What's new

For Those Who Can't Stand Criticism

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
You're the only one who can answer this for yourself, honey.

We each have to discover our own answer and tolerance level for evaluating and incorporating honest criticism about our selves and our choices, no matter from whence it comes.

If one were raised with a lot of unfair or overly harsh criticism (or flat out verbal/emotional abuse, as many people are), one might be overly sensitive or rejecting of any and all criticism, even when it was meant for one's good.

One might have sought out a highly structured lifestyle where praise and criticism was seemingly set forth according to clear guidelines and a fairly ridge system of rules or "ethics". Such a system might feel safe, and "meaningful" to such a person. For them, it might take more courage and be more painful to hear free-flowing criticism (natter and entheta) and put it in it's perspective in their life. Playing with others who mostly care about you might help to make this adjustment slightly easier.

Do you think perhaps this is what Marty might be doing, in part, with his blog, and with controlling to the extreme who can post what on it? (A little editing for clarity and decency is common sense, when you are in charge.) It seems dysfunctional to me, to consistently screen out those who mightily disagree with you or your viewpoints.

Or even what Ron and the early pioneers of Dianetics and Scientology might have been doing in co-creating such a systematized lifestyle, with so little actual freedom in it, while promoting it as "the way to Total Freedom"?

Was it dysfunctional of you Alanzo, back in the day, to routinely disregard those friends who had warnings and criticisms for you regarding Scientology and your level of involvement with it, the extent to which you allowed it to pervade and take over your life?

Do you think those COS loyalists who are disregarding the truth about the history and current scene of their religion because it is "critical" or comes from those that have been labeled "Critics" is functional (sane and healthy) behavior?

Each of us has our own internal compass that points us toward "meaningful", it is whatever it means to us as individuals. For some, it may be more painful to follow this independently, and easier to follow someone else's map. This is how I understand that many become trapped by other's "systems" with rigid ideologies and rules, whether cults, religions, political parties, multi-level marketing schemes, business models, whatever.

Humans are herd, or pack animals, after all. We are hard-wired to both lead, and follow. I see this so clearly, this is why I don't blame anyone for getting or staying involved with Scientology...up to the point where it clearly becomes ABUSIVE and DESTRUCTIVE to your life and to others. Reality check! :)

Belonging to a group one admires (however falsely), and being part of a purpose greater than self, which gives life greater meaning, is a powerful hook. As Good Twin has said, it can be like an addiction.

I am living a meaningful life, and very grateful to be doing so! :happydance:.
I have never needed Scientology to help me with this, and I frankly don't feel that anyone else does either. That's the honest truth, as I see it.

Jeez, for a rhetorical question you sure did give a good answer!
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
If you had a choice between 2 things:

1. A jackpot of 1 million dollars

2. The chance to have a person that you don't particularly like accurately tell you everything wrong with you

Which would you choose?

Which would be more valuable?

It's a ridiculous and meaningless (was gonna say stupid, but...) premise.
 
It's a ridiculous and meaningless (was gonna say stupid, but...) premise.

It is only stupid, ridiculous or meaningless if you don't let it be thought provoking, which is the point of such simplistic questions... :)

Is this your way of saying that you have no thoughts to contribute to the conversation?

If so, that's o.k....but why comment on it unless you are just trolling the thread? :confused2:

Maybe you do have some feelings to share with us on the subject?

Can I invite you to further share your thoughts on criticism, both giving and getting it? What useful purpose can it serve for us? How is it potentially useful or destructive? How should we manage it? Just ignore or deny it and call it "stupid"?

What makes your life meaningful to you, Olska? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts and feelings.

Actually, the thought of getting a million dollars does not seem all that outlandish here in America...where we are collectively as a society both greedy, money-grubbing and highly creative and entrepreneurial, and have a reputation for being high-rollers! :eyeroll: Not saying I like it, it's just my perception of our collective character. Sigh.

Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving to everybody who may have to deal with some family or group criticism at the Thanksgiving Celebration! Courage! :thumbsup:
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
FREE TIBET!!!

Good point about Tibetan knowledge, values and culture going global as a survival mechanism after vicious attempts at systematic suppression, Alanzo.
To all the lurkers still in, you CAN free yourself!

