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Ex Hawaii/Riverside Staff

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by pineapple, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. Bob55

    Bob55 Patron

    Hi Scout,
    I feel a bit silly now starting that Kapiolani thread. I was still figuring out this site.

    I too am not sure what Marie saw in Mike Z. When I heard they were dating, I was taken aback for sure.

    Steve was indeed a nice guy. Very enthusiastic and humble.

    Of course my information is very old now, 17 years, but last I heard Edwina an Will were still together. Will was a great guy. We were students together, and he joined staff about the same time I did. We used to hike in the mountains behind Honolulu every weekend for a while.

    I saw Barney a lot while doing the BC. He got a job at a nuclear power plant near LA. He married a girl name Joanie, who was also on the BC. Erin got remarried too, but not sure about Jan. Alliison was working at AO according to Barney. I never saw her. Not sure about Christy. Totally forgot about her.

    Yes, Makaloa St was just a block away from the mission, just off Piikoi. Second apartment on the left.

    Frank and Rene didn't stay together. Frank remarried, and lived in the SF Bay area, running another mission. Their son seemed to stay with him a lot. I never heard from Rene again. Really, I liked Rene, but boy could she fly off the handle! Yikes! Still, she could be very nice too.

    I don't know a lot of other Mission staff that made it to Flag either. Or just don't remember. Lots of Org staff did, and were on lines in LA.

    Totally understand about leaving and friendships. I remember you and Pineapple and always admired what you both were able to do. Life goes on. I don't know about you and Pineapple, but as a CL 6, I get contacted constantly. Still, after 17 years. I just ignore these. Time and distance have made me view the prospect of "clearing the planet" as a reality that is not being pursued by Scn. That is a whole other discussion though.
  2. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    I've figured it out now. More later.
    Bob55 likes this.
  3. Bob55

    Bob55 Patron

    Cool, finally! I found some pictures from my wedding that show some of the Mission staff (Frank, Rene, Anne N. Steve U. Craig L. Marie and Scout, Kevin, Scott and Donna, Barney), and a picture from one of the Los Angeles ex-Hawaii people pick-nicks (mostly org staff) taken probably in the early 1990's. I've put a file online, and can direct you both there if you like. Then I'll take it down. You don't have to send me anything. This is using something called Sway, a part of MS office, kind of like power point, but online.
    pineapple likes this.
  4. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Abbie was only there part-time. He was just filling in for the GO until we got a "real" ED after Walter split. (To this day I don't know exactly what happened there or why.) Abbie was OK. He used to tell us, "Be OT now!" Sort of a cross between scn and Baba Ram Dass.

    @Scout, you'd been around longer than I had when that whole debacle with the GO and Walter leaving happened. Do you know what that was all about? I never did.
    Brad was amazing. The best body-router I ever saw. I remember him looking out the window and pointing out some guy walking on the opposite side of Kapiolani Blvd. and saying, "See that guy over there? I'll bet I can get him in here. You wanna bet?" He'd RUN down the stairs and across the street, we'd see him talking to the guy, and a minute later he'd be bringing him into the mission. Though of course that was only half the battle.
    I thought I knew who you were from the beginning, but some of the details didn't seem right. I didn't remember that you'd been to R'side, and I still don't remember us sharing that room on the roof. But the Japan thing could only be one person.

    IIRC, you told me you got busted for pot while you were there (in Kyoto?) and they held you for a few days, treated you very humanely (no bamboo under the fingernails), and then put you on a plane back to the US. That story made a lasting impression on me.
    Also, driving the van for Employers Overload was an important identifying factor. I seem to remember Marie running the office workers' unit though, not Edwina. I don't remember Edwina working at EO at all. But you must've worked there longer than I did, so maybe this was at a different time?
    Maybe they were waiting for you to route onto the OT levels to tell you you weren't clear? :)

    I trained through perm. IV C/S at Hawaii Org, so I did some FES'es and saw some pretty strange stuff in folders too (though I'm sure you saw far more in the course of doing the BC TWICE). The worst I saw, though, was in some old folders at Honolulu Mission from the late 60's. Though of course I'd heard of "quickie grades," I never knew how bad it was until I saw these folders where the pc went from grade 0 to IV in about an hour. No cogs noted, just "F/N, that's it!" In one case the grade process wasn't even run because the pc F/N'ed on clearing the command. The folders had only 4 or 5 pages of worksheets in them. That shook my faith in scn alot at the time.

    Another strange one was a folder we got from a mission in Connecticut. The pc had a normal-looking L/R, but then instead of going onto the DRD (standard then), they were running some process they called "lock scanning," but it was a process I'd never seen before. As a IV, I'd at least seen all the lower level processes, and this was something I didn't recognize at all. I considered writing to the C/S (who was a VI) and asking what the reference was on this process, but the reg cycle fell through and the pc ended up not getting auditing at Honolulu Mission after all, so I never did. I wish I had, just to satisfy my curiosity.

