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For the Rathbun "Believers"

Discussion in 'MartyWorld' started by Mick Wenlock, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    What are the responsibilities of the Int Base Prison Warden?
  2. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Hip-Hip-Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :happydance:

    Hip-Hip-Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :whistling:

    Hip-Hip-Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :duh:
  3. bts2free

    bts2free Patron with Honors

    That's not a real post title, but from Marty's posts as IG Ethics as well as other RTC posts he held, he was the overseer of the handlings of all the guys who were being held captive over at OGH as well as all of the people on the RPF at Happy valley. There were some people being held at Happy Valley, i.e. Bruce Bromley who had to be kept seperate from both the RPFers and the OGHers. Marty in essence was Int Base Prison Warden due to the fact that this truly was imprisonment and run like a prison.
  4. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    When overseeing these "handlings" was he pretty much JUST wearing the prison warden hat or was he actually helping any of these people?
  5. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    "Can I help you?"


  6. Thalkirst

    Thalkirst Patron with Honors

    IMHO - Marty apparently holds a constant but slight pressure on DM.

    He is clearly not interested in getting Dave prosecuted or getting the FBI all over the Church. That would seriously harm the subject of Scientology itself, and thus his future income. Also, he obviously does not want all the dirt to become known to law enforcement - he himself could wind up in jail as well.

    He probably wants to convince DM to destroy all incriminating evidence (evidence that also incriminates Marty, Rinder etc.), and then resign and disappear with a part of the Church cash reserve.

    And then the possibilities open up for him in the "new" and "reformed" Church, which is "in good hands".
  7. bts2free

    bts2free Patron with Honors

    That depends on what your definition of "help" is. If holding people prisoner so they can be Sec Checked daily for their supposed "crimes" is helping people, sheesh!

    Marty was the top dog of all "Ethics" at the base and even for Scientology internationally for many years. Marty also had his own henchmen being Greg Wilhere (either an equal or just below), Chris Guider (IG MAA, a post just under Marty), Uli Stalli (Internal Security Officer RTC), Nathan Story (IG MAA after Guider was busted), all of the base Secutiry Guards, the base MAAs and their seniors - Dir I&Rs of the base orgs and any auditors in the Qual Div Gold who were qualified to Sec Check. Marty himself sec checked the people being held prisoner who were "high security risks" for DM or Scientology. But Marty being the top dog of "Ethics" ran the internal prison scheme as DM's 2nd in command. DM would most certainly throw Marty under the bus if it ever came down to False Imprisonment charges by claiming he had nothing to do with it. But, Marty was the guy running all of that for DM.
  8. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    That would explain a lot...maybe those weren't blonde moments I was havin'.
  9. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    I'm hoping he will assist the critical movement more and more as time goes on.

    He did talk to the press and the cult HATES that. That can only be good.

    I wasn't suggesting he was more effective than other people, particularly someone like Larry Brennan who is, of course, awesome. I like to think Marty's taking a step in the right direction. I could be wrong.
  10. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

  11. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I hadn't been aware that Marty had been wearing this hat, thank-you for all the info. And you're right that DM would throw Marty under the bus if he was ever accused of false imprisonment. Just like it's been said that those responsible for all the physical abuse at the Int Base are now gone.
  12. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader


    You are NOT going anywhere! Because, I CARE for YOU, and I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!

    Kathy Bates was superb as Annie, the overly-loving but also hyper-obsessed book fan who made sure that the object of her love, writer Paul Sheldon, would NOT LEAVE once he arrived at her home! Great book by Stephen King, and one of the better movie adaptations of a book. For those who haven't seen the movie, Annie is getting ready to "hobble" Paul (played by James Caan) by crushing his ankles with a few heavy swings of the sledge hammer! (because she "loves" him, and to her, he is obviously misguided in his desire to "leave" - he must have "overts", because otherwise, he wouldn't "want to leave" - GASP)
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
  13. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Assuming for the moment that Marty and Davey aren't actually in collusion, which is a reasonable, if not certain assumption, they are both tied to each other in Mutually Assured Destruction.

  14. bts2free

    bts2free Patron with Honors

    It would be interesting to hear Marty's version of the story behind the Int Base prison system which includes OGH and Happy Valley. Will Marty say that it was all based on DM's orders? Was it Marty? Or did he ask YOU for a solution for these "Ethics Particles?"

    Oh yeah, I forgot to add Mike Sutter to the list of your henchmen.

    Anyway, I forsee Marty's explanation something like:

    Marty: "Shelly, what do we do? Dave is acting like a madman and wants me to keep all these guys at OGH and HV, some of them have been out there for years and aren't being handled!"

    Shelley: "I don't know Marty, I've been asking myself the same question. This definitely makes me think he's going Type III." (shrug)

    Marty: "Oh well, orders is orders." (thought bubble) We have to make sure that none of these guys ever spill the beans about what happens here behind the razor wire or Dave will have our heads...
  15. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    While I am enjoying the back and forth I suddenly realized that I actually need to pay some kudos to one particular person.

    Claire Swazey.

    Yep Claire and I have argued about almost everything, and she can drive me to distraction.

    But Claire has way more courage than Marty and his Ilk, she has stood up for what she believes in, she spoke openly on ARS when she was in and got declared for it.

    She has real courage. Maybe you can get some of it to rub off on Rathbun, Claire. I doubt it though.

