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Ex FSO Purchaser and Sorry

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by djinn, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. djinn

    djinn Patron

    I have found coming to terms with my time has been helpful in my recovery. Takes a lot of ownership to admit you had been a brainwashed cohort to a major international cult. Is fun now admitting it!
    MacKenzie likes this.
  2. This is NOT OK !!!!

    This is NOT OK !!!! Gold Meritorious Patron

    Boy, do I know where you're coming from!

    I hope you're completely out, in the sense that you're not having to play the fair roads, fair weather game with spouses, family, friends and employers.
    Enthetan likes this.
  3. cakemaker

    cakemaker Patron Meritorious

    Hello djinn,

    Would love to hear what a typical day was like for you - schedule, food, musters, meetings, libs, etc.

    I also heard that crew are not allowed (or discouraged from) to talk to non-Scientologists in town. Are you allowed to go out and walk around and talk to anyone at all?

    How about cell phones, radio and internet?

    Also about how RTC interacts with the crew and on a day to day basis.

    My time there 19870-80's, there were some freedoms compared to what I've heard it became.
    We could go to the malls during libs or have breakfast in town during CSP time, phone home if we wanted, mail was unmonitored.

    Would be great to hear in detail what life is like now.
  4. djinn

    djinn Patron

    Wow cakemaker, that is quite a lot of information.

    For my post I had a cell phone (almost got shot one day when it buzzed whilst pulled over for speeding - different story), and was one of the only people on the base that had the Internet, there was approximately 3 computers outside CMO and Incomm that had internet access, and radios are used in cars (that I was also lucky to have) you needed to have a reason from your post to have one, whereas CMO needed it nearly always, in Treasury (Div 3, I was the only person that had access to any of these items, at one point the Treas Sec had a cell phone, but in a review it was taken away again!)

    Look I can give a brief overview and we can go from their, if you want more info I am happy to give it too you ...

    first muster was like 7:30am, you had to exercise for 30 minutes ... some ran, some walked, some went to hide in their dorms or have a shower, non attendance saw you do an hour at the end of the day to make amends to the group.

    on post by like 9 am ... you had to have had to catch the bus, eat and be at roll call for the building or course room ...

    generally you were on post or studying until lunch (FSO had several lunch times depending on your role and where you worked), at the end of lunch 30 minutes there was another muster, generally with some sort of briefing, held in the mess hall.

    work study again until like 5:30 and dinner, this was a 45 minute break, and you again went back to post, when I did study I tried to take this time.

    official end of the night was 11:15pm (for non tech staff) generally you did not leave at 11:15 but sometime after. Last buses where 1am.

    This was every day, with Wednesday night being the hardest where most non tech rolls did an "all nighter" to secure upstats.

    Friday night we would have graduation, which was a mandatory for staff attendance, and then we would go back to our respective offices and clean the offices to a "white glove" clean, this was enforced by Security with people not allowed to leave until it was done.

    If you were lucky to have a car for your post or friends with someone who lived at the same berthing (hacienda gardens) and you got your cleaning pass, you could slip out and go to Walmart before heading home ... generally only on a Friday as it was the lax day

    On Saturday morning we had CSP, of our berthing, and anyone on LIBs was allowed to miss the muster and go off and do their thing. LIbs is a funny thing tho, you only got it if you where upstat, but you could not take it two weeks in a row ... and sometimes you would be disapproved for it based on some arbitrary, and could only get a half day (the morning off) and then have to report to post in the afternoon ... this thing with that was that you still got Chits etc for not cleaning your berthing to CSP standard clean! You needed to get a pass on your berthing CSP and be upstat to be able to go to the shops to buy what you needed, otherwise you was ethics bait and actively sort out to be corrected!

    if the org was upstat that week there was movies on a Saturday night (and pizza) for upstat staff to attend, put on by the chaplains office. To add a random note in here, if you have ever worked on finance lines, you know it is illegal, a scientology crime, to purchase anything that does not have an approved FP line, yet FP was started Thursday night, and sometimes not approved til Saturday/Sunday. How are you expected to rent a DVD order Pizzas for staff if the FP is not done! Either it was paid for by the chaplain out of his pocket or you committed a finance irregularly that you would have to write up and make amends for net time you got into trouble.

    Cool ... on people ... depending on your roll depends on if you talk to non-scientologists ... I had to speak with non SO people as part of my job, and I was also expected to keep in the PR of the church, not not answer but be aware of what impression I was creating. Basically, I walked around with my head up my arse! well not quite.

