiently un-blindered to see, and a mind sufficiently filter-free.
  7. Stat

    Stat Gold Meritorious Patron

    "Read the book The Lucifer Effect, or find a video from the author entited "Philip Zimbardo: Why ordinary people do evil".
    It's a shocking video, but it shows how decent people can be persuaded to do the most terrible things to others while in a bad
    environment and under bad influence. It also shows how some people came to their senses and put a stop to the terrible
    real-life events going on."

    I do not remember where I snipped it from and I didn't look into it myself yet.
    I just saved it on my desktop as a Notepad thingy for later. I thought it was important enough.
    So I share.
  8. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    I had a bankers box full of KRs on me when I left.

    And David Mayo? At the time he was declared the OT VI coursesheet was HANDWRITTEN by him. Was anybody that did that checksheet have to re-do on another one? Was anybody auditing on OT VII his version called back and re-issued something else? No. How I do I know ? I was AT flag when he was declared just as I finished OT VI.

    So, how bad was Mayo ? Not at all.

    And he CS'd me for awhile - and he was damn sure better than most.

    Going from fair haired darling to red headed illegitimate step child happens overnight.
  9. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    Scientology itself is the real evil. From this perspective, it becomes clear why Scientology would want to expel any element of good from within. The application of the term "evil" to those it expels masks the actual source - as Goebbels said, if you're going to tell a lie, tell a big one.
  10. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    Who knows when the physical abuse started - but, sure, Hubbard certainly codified it when he established the GO/SO to carry out his instructions. But look back even earlier. The use of fear was a prime motivating factor for Hubbard a decade earlier when he was battling "psychs". Without its "enemies" to fear and loathe, Scientology might never have got off the ground. And, from its very beginnings, fear that the planet might never be "saved" has always been at the heart of the Scientology mindset.
  11. Pooks


    Come on guys. We all know the real why. The evil psychs PDH'd all those
    people so they would infiltrate and destroy Scn. When that didn't work the evil pdh'd ones, blew due to their own overts.:duh::duh::duh:
  12. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    From first hand observation and experience, the verbal, emotional, psychic and physical abuse sequentially ratcheted up DRAMATICALLY with the implementations of Ethics Conditions, Awards and Penances, PTS/SP “Tech”, GO, SO and OT 111.

    Face :)
  13. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    Hi Face

    Sorry to hear of your ailments, best wishes for a speedy recovery.

    With one exception, I accept what you say, and thank you for taking the time to do so. Where I quibble is with the "psychic" abuse. From my perspective, that abuse started the moment the first person ever picked up the cans for "Auditing". The first "Clear", a woman introduced as Sonia Bianca, was presented to the world on August 10, 1950. That pre-dates the other abuse by nearly two decades. Just a few years later, the University of New York debunked Dianetics altogether, so I could accept that there was no scientific evidence to confirm Hubbard was being abusive prior to that date. In the intervening, say, 12 years, Scientology/Dianetics exploded and so would have the psychic abuse, if you accept my viewpoint. But, as you say, all the abuse accelerated once it had been codified.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2011
  14. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thanks for the "best wishes"...much appreciated...I'm gonna hurry along as fast as I can but don't be needin' to take no shortcuts.

    No quibble here, pardner.

    I completely agree with your clarrification. I was kinda alludiing to what you say by the phrase, "ratcheted up DRAMATICALLY"....the abuses were already "laced in" long before there were any soup cans to pick up.

  15. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Did LRH bust Otto Roos in the chops before or after overboarding started?
  16. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    El Ron sorta busted Otto in the was more like Ruth Buzzy flailing away with her purse.:eyeroll:

    It was after the overboardings.

  17. anonomog

    anonomog Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you very much for your answer, very informative and interesting. I will look forward to reading more of your story when you are ready. I know I have missed some threads your posts have been in.

    I understand completely about being a sign post and not The Sign Post. Subtle and calm and consistent goes a longer way than in your face lecturing.
    I believe there is value in everyone posting, even if it is questioning, the post could contain the exact phrase someone uses on Google and start the looking process.
  18. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    LOL. That sounds about right.
    You know how it is in scientology: "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story!"
  19. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

  20. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Thanks and I like the Ruth Buzzy flailing :roflmao:

    The poor man always struck me as acting like an old screaming queen but that seems a highly unpopular view of that fat toothless old psycho.