    More later ...
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  5. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    I'd love to see the pictures. Any chance you could post 'em here? To insert a picture into a post:
    • Right-click the picture
    • Click "copy image address"
    • Paste it into your post (ctrl-V or right-click and choose "paste"). The picture should appear in your post when you do this.
    This usually works for me, but not always. Some pictures seem "protected" against this in some way.
  6. Bob55

    Bob55 Patron

    Lot to comment on, but for now try this link. This will go to a "Sway" page. To navigate use the scroll bar on the right. You can click a picture to make it bigger, but then can see the captions. On the top right there is an small dark box with a white X in it that will return to scroll view (not the X in the very top, that will close the page). These pics were taken by my father. They are old and grainy and I had to fix the color. But it will take you back for sure. Then at the end is a picture I took at an annual Hawaii meet up during the summer in LA.

    copy and paste into a browser:
  7. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Wow, thanks. Great pictures. I'd forgotten what a good-looking bunch of people they all were, for the most part.

    When and where did you and Steph get married? (I see Scott and Donna were there, so this puts it pretty far back, I think.)
  8. Bob55

    Bob55 Patron

    Hey, glad the link worked. That was mid-1978, so 40 years ago. Jeez, no wonder we look so young. The location is Puu Ualakaa State Park on the mountain behind Honolulu. Great view, as you can see.

    Ok, to answer some questions and comments.

    Brad really was amazing. He had to show me how to disseminate. Once we walked up to a young couple getting into their car at Ala Moana. He would say something like "Hey, have you heard about the new place over there where you can learn to communicate?" Or something close. They said something like "no" and he said "Great! Let's go check it out!" and they would just follow along. I watched this incredulous, and thought "how does he do that?" He could do that all day long and could sometimes bring in well over 20 people a day.

    Yes, you remember the story about Kyoto correctly. There is a bit more to it, but I'm surprised I told you, since I almost never bring it up. Maybe because it was still fresh then.

    You could be right about Employers Overload. Edwina did start working there first. She told me they needed a driver. I checked with Barney, who happened to be a friend of Peg Brown. He told me to apply and mentioned me to Peg. At the Hotel street location we mostly handled sending out dock workers and a few office people. The office part grew, and Peg got a new office for it since the dock worker guys were a bit rough around edges. I think Edwina went there, and then it gets vague for me. I worked there about a year and a half and quite to leave for flag.

    Funny you should mention that about getting an R-factor from AO. I got a letter today from AO saying that the Senior C/S had reviewed my case in 2001, and it was OK to continue my grades. Yay.

    I was seeing the same thing you saw in the FES's, but it was in the late '90s. That wasn't supposed to be happening anymore. I showed my sup, and he sort of shrugged and told me to write a cram when I found this and send it to the org where it had happened.
  9. Scout

    Scout Patron

    That is great Bob55. Real trip back. I remember this
    Particular place and the ride up on Tantalus. (I remember you now Bob55 going up Mt Rubidoux with me while we were in Riverside)
    Where the heck is Pineapple in this wedding? Maybe in Riverside?
    These people do look good (although Marie doesn't look too happy with me. Sorry Marie)
    Also don't see Erin Barnes or Brad either.
    Didn't Barney resemble Clint Eastwood in the Dirty Harry period? Boy I miss him too (Barney that is)

    You know it was said we would never find another group like a scn staff in the wog world because of the wonders of the tech and our announced state. That's true, but not for that reason. The challenges brought out our best human qualities.

    Like many ex staff members we are held apart by the church policies. Shame..but thank god for the internet.

    BTW. Don't know why ED Florian actually got canned. GO never gave us a real explanation. But my suspicions were the div2 reg and Florian were obviously gay (yes I couldn't figure out a gay OT) Their personal relationship seemed to ride a rollercoaster, so it made me think they were together, but it wasn't openly expressed. However they left together.
    Know what? Liza knows what really happened ( or knew). Among her many qualities was seeing everything and holding her tongue.

    Hope its ok I saved copies of your wedding. Wanna show my wife. Lot of flared pants in that group huh.
  10. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    I knew Doug H. (the div2 reg) was gay and Florian maybe (although he had a knockout blonde gf, Robin -- remember her?), but he and Doug DIDN'T leave together.

    Walter and Robin split almost immediately after Diana Harris's visit, like the next day. I saw them leaving the mission carrying suitcases. (Did they live there?) Some staff members spoke to them, but I didn't and I never knew what was said. They walked away and that was it.

    Doug stayed around into the R'side period. He went to R'side accompanying a public couple who were sent there as reg particles, i.e. as potential GI.