    I was responsible for enlightening people and getting books sold etc for scientology, and developed a small group of people that I could sell small things too, that's sort of why when I was busted off post I ended up as a div 6 new courseroom reg.

    Now you where not allowed to speak with enturb sources, people who picketed etc, the LRH reason we were given was not communication is the universal solvent, but more, do not acknowledge it exists, because to acknowledge it is to allow it to exist, that's why most SO members will not even look at a person who is picketing them.

    But really Downtown CW was mostly SO staff and scientologists moving between buildings, there was hardly anything down that way! So you where kept in a bubble, where the only shops around you where created to fulfil the needs of the SO staff and scientologists.

    Calling home was difficult, you needed time and money and time ... my family are in AUS I was in the USA so the time difference was horrendous! when you cold you tried a Saturday night, which was a Sunday morning for me back home, and it was always awkward as you can not really say what is going on and they do not really know what your day is like, and you do not want them to say stuff like come home, because then you could go PTS to them, but you got nothing to talk about, so you start sending mail, speaking on birthdays, then you drop that out as well.

    I was married before I told my parents I was dating someone (dating is such a loose word) it is something I am still making amends for now, and has my mother scared that I will not tell her again when it happens (which it will).

    Now mail is reviewed if it is suspected that it contains info that is risky. Generally a KR has been written on a person form a session to ethics about something and your correspondence is reviewed. if you get too much mail your correspondence is reviewed ... scientology is not a trusting religion ... so any reason is taken up to minimise the personal life of a SO member is done. please understand that this is prevalent across everything, I had a session KR written on me by my wifes auditor, sent to RTC (as she was a exec hostess - served RTC reps their meals etc), on a private matter between us at the start of our marriage.

    Try finding out that happened! Wow! and it was not told to me by my wife or her auditor!

    Lastly, RTC, I had a few run ins with RTC! I still remember several instances where I was absolutely terrified as that was what they were, the closer to David Miscaviage you got, the more you seem to be like him.

    Lets put it this way, RTC only interjected when they needed too, certain people AO Tech Sec, AO Chief MAA, Captains (FSO & FC), Regs etc dealt with the Reps more then staff did, you where to get the hell out of the way when they walked through, stand up in a room if they walked in, etc, execs would flee around in front of them to make sure they had everything they required in the space, if they said anything it was gospel, if someone listening did not like your response, you were in ethics within the hour. They were considered big beings, infallible and extremely dangerous. (at least to me)

    Generally they would request things from CMO, and then you would have the CMO Chief Off, or a regular messenger appear at your office requesting you to do something, and they would not leave until it was done! RTC had their own spaces and all staff (well me in particular) tried to stay the hell away from them! Which is funny as my Ex Wife was their Hostess, and an FYI of our marriage CSW was forwarded to RTC in case they wanted to object!

    To wrap this up, life now is "normal", the dreams and waking up and trying to remember that you blew, have diminished over time. I still have the pangs towards the actual friends I left behind, as well as the belief you have whilst in the SO of working towards a greater purpose, (I had to join up with a NGO to get that one under control).

    Some of the words are different and the way you think is different, people do not know what a "comm cycle" or "nomenclature" means and if they do why the hell are you using it to explain anything? You look at things with two lenses, the SO lens and the real world lens. I heard it spoken in a podcast when in a sales meeting and they explained they were unable to meet targets due to the weather, this is an unacceptable response in the SO, you "make it go right" always. This is so true, but sometimes you do not even know you are not looking at it properly, like that you can have a relationship and a child and that is okay!

    But I had told close friends and now I am coming out in my workplace, that I am an ex cult member, and it helps quiet down the noises and the fear you will be discovered! But the bit I like the most about now, is that I have escaped the SO, I walked away, with nothing! Doing that, I know that I can do it again, and that I can trust myself. The greatest gift scientology gives us, is when we see it for what it really is and decide that we want to turn our backs on it.

    Over to you, what else can I ramble about :)
  5. djinn

    djinn Patron

    I think I just handled half this question in my other response :)

    I wold like to think I am completely out, y current partner (fiancée) knows I was in, knows I have shit to handle, and knows that I will not hard her or our son, she also knows I will harm anyone who does!

    My family and friends know I was in, and I sometimes get a question, but more of the time not!

