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Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by alex, Jan 24, 2008.

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  1. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Ah the creativity I inspire....

  2. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    If you splurge on it, don't forget to wipe up.

  3. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yeah, sure. This is a report from someone who hasn't been on org lines for years and has given up all hope of getting auditing because of witholds from the Mother Church!:melodramatic:

    Did you get regged while you were there?

    Did you get hauled into ethics to have your witholds pulled regarding communicating with us SPs and DBs?

    Your attempt to counter the effective negative publicity your church has been getting by posting a good roads and good weather "report" of a "visit" to an org is pathetically transparent!

    Flunk! Report back to OSA for re-training!
  4. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Oh come on, Zinj [Edit: Whoops. Should be LH!]. I visited Big Blue in 2004. I took some photos:

    I didn't get regged either.

  5. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Wrong 'who' Paul :)

    Besides, I visited the 'Complex' many times, and was *never* regged...

    Lots of other things though :)

  6. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Sorry, Zinji. Force of habit. :)

  7. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    I'll see if I can get into trouble too. :)

    I have a friend in EG who has close ties to Saint Hill. This person recently told me that by their assessment of people going in/out of SH (they see many), PCs are generally doing better post GAT. :omg:

    However, I was also told that there is still a substantial number of PCs who seem to just get auditing and more auditing and never really get anywhere.
    Also, that SH is relatively quiet, and that London, Geneva and Amsterdam orgs are quiet too.

    Will OSA be proud? :confused2:
  8. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Relative to what? SH usually quietens down a lot over winter compared to summer. Does he mean in summer too?

  9. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Relative to its capacity and normal volume.
    Summer is harder to tell, since there is the Maiden Voyage Events, Art fortnight, etc. Also, the regular weddings in the Great Hall (mostly Asian) make the car park an unreliable gauge.
  10. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    OK, thanks.

    I was there 1972-1986; visited in Feb 2002; and again in April or May 2006.

    In both 2002 and 2006 I was surprised how busy it was compared to 1985/6.

  11. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Did you go in the castle?

    When I've been over the last few years I noted that KTL/LOC and Solo course rooms were very quiet. HGCs were ticking over but not busy. BC course room was quiet. Plus a fairly laid-back attitude from staff, not matching what I've heard about staff at Flag for instance.

    They must have high overheads. I should imagine the income from Europeans doing NOTS is all that keeps it afloat. I was amazed how many Europeans go to SH and not Copenhagen because it's "Ron's Home". I'm not that sentimental, but it is nice to come out of course/session into the beautiful grounds and get some space.
  12. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes, I too have visited St Hill since I got declared. That's not the point I was making. I didn't then report to a Scn critics audience about how great St Hill was looking.

    If you can't see that Alex was doing a good roads PR job to attempt to counter our delight at the critical press Scn is getting, frankly, that's your eysight, not mine.

    If people can't see Alex's blatent, clumsy attempt to give the impression that all this good bad-news in the media is having no impact on Scn taking over the planet, then that is their decision to not see it.

    Scientology wants to blinker the world so that it sleepwalks into their control and Scn wants to silence us. We know that, but sometimes fail to see when they are attempting to do so.

    Alex is working on this project, in my opinion whether or not he or she is GO/OSA. And I will call it so when I see it. This is the global ambition of Scn and I will expose it whenever I can.
  13. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Could you let go?
  14. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I toured around and spoke to some people I knew in 2002, but not in 2005. Yes, definitely laid-back compared to LA, but I didn't think that was an outpoint. :)

    I was a letter reg at SH when LRH ED 284 (price increases) came out. A huge number of EU public paid SH for OT levels especially, as it was super-cheap then. 12 1/2 hours cost £75; OT1-7 package £1,275 etc. Many of these were new public, hadn't been to SH before. Starting around that time SH sent out tours to EU, especially Germany and Switzerland. These were sometimes call-in tours, sometimes reg tours. AOSHEU wasn't too happy about it, then Int Mgmt decided that it was FINE for AOSHUK to tromp all over Europe regging EU public for SH. Quite honestly, SH couldn't survive on UK public alone, especially after AOSH ANZO opened up.