    Upon arrival in R'side they got assigned Liability. (This happened to me on one of my R'side trips, too. I spent some time working with the Estates crew first thing.) They apparently didn't agree with the condition and after they'd done the required amends per policy (10 hours?) they announced they were leaving, and did. Bent told the Hawaii staff this later when he came to visit.

    Doug returned to Honolulu. John Ruane (who was ED at the time; I forgot about him) took the entire Honolulu Mission staff to Doug's house to "confront" him, i.e. to intimidate him. I went along. John asked Doug if he was coming back to the mission. Doug, who was clearly scared with 15 or so people standing around him, said no, he wasn't coming back. Without saying anything further, we departed. The vibe was that Doug was a DB and had let the group down. This left a really bad taste in my mouth.

    Apparently Doug stayed in scn after that. Someone (Dave Furey?) told me they saw Doug at an event in L.A. and he was apparently doing well.

    I believe Dave F. told me this when he returned to Honolulu after blowing the first time. He stopped off in L.A. before returning. Dave blew again later, of course, and didn't return.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  11. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    I thought my second trip to Riverside was before this, but I may be wrong about that. Or maybe I wasn't there for some other reason or just didn't make it into the picture.

    I think Brad had returned to R'side by then. He was definitely back there during my second trip.

    Marie might just be squinting. Sun in her eyes, or a little near-sighted?
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  12. Scout

    Scout Patron

    Good detail here. Thanks for the correction. Certainly remember Robin. Did Walter and Robin go to r/s and get assigned? Or was is Doug that was assigned?
    Often wondered about Dave F.
    Drive thru his home town on occasion and always think of him. As large as he was he was challenged by locals a lot. He and I were jumped by a group of locals on the Ala Wai. Would have been trouble if we couldn't run Fast. Does running fast over ride the missed with holds that caused the assault?
    Whenever the GO showed up it was no good. Worse yet never a straight answer from them.

    Don't remember confronting Doug with John Ruane but I might have been there too as John was persuasive.Your memory Pineapple is pretty amazing. John was one from our mission that blended in to R/s pretty well. He was also from New Hampshire I think.... Wonder where he went.
    Do you remember Ruane and others from div 2 would buy the used tires stored under mobile homes to resell them. No fun going under mobile homes.
  13. Bob55

    Bob55 Patron

    Hi Scout,
    Glad you liked the pics. Of course it's ok to save them. I figured you might. I know Frank had a camera, as I have a few other pics somewhere from him. But the rest of us, who could even afford film? I do have a couple other photos of the wedding, with groups of people, but taken from a distance, and I can't tell who is who. I was really shocked at the number of Japanese relatives that showed up. I had no idea there was that large of a family. My daughter still stays in touch with some of them I think (she is 35 now!). We used to fly her back and forth to see her grandparents, but they have passed now.

    Yea, the pants are cool. 1978 was during the disco years. So looking like Travolta was big.

    I really don't remember hiking up Mt. Rubidoux with you, but certainly glad we did. Since I grew up in Riverside, and my family had a house on the side of it, I hiked up there a lot growing up. Once I set the side of it on fire with fireworks on a July 4th. Oops.

    I know we had a very strong group at the mission. Common strong purpose, young and didn't know better, and just being together so much were some of the factors for sure. I really have no idea how I, a fairly quiet and reserved person, was able to go out and body route and reg people, sometimes 12 hrs a day, 7 days a week, for a bit over 3 years, and for almost no pay. Of course sometimes I just walked around looking at things wondering why I was doing this.

    I don't know anything about the prior staff. But I heard a lot of stories about the old mission and another center on University Ave. near Manoa campus from all the people I talked to on the street.
    Here's a weird story. One night while Billy R. and I were out disseminating on Kapiolani, a guy was following us. So we turned around and went to talk to him. He immediately jumped into the bushes by a building so we couldn't see him very well. He then started telling us things about our lives that were a little too true. He seemed to know who I was married to, and described her. He knew Billy had been in the Army. We both walked away asking each other, who the f*** was that?
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  14. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Walter and Robin just walked off and were never seen again, as far as I know. I haven't been able to find any evidence of Florian after that. I think he decided he'd had enough scn.

    It was Doug H. and that public couple (don't think I ever knew their names) who went to R'side and got assigned Liability. Putting public people in a lower condition -- esp. when you plan to reg $$ off them -- sounds odd, but that is what Bent told us. These people I think had some contact with scn before this, so they weren't really "raw meat." My guess is they were involved in some out-ethics sit. that R'side felt merited the lower condition. Apparently it backfired.