    Employers ... well not really, only a few know, and then not really ... that's been a grey area for me! I do however listen to the conversation and drop a few words to see if I get a response, as I was scared to work for or with scientologists, did so when first out, and they crazy mofos, they think they have all the answers and generally are the first laid off! whereas me, I like to work!

    But after a while, someone decides to search for your name and the church lovingly stablishes random shit about people on line, and there is a Nathan lord who is in CW with the church, and hey weren't you in CW ... wow coincidence! (Like one of the other managers at work who gets googled every so often by new staff who find out he won a poker tournament in Melbourne once!)

    In the past I no answered the questions, now I have fun and watch for the reaction ... like the time I told a guy I was in CO$ and he asked me 1/2 an hour later if it was a cult and I said yes, and his face dropped to the floor as he was not serious but I was!

    Being out is now fun again.
  6. cakemaker

    cakemaker Patron Meritorious

    What a great write up! Thanks so much.

    It sounds like RTC is much more feared than the CMO. In my day there was no such thing as RTC so commodore's messengers were the ones you stayed out of the way from. When Scientology got its tax exemption from the IRS, it was presented that the RTC was not involved in the day-to-day management of orgs. I take it that that is not the case.

    Interesting that enturb sources are not to be acknowledged. I can think of at least one LRH reference that says lack of an acknowledgement allows a situation to persist.
    Someone had said that there was a local Sea Org issue that said crew should not engage in conversations with non-Scientologists - is that accurate?

    Are there still LRH Comms and Flag Reps?

    Also, could you clarify the bit about radios? Can you listen to a radio station? I worked in Treasury too and we always used to have the local music station on.

    If you can, can you give a glimpse into the stats, both for Flag and for Scn in general, i.e. GI, WDAH's, actual auditors made, etc.?

    How about the IAS? Did you have to deal with them? How does it operate internally in orgs?

    Lastly, what do staff have to say about no SHSBC, no OEC/FEBC, no KTL, day and fdn orgs being combined? Does anyone even question these patently suppressive actions?

    It's really valuable to have a near current report on how things have changed and the new mind set. Glad you're out.
    Thanks again!
  7. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    We do love stories particularly concerning Co$ improprieties

    In your position were you, for instance, pressed to shortchange expenses for the benefit of children?
  8. djinn

    djinn Patron

    There is a little that id not know on the subject, but my understanding as well as hat I have read is that RTC were made of CMO. CMO is also the people who most of the time get taken "uplines" unless you are overly special at something, well that is how it came across, look at Angie Blackenship!

    The thing is that the argument you are raising on RTC being over the day to day operations is really very hard to answer, in most cases they were not over the day to day running, people had posts etc and they had jobs to perform, RTC was not over these lines. But RTC is responsible for "keeping the tech standard" something to that effect, and you can not not be over all the lines if you are only dealing in a LRH org, everything is standard tech, so everything is in their purview.

    And there is a lot of make wrongs used to justify things, "you pulled it in", "you have had to be bypassed" etc, but an RTC Rep said something it was next to LRH.

    Then there was CMO, from what I knew it appeared you had Programs and you had Services, programs would either do an eval or action an eval, and services would be the rest of the Org Board, Dir Comm, Pr Sec, etc.

    The only thing CMO did not appear to have was a Treas Sec, so all finance lines where done through FSO ... and a CMO exec still has a lot of push.

    Finally, CMO was predominantly made up of woman, young woman, usually form Scientology families, RTC seemed to be older individuals and if they had family it was already uplines.

    LRH Comms and Flag Reps still existed, even had the hots for a FR Rep, these terminals did not have much to do with Treasury, so I can not really speak about them, as had little to no work interaction, I can not say at this time what they actually did anymore!

    During my time there was NO local Sea Org issue that said crew should not engage in conversations with non-Scientologists, it was always a view of staff to ensure that the PR was kept in, and due to this shuttles and buses to be used always, but there would have been a security briefing at some point going over the demonstrators and video cameras etc, with a remark not to engage.

    On this, it was common knowledge that enturb sources are not to be acknowledged. You can see this on any YouTube video of protestors in CW and the FLB, especially Sea Org Lane as it is called. The references used to justify this included one where LRH talks to a person with a medical condition, and because he does not accept it to acknowledge it, it does not exist as a reason for the person not to do something. I apologise, possibly remembering that would show the mindset. The squirrel version being, if you do not acknowledge it, then it does not exist to be acknowledge, and if you do acknowledge it it comes into existence and then you have to fully acknowledge it for it to go away, so easier to walk by and move on.

