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For the Rathbun "Believers"

Discussion in 'MartyWorld' started by Mick Wenlock, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    I couldn't agree more. I don't really understand why this is such a contentious issue. Obviously Marty has a lot of explaining to do and I'm sure he's aware that people want answers and there's now even a web site dedicated to that subject. So the ball is in his court on that. It's also possible that there are legal ramifications for what he says and who knows maybe he is talking with law enforcement.

    But that aside, him being who he is or was, it was a pretty serious blow to the cofs for him to to go on camera for the sp times. And the fact that he isn't attacking scn itself or elron means that he will be taken far more seriously by people still in. Causing people to leave IS damage to cofs.
  2. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    I agree, Thrak. But one thing some people have said is that they are worried he wants to head up a revamped CofS. I think that if he didn't communicate in such a way as to suggest that, that he'd still have some detractors, but probably less.
  3. KnightVision

    KnightVision Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes... he may do so...

    When he gets on with it... he may overcome his current condition of 'the asshole who fucked over so many folks'. Until then he is what he is.
  4. lie2meiluvit

    lie2meiluvit Patron with Honors

    OK...I was going to stay out of this because I have no beef with Marty personally but after reading what I just read on his site I had to comment and get rid of the load of crap. While going through the new independants I was reading the Mexican one and I almost spit coffee all over my monitor when I read " THEREFORE STARTING NOW I PUBLICLY ANNOUNCE MY SEPARATION FROM THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY UNTIL IT HAS A SENSIBLE AND DECENT LEADERSHIP THAT RESPECTS ITS FELLOWS.” For some reason that word UNTIL just doesn't sit right in my book. To me it looks like they're setting Marty up to be the new leader. With Marty putting this on his site it tells me he agrees with this and this is his plan. He has his own agenda and has no intention of correcting the wrongs that he has made.
    If DM were to be ousted and Marty put in charge he would of course maintain that tax exempt status. I see nothing wrong with people wanting to do dianetics or even do scientology independantly but I really think the church needs to be dismantled. The only thing I see co$ worshipping is money.If something needs to be learned from the mistakes this organization has made is it was done for the money and in my book this is no religion.
    Then I was reading a comment left :
    Viva Mexico. Speaking of great wives, here’s LRH’s wife:

    “To me, the most important foundation upon which Dianetics and Scientology is built was stated in the First Book—that is, “Man is
    basically good.” I know of no one who believes this as strongly as Ron does. It is my feeling that this alone in times of contemptuous press, financial difficulties, the betrayal of friends—
    times when it seemed that all he had built was crumbling to pieces, kept him going, kept him persisting to his goal of helping MAN.

    In Phoenix after the fall of Wichita, a producer with whom Ron had worked in Hollywood came to see us at our small apartment. He was
    offering Ron what would seem to the ordinary man like ice cream and cake for eternity. After picturing this dream in the clouds, he said
    to Ron, “Now, really, do you think this Dianetics, this research of yours, is worth it?” Ron sat for a very long time—silent, his eyes
    closed. Finally after what had seemed like hours he opened his eyes, and said, “Yes! Yes I do.” After his producer friend left, I asked
    him why he had taken so long to answer. He replied, “I was watching pass before me a parade of all the people I had helped, their
    expression one of hope and faith in the goodness of the future.
    Nothing can be worth more to me than that.”

    And that’s the way he is. His belief in the innate goodness of Man, in being able to bring this and Man’s abilities to the fore continues him in his research. It enables him to communicate to
    anyone despite their physical disability to do so, or any language barrier.

    His preclears are all over the world. The time he has spent processing is too vast to enumerate. Even he does not know the hours; he works and there is no time to him. This used to be very
    disconcerting to me. I remember one time in Spain, I had spent the whole morning shopping in the market and the whole afternoon
    preparing dinner on one oil burner and a charcoal fire. This was a difficult process for one used to supermarkets and a gas range.
    Ron had gone to the park. Dinner time passed. The food got soupy from reheating and the charcoal supply got nil. My patience wilted
    and I went to the park. I found him sitting at a sidewalk cafe, a middle-aged Spaniard with him. He motioned me to sit down and be
    silent. He was processing. The fellow had been in the Russian army, had fought in the battle of Stalingrad and then had been forced into
    servitude in Siberia. His legs had been so badly frozen that they would not bend at the joints. This peglegged walk was to carry him
    through life and to deny him work because of his slowness. After Ron had finished, we invited him home to dinner. He walked naturally
    again. His realization of what had happened to him did not come until he walked to the door to leave. He suddenly stopped and began
    shouting, “I walk—I walk. ” – Mary Sue Hubbard, 1955

    Again, my opinion.
  5. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Hey lie2me,
    I agree that the word "until" indicates that there may be a possibility of going back to the Co$. And I agree that Marty would'nt put it up there if he wasn't ok with that. But I don't see how you've concluded all that other stuff about they're setting up Marty to be the leader, he has no intention of correcting the wrongs that he has made, ect. You might be right about all that stuff (I hope not!) but one really cannot determine all that stuff from that posting.
  6. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    But, you can get a pretty good idea of what Marty thinks by the context, and, the context is Marty's own statements; here, on his blog; in the SPTimes.