    So SH went bigtime into promoting and delivering to EU. The Addresso Officer even went on Addresso tours, carrying a policy letter saying that all orgs had to send their mailing lists to SH. That PL was when SH was the only higher org, of course, but he still managed to pick up several mailing lists from EU orgs.

    I don't blame the EU people, of course. SH is a gorgeous place to study and get audited. The last time I visited it was especially gorgeous, flowers everywhere. Here's a photo of Terril and me (and a US FZ friend) outside the castle:

  15. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    could you *not* pick up trash in a public place?

    Well, sure. But, how 'enlightened' is that?

  16. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    What I would truly like to see happen Lionheart, is the Pilots points of reform, or the ones Alan Walters came up with at flag, instituted.

    I would like for scientology to be something people came to on their own.

    I would like there to be places where non scientologists could go and reasonably trained scientologists would sit and listen to whatever they had to say, no charge, ($), no meter, maybe some simple processes. That would truly fulfill the intent of "volunteer ministers" in a way no other church could.

    I would love it, if the scientology bridge linked the training side to the level of auditing one was allowed to receive.

    I would love it if the culture of the church was not so fanatical as to be out reality to so many. Disconnection a rarely used last resort. SP's considered anoyances rather than evil, etc.

    If that a project?

    I am admittedly a scientologist, not ex.

    All I am blantently and clumsily attempting to forward is my personal thoughts.

  17. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Besides creating annoyance, that always gets an interesting response. :D

  18. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Handling truth is a touchy business also. You don't have to tell everything you know — that would jam the comm line too. Tell an acceptable truth. … So PR becomes the technique of communicating an acceptable truth — and which will attain the desirable result.

    -L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL 13 August 1970 Issue II PR Series 2

  19. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think maybe it is time for Lionheart to fade away. :yes:

    I've watched Scn's cult grow steadily and largely unopposed since 1967, despite knowing how manipulative and deceitful they are. For 10+ of those 30 years I contributed to this growth. It has been a long, long time.

    The time has come for it to stop and I will not stand silent while their covert games still get played out. I will not contribute to the abusive behaviour that Hubbard created, by letting GO/OSA ops sucker more poor devils into their grasp.

    At this time of unprecedented success in exposing the CofS cult's abuses, it seems pointless debating with other critics whether somebody is running a GO/OSA op on us. What a stupid thing for us to do! :duh:

    The GO/OSA want us to argue with each other and lose focus. I'm disappointed when I see us fall into their trap. I'm not interested in wasting my time playing their game for them. I know how the GO/OSA act and have always acted. They are poor deluded fools as I was once. But now it stops! Their time is up!

    Alex, recently has posted as if the CofS is the defender of free speech! :melodramatic: :melodramatic: :melodramatic: And as if their morale and presumabably their expansion is unaffected by the storm of public criticsm. Oh, yeah, sure, Alex we believe you.

    I know Alex, I too was once Alex. I understand him/her and the Scn complacent arrogance

    I'm not going to argue with members of ESMB about what is a blindingly obvious GO/OSA campaign.

    Visit Alex's profile, view his/her posts. Notice how dispersing they are, how they set critic against critic, how he/she doesn't answer sensible critical questions but dodges them. Notice his/her black ops against Zinj and Veda.

    Vinaire, I decided quite a while ago that debating with you is a complete waste of time. I'm not interested in playing games with you.

    Yes it is time for Lionheart to fade away off ESMB. :yes:

    Maybe I helped some people, maybe I annoyed a few during my time here. I hope I helped the right ones! :D
  20. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Ok, good luck. Thanks for a fairly straightforward reply! :thumbsup: I hope while you do that you do not also play Hubbard's and Scientology's more destructive games.