    The SO is great at taking LRH stuff and turning it on itself, like:
    the IAS (no LRH Policy),
    Ideal Orgs (against LRH Policy) ,
    over reg'ing (against LRH Money Tech),
    Regging public towards a bigger auditing package (against Sliding scale policy),
    having people sign wavers on entry etc (no LRH policy),
    command intention (not an LRH word)
    mimeo (written before copiers actually became a cheaper source)
    FSC Network (abandoned LRH policy)
    FSM Commissions (off policy)

    And the list does go on!

    Also, could you clarify the bit about radios? Can you listen to a radio station? I worked in Treasury too and we always used to have the local music station on.

    When did you work in Treasury? do you remember Michelle? Rex? Anna? Pat? Radios can be used whilst I was there, but really only on a Saturday sort of, and not really either, it was seen as a distraction and only if you are upstat, and when in conditions people try to take things away from you, like radios ... anything on enjoyment is slowly taken away from people, they replace listening to your own music on the bus trip home, to buy the congresses and listen to them so as to get more case gain you so and so.

    If you can, can you give a glimpse into the stats, both for Flag and for Scn in general, i.e. GI, WDAH's, actual auditors made, etc.?

    Stats are funny, the stats are recorded on a weekly basis with rewards on a weekly basis, all I can say is what I was able to look at ... the amount of people with active addresses for FSO was reducing, this is not due to the CF etc, this was people who received the Source Mag, nubers had been dropping off each month and getting smaller. Now they would have grabbed them from elsewhere when they got too small, but seeing the contraction, before a handling, is evident it is going down!

    How about the IAS? Did you have to deal with them? How does it operate internally in orgs?

    The IAS, this stuff is criminal, so you know all IAS is non refundable right? IAS was becoming bigger and bigger, as it could go for the larger whales, What I mean by that is that Regs would target and work on a donation from a Whale so as to secure the prestige etc. There was always an IAS night within the maiden voyage nights, and it was to go to if there was no new release for an event.

    But here's the point, it generally stayed on reges lines for mist of the time, anyone dealing with public was expected to either sell something, get an IAS reg, or body route to someone who could. Now as said it generally stayed on reges lines UNTIL an event, and then the org suffered!

    Events are crap for an SO staff member, literally the worst f'ing experience! You have to have nice clothes, and your body is under flux that this is difficult to do, and you have to bring this all into post with you in the morning, change into these and then attend the event and then sell whatever was on offer afterwards, and your division/dept had a quota, (and there was an Org quota to be met), sales targets are enforced, and people are then on phones, trying to drive p the number, it is intense and basically crap! Worse is the bit that Treasury needs to invoice all these, before the thrusday 2pm mark, so they are off post doing this on an all hands basis, when we did the NYE event at Flag, invoicing etc needed to be set up so that once it needed to be reported the next day for tax purposes it was all in the system.

    Lastly, what do staff have to say about no SHSBC, no OEC/FEBC, no KTL, day and fdn orgs being combined? Does anyone even question these patently suppressive actions?

    I was not there for these changes, I think I was out or getting out before it happened. No one questions changes made by int, you are fully invested, as stated you are seen as a Veteran only after two years, people have been in for countless more. But you do not question INT, the fact is that there is always a reference that can override what you are saying, and you are actually not trained that high to be able to speak on all the policies. And "Int is this magically fairy fucking awesome place, and you think, all the problems I have down here will be nothing up at INT as they are all on purpose, clearing the planet, look there is another video on how well we are doing, I just need to stop my CI and buckle down, as it will get harder as that is what happens when you get so close to completing a target, and that's what they are telling me"

    Only once whilst on staff did I hear that the stats for CO$ Tampa where not what was being reported by COB, and I was like, but "someone is going to get it for false reporting that shit!" not that the false report came from COB!

    And as an SO member you are working 16 hours, so the dilettante Day and Fdn staff should be brought together, puts the best people on the past, and they can do something worthwhile for their time, or better still replace themselves and join the SO!

    It's really valuable to have a near current report on how things have changed and the new mind set.

    This may not be 100% true, I have been out for 10 years, most of that time was hiding yes, but still missed a bit, if you are really after a closer view, I would like to send you to this is written by Peter Nyiri, he has some fantastical and true stories, and would be able to give an even better view then me as was at FLB and Freewinds, before he blew! Maybe send him a message and he can post a write up to his site, anything to support Peter would be welcome as well, he is trying to restart as well!