    I never knew much about that couple. They were in Doug's office with the door closed and Doug was keeping them very much to himself. I think he smelled big money and didn't want anyone else putting enturbo on the lines.
    I don't remember who was there. I'd call John's style "intimidating" rather than persuasive. The whole point of the thing was to make Doug look and feel like shit. I didn't like to see him degraded like that, though I justified it to myself then by thinking it was "for the greater good."
    Yes. It was called "pulling tires." So many people were doing it that after a while they cleaned out all the tires around R'side and had to go farther away to find any. Some R'sider told me he drove to Texas and back pulling tires over the course of a single weekend.
  15. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    I saved 'em too. Thanks again.

    The only pictures I have from that period are mental image pictures. (But I know I'm mocking them up. :))
    That is weird. Must have been someone who'd been around the mission if he knew that stuff about you. A former public or staff member? What's your theory?
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
    Bob55 likes this.
  16. Bob55

    Bob55 Patron

    We had two theories at the time. We didn't recognize the guy at all. If you recall there were times we had quite a few military people on lines. It was easy once you got one guy, to get all his friends from a barracks or ship. The Army guys at Schofield seemed especially easy. They were bored, had money and time, we had young women on course. We thought maybe the military had taken an interest in what we might be doing with their people.

    Two, was that someone had hired a de-programmer to investigate and snatch someone. My mom told me she had thought about it and talked to a group. Around that time Kelly Logan visited her family in Oregon and never returned, so we thought maybe.

    I can't place this event time wise specifically, but mission staff could fluctuate rapidly. There was one week where we had over 40 staff and a ton of students. Riverside sent over their reges and sort of stole the richest students for auditing. Of course the mission didn't get the GI. This began a downturn in the mission overall, from which it never really recovered. Frank insinuated that it was also because he was black, which was one of the reasons he had been sent to Hawaii. Bent supposedly had some difficulty with Frank. Don't know if this is totally true, but Frank felt it was. During the mid 80's I lived in San Jose. Frank lived in the northern part of the SF Bay area. He drove down to my mom's house in Gilroy for lunch one weekend and we talked about the mission days. He had remarried by that time.

    During the early 90's I worked at a court reporting agency that was recording the depositions of Bent during the church's law suit. I had to check the transcription for typos and format it before sending it back to the lawyers. It was interesting reading, though I don't recall any of it now.
  17. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Hmm. If the guy was working for the Army or for a de-programmer, why would he let you know that he knew anything about you? Why not just say, "No, I wasn't following you, you're mistaken."?

    Maybe he was just a nut? There are people who become obsessed with scn, who have had little or no contact with it, but who believe that scn is persecuting them (for no apparent reason), sometimes through the use of "OT powers." People like that show up on this board from time to time. They've never been in scn, don't know any scngsts, but are sure scngsts are following them, fair-gaming them, etc.

    Maybe this guy never even took a course, just spent some time around the mission and observed you and Bill enough to learn a little about you. For whatever reason he thought you were worth following. There are people who weave scn into conspiracy theories involving the Illuminati, satanists, etc. Maybe he was following you to see if he could catch you participating in satanic rituals or boarding a UFO.
    Bob55 likes this.
  18. Bob55

    Bob55 Patron

    Totally right Pineapple. The guy could have just been nutty. Maybe, probably, we just scared him. And you are right, people assign a lot of crazy concepts to Scn, some warranted, others just nutty. But there are a lot of really strange ideas out there, religion, and cultures in general, are full of them. A quick tour of youtube will uncover all the things you mentioned. A few years ago I spent a bit of time watching ex-Scnists videos on youtube. Some were valid complaints and some just bizarre. Trey Lotz in his youtube interviews, (field auditor, OT, Cl VIII), makes a lot of interesting and valid points about why he left. I have not watched any of the Leah Remini shows, but have seen her on various interviews. She has many real points, such as on the policy of disconnection.

    Back to that guy on the sidewalk, we had to stop him because we had the UFO parked around the corner at Ala Moana and didn't want him to see us getting aboard.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  19. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron


    I saw that UFO many times myself. You guys didn't do a very good job of hiding it.

    I believe Trey Lotz dropped by the Honolulu Mission once, during the Florian era. I think I was even introduced to him. I'd been on staff only a very short time and had no idea who he was. He and Walter Florian seemed to know each other. When I saw his picture again years later, I said, "Didn't I meet that guy once?"

    I love Leah Remini's Bensonhurst (Brooklyn) accent.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
    Bob55 likes this.
  20. Bob55

    Bob55 Patron

    Shoot, well Billy did say the restaurant disguise was a bit weak. Notice how the Scn. centers gravitate to Kapiolani?

    Trey Lotz was very well known in the LA area as an established field auditor. I never met him myself. He was sort of what many, like myself, who wanted to become field auditors, aspired to. Interesting that he came by the Hawaii mission. Walter Florian must have been well known at the time.