    Anyway Claire - just for once I wanted to pay some respect to you for your heart and your courage - while disagreeing with you on almost everything else!
  16. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    I really appreciate specifics like this entered into the debate. This thread was becoming so polarized that it was becoming a waste of time to follow. As a former public I don't have much knowledge as to who did what in management. dm is the obvious target because he's so obviously a criminal.
    But maybe others had much more of a role and I appreciate hearing the stories so I can get a better idea as to what was really going on.

    In regards to dm I don't believe he is the source of all the abuse of scn but I believe he's the current source, although he must have help. I cringe when people refer to him as a victim of scientology. Uh, he's the victim of his own evil mind. He is essentially a crime boss who found a little world where he could run things just like he wanted.

    I really don't see any real threat in what Marty is doing. The real die hard scios just aren't going to believe elron was evil overnight. I think Marty is getting the ball rolling on that even if it's not his intention. The thing about the idea of dm as the bad guy is that as people wake up to at least that realization then they have to ask themselves "well how did this happen?". "How did elron not see that this guy was an sp?". And once one stone of the indoc starts to get loose then the rest will come crumbling down before long.

    Of course there will always be a number of die hard followers no matter what. You can lead a horse to water...
  17. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    I see it now, Veda. Worldwide Event. DM gives impassioned speech about all the amazing things achieved under his watch for 3 decades....and how cosmically challenging it was to attempt to wear Ron's "Boots in The Sky". He confesses with well-drilled humility that he had a terrible overt in his quest to do what the Old Man personally trusted him to do (save the Earth)...and that's an overt of omission where he failed to demand personal enhancement time for himself. Yes, he selflessly put "duty" above all else and that is his only overt. But now he will enjoy the 50,000 hours of backlogged "2.5 hours a day" that was missed. The crowd erupts, standing ovation. Tears flow. Cameras pan as parishioners think or say the thought "That's so Theta!" in 232 languages.

    DM pulls the velcrowed tabs of his Sea Org uniform and it "snaps" off revealing the new kicked-back DM wearing bermuda shorts, flip-flops and a festive Hawaiian shirt. Marty is introduced as the new boss. New standing ovation.

    DM and Marty stand uncomfortably close and begin saluting each other.Then Tom Cruise hops on stage and they take turns saluting each other. Wall-sized images of DM and Cruise and Rathburn appear with the words "Loyal Officer" superimposed. A 3 story high titanium-engraved plate is revealed with LRH's photo. The most dedicated Scientologists in world continue saluting one another and Ron's image to thunderous applause.

    After a half-hour ovation, people eventually begin to take their seats (but not before camera-yielding OSA members document the first ones to stop applauding and sit down).

    Marty calmly tells the ten million Scientologists watching him that Ron only wanted for them to be FREE to think FREE and to act FREE. And because of the unprecedented Power stats of Scn worldwide, the severe gradients of Ethics can finally, finally, finally be relaxed after 60 years. Marty screams repeatedly "YOU'RE FREE!!!" The audience is beside itself. In orgs around the planet, spontaneous chants erupt of "THAT'S SO THETA!!"

    Marty assures the 10 million faithful that THIS is all that Ron ever wanted for them. FREEDOM!!! ENDLESS FREEDOM to think or say or do anything!!! But Marty has to cut his speech a little bit short because the fervor is so great that Scientologists begin speaking in tongues, swooning and falling backwards with their eyes rolled up as the power of all this freed-up theta is unleashed.

    Faithful parishioners cry and hug each other screaming "We're FREE!!!! We're FREE!!! Thank Ron almighty, we're FREE AT LAST!!!"

    Just before the event ends an announcement is made that there is a new ten-volume book release. It contains all of the things that Ron says a "Free Being" thinks, says and does.


    Overheard above the admiring gasps of "That's so theta!" a weeping OT VIII confesses: "Now we finally & truly know how to be free just the way Ron wanted!!!"
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
  18. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    ROTFLMAO :roflmao:

    What a vivid and visual image you put there! It made me imagine the whole scenario acted out with professional actors, great dialog, while all the while adding that underlying current of "oh shit, not AGAIN!
  19. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    You are understating Claire's great moments. She was defending the subject of scientology from all comers, sort of including me,
    and doing a Waaaaay better job than OSA, Graham wilson etc who at the time came onto ARS and were blasted out in a week. She did this for a year
    or more and held her own against all comers. She once made a mild comment about not being happy about folders being culled or something like that, and
    then OSA came calling, literally.

    Well we been friends since I started attacked her on this maybe a decade ago. :)
  20. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Whatever else; the differences:

    Claire supported and defended Scientology but, was not aware of much that she supported and defended and, once it became clear to her what was being done *in the name of Scientology* she stopped. She did *not* commit the Crimes of Scientology, although she has a diminished culpability because she did not *try* to find out the truth while she was doing the supporting. But, once faced with the possibility of the criminality of her organization, she did her own investigation until she had a personal certainty of the facts and then took consequent action.

    Compare and contrast:

    Marty Rathbun supported and defended and *acted on behalf* of Scientology at every level, including the commission of crimes for Scientology and despite personal certainty of those crimes at every step of the way. Once he himself became the target of that criminality he removed himself from the attacks, but continues to not only deny his own culpability but the fact *known to him* that crimes are being committed in the name of Scientology. Because, he, along with others *committed* them.

    There's a difference.