    I am Glad you are out as well, and that more of us are leaving.
  9. djinn

    djinn Patron

    Sorry I do not understand your question: "In your position were you, for instance, pressed to shortchange expenses for the benefit of children?"

    Let me know and I will try to answer this ... but during my time in the SO new children where not allowed in unless approved by CSW to INT, and that all children would be expected to be at sometime a tech page etc and assume staff, and that no new children where allowed and if you did get pregnant, you would be out ethics, and asked to abort, and if you said no, your partner would be asked to divorce you, and you would be asked to divorce your husband, as this meant you could "save" them from your out ethics, and you where out before you came to term.

    If they could get you to separate/divorce, then you would possibly had been persuaded to not put the fathers name on the Birth certificate, as they had no money anyway, so why would you want to bring that sort of issue to the CO$.

    Maybe Shelly miscaviage got preggers and that's why she went into hiding or into forced hiding, as knowing people a forced abortion would send multiple people over the top, and if the kid was born, her only hope of staying with them is for her to stay away and not run!

    Organisationally, the children still in the Cadet org, where under FLB. Hierarchy on the base went FC FSO FLB GOLD BRIDGE CMO RTC, so the cadet org fitted in higher then most staff, to add security to the agency, and to ensure funding. We only dealt with the kids if living out at the same place (this is where you did for EPF), and on the rare occasions that they came into the base (doctors apt, recruitment etc)
  10. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Regarding RTC, CMO, WDC, and the rest : the thing you have to understand is that they were all "cloaking devices": mechanisms designed to enable Hubbard to exert control over orgs, while concealing the true source of orders, in order to shield the guy at the top from responsibility and liability.
  11. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you Djinn. You grasped my question well enough to respond in full.

    Tell me...

    Are you any relation to Bathtub Djinn and if so did Co$ press you to disconnect?
  12. djinn

    djinn Patron

    Unfortunately I feel like that one was lost on me, a little over my head :)

    Chose the name because it is devil (of sorts) but mortal, roaming the lands of man, sort of how I felt after leaving the Church.
  13. djinn

    djinn Patron

    This was not exactly the case, it was more of a way to funnel monies uplines and to keep it safe. Also I believe that it is a way to keep everyone clueless.

    Get this, the FP Policies state to send money a certain portion of money up to int, so you do, it is forwarded onto the next org and they forward it up the chain, until it is now around someone who can control the actions of those around him. NO one has any info where the money ends up .. maybe someone should check the panama papers for it?

    Whilst in FSO we had no idea that the money was funding gold plated dianetics lectures etc etc etc ... we thought we where helping the planet ... and even if we heard a runor that it was happening there would be no way to validate the info.

    But ... and please do not get me mixed up ... I would like to see it all fall ...

    WDC was replaced by RTC, then came in AST and the other money makers (CSI etc), these are controlled by select few, who are not SO members. is it not stated somewhere that COB is not an SO member, per his own advice?

    WDC was made up of a collection of people, each holding a role in moving scientology forward, RTC was formed around a single individual. You have an individual (not source) holding the helm, who sets up shell companies to hold the assets, and you remove any means of correction because it is his divine will. Is F'ed up

    Lastly, there is a lot of talk about paying the staff fair wages, also of correcting its tax exempt status, the thing is that there will be so much money offsite that they will bride a dictator to house the headquarters, and get people to send their donations offshore ... all willing participants in a Nigerian Prince scam.
  14. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    As you may recall Ron notes SP's are notoriously fond of puns.

    In the Roaring Twenties in the land of the dollar bill Prohibition inspired the manufacture of homemade potions frequently mixed in bathtubs and marketed as gin

    You must be a young un. When I was a lad, back during The Boxer Rebellion, "bathtub gin" was a term of common parlance
  15. djinn

    djinn Patron

    LOL ... understood, and yes, remarkably young to not remember the Boxer rebellion ... unless you mean the Rocky movies?

    But on the same note in Australia, we had "bathtub biker speed", a few many years after the boxer rebellion but something I grew up with the knowledge of.

    But both "bathtub biker speed" and "bathtub gin" would had surely seen us routed out of the Sea Org and Scientology well before our departure dates ... considering the additive wormwood (a "psychoactive" substance) is in your gin!