    One can also *not* get that idea, either by deliberately ignoring the context or the statements, or because one considers it 'out PR' to draw a logical conclusion given the available 'data'.

  7. lie2meiluvit

    lie2meiluvit Patron with Honors

    If Marty wasn't planning on heading up a leadership position for scientology then he wouldn't have used his site as a kick start for independants. A new site would have been erected for such a purpose with no single name attached. If he didn't want the job he should have chimed in right after that comment and said count me out for that job. Again, actions speak louder than words.
    Also, if Marty wanted to correct his past then I think he would have thrown DM under the bus more than he has. All I see is a cat and mouse game to make DM sweat and maybe motivate DM to resign. If that happens he'll disappear off the face of the earth and to me that isn't good enough for DM. I want DM held accountable for all of his crimes to loyal followers that were hurt so much and also see some closure to people here. I've read so much heartache on this board. For one man to do so much damage is beyond my comprehension and it needs to be rectified. I know that Marty and Rinder did their share and so did a lot of others but for these men to come clean with half a story isn't acceptable. In my book, if they wanted to come clean then they would give the authorities enough to prosecute so this would finally end. I see no good coming from dragging this out.
  8. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Last edited: Oct 7, 2009
  9. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    I wonder how long it will be before DM permanently leaves the US for a country with no extradition agreement. Or maybe he'll live on that silly ship. He must be a very worried little man by now. That would be the big opportunity for a takeover. When he's out of the country I mean.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2012
  10. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Whatever David Miscavige's plans, they've been in place and evolving for at least a decade. I would expect that, somewhere in the world, there is a new 'still secret' Int Base where at least a couple of hundred missing fanatical SO members await his every whim and enough laundered money to keep him and his henchmen in luxury for as long as he wants.

    If he can get the Rathbuns of the Cleared Planet to 'handle' the situation enough that he can merely 'retire' instead of flee... so much the better. As long as the evidence *stays* as-issed.

    That's my bet.

  11. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    I never thought of that but it makes sense to me.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2012
  12. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    As I said somewhere else - I do not think Rathbun is helping and do not think his aims are the same as the aims of critics.

    I have never subscribed to the asinine idea that the enemies of my enemy are my friends.

    I do not believe that Rathbun represents any kind of threat to DM despite some people's excited imaginings and I have said why I think that. The only people I think he has "cred" with are ex Sea org members who were part of Miscavige's regime and then lost out and now live to see him gone so they can go back in and save the day.

    Now having said that I dont think the fighting here between meself and those who think different is going to resolve.

    So with that - good luck to you guys, I hope that rathbun does something other than he has done for his entire Scientology career and that you do see success. Just be careful.
  13. Marty is in it for Marty and Marty alone, the only question that needs to be answered is whether he is flat out crazy like Bill Robertson, or if he's just trying to make some coin by working the suckers with Hubbard's con game.
  14. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    Hi Smilla

    Do you have a sense of snow? :)

    Why do you think DM is a worried little man? The little I understand (lol) but why would you assume he is more worried now than he was before? IN the past years his personal communicator has blown, several of the original messengers have blown - these are all people who know as much or more about Miscavige and his actions as does Rathbun.

    Are you assuming that he is a worried person or do you have some insider info on it?

    I am not trying to be argumentative here - though I probably appear that way alas... but I do think that people automatically assume that somehow DM knows nothing about rathbun or any sort of potential threat. Not very realistic IMHO.

    I thinlk rathbun was weighed and measured and found wanting.
  15. I wonder if anyone else here saw that movie?
  16. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Marty is in it for what every other Scientologist is in it for - nothing less than the Freedom for All Mankind.

    Why you think that Marty is motivated by lesser goals than when you were a Scientologist is the real problem here - and the problem all around.

    Freezoners, Ex-Scientologists, members of Anonymous, Church of Scientologists, and now "Independent Scientologists" all are motivated by their own highest, and most sacred purposes.

    To assume anything else is cynical and destructive. And blind to the true nature of your fellow man.

    Marty is a True Believer - just like you were.

    Were you just trying to sucker people when you were a true-blue Hubbardite Scientologist? Are you just trying to sucker them now?

    Come one, man. Other people live in this world, too. And they derive the same sense of purpose from their lives as you do when you put on your pants every day.

    It is much more productive to work with people, and to allow them the same dignity you allow yourself, than to assign selfishness and evil everywhere you find people not of your own ideology.

    Apparently, you've just traded "SPs" and "Psychs" for "Freezoners" and "Scientologists".

    When will you finally grow up?

    When will we all?
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  17. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    More a 'snow job'

  18. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    I think that Rathbun was weighed and measured and found to have too much evidence to kill and to have too much evidence against himself to be dangerous, unless he's suicidal. Or, something even sillier. Like 'too useful to believe' unless you're stupid.

  19. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    Some would say he is the lesser of two evils.

    I don't know.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2012
  20. Back when I was a "True Believer" I wish there was someone around with a hardbound first edition of Dianetics, to take and beat me over the head with, to knock some sense into me.