I wonder how pervasive the inherent acquiescence to authority spouted by the Dalai Lama would be were it not for all his friends.

Sure, lets free Tibet, but keep the Dalai Lama as far away from any real power as possible. Religion and politics is a toxic brew regardless of the source of the component parts.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
An ad hom re Alanzo

I've been meaning to say this for a while, and Alanzo, you're going to have to grin and bear it.

Ok, here goes.

Alanzo's posts are literate, cogent and often very wittily phrased. Now, for the ad hom:

Alanzo is really bright and I like him.

So there!!
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
If you're the kind of person who ever would choose option 2 over a million bucks, or even if you're the kind of person that would actually benefit from learning what's wrong with you, then the odds are there isn't all that much wrong with you.

And you probably already have a fair idea what it is, anyway. Hearing it confirmed might be useful, but you could probably do more good with the money.

Hence, no-one should choose option 2.

Not at a million, anyway. Maybe somewhere around $1000 bucks it becomes a toss-up.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
It is only stupid, ridiculous or meaningless if you don't let it be thought provoking, which is the point of such simplistic questions... :)

Is this your way of saying that you have no thoughts to contribute to the conversation?

Nope.

If so, that's o.k....but why comment on it unless you are just trolling the thread? :confused2:

Because, as I already stated, I think it's a ridiculous and meaningless premise.

(Why you would consider that "trolling the thread," I have no idea.)

...
What useful purpose can [criticism] serve for us? How is it potentially useful or destructive? How should we manage it? Just ignore or deny it and call it "stupid"?

Going by the original post, that wasn't the subject of the thread; but if that's what you want to discuss, go ahead -- threads commonly veer off into discussions sometimes totally unrelated to the original post, and that's fine by me. However, my post was a response to the original post.

Regarding what you wrote above, that all depends on who (what makes them qualified to offer criticism?) is doing the criticizing and on the context -- the setting in which you find that which is being criticized. "Wrong" is a judgment based on context -- "wrong" in one situation or set of circumstances is "right" in another. "Accurate" could be anyone's guess -- just ask 20 people who witnessed the same accident.

From Wikipedia: (which I use because it's handy...)

"Criticism is the judgement of the merits and faults of the work or actions of one individual by another (the critic). To criticise does not necessarily imply to find fault, but the word is often taken to mean the simple expression of prejudice or disapproval.

Another meaning of criticism is the study, evaluation, and interpretation of literature, social movements, film, arts, and similar objects and events. The goal of this type of criticism is to understand the work or event more thoroughly."

What makes your life meaningful to you, Olska? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts and feelings.

Lots of things, and maybe I'll share those with you another time, but not today.

Actually, the thought of getting a million dollars does not seem all that outlandish here in America...where we are collectively as a society both greedy, money-grubbing and highly creative and entrepreneurial, and have a reputation for being high-rollers! :eyeroll: Not saying I like it, it's just my perception of our collective character. Sigh.

Part of why I think the original premise is ridiculous and meaningless -- even (yes!) STUPID -- is that OF COURSE it will (predictably, as we've seen) inspire many readers to jump to the conclusion that anyone who would choose the million dollars rather than the amazing and wonderful, lifetime opportunity of being raked over the coals of criticism by someone they don't like is a greedy, money-grubbing wannabe high-roller who can't stand criticism and (as the thread progressed...) wouldn't know a "meaningful life" if it crashed through their front door.

Criticism is probably the most abundant "commodity" in our world -- just look at how much of it freely flows every day across this forum! If I want to find out what's "wrong" with me, I only have to read this board for a few days and I can find an enormous list of characteristics in myself that are in dire need of improvement.

But where I come from, windfalls of $million are really, really rare.

I'd take the million and use it to help forward my idea of a "meaningful life;" and I shall leave you all now to speculate on what you think that might mean to me ... or not.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
I personally don't like to stand for criticism, I usually take a seat and make sure I'm comfortable before it hits me.
I accept criticism in the spirit with which it is given and, like all of us here, I'm already living a meaningful life.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Alanzo, where is my million dollars? Check your PMs for my mailing address.

Thank you,
TG1
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Vinaire posted awhile back .....

""On the other thread, I put the text of only one essay, but it is a set of 5 essays, which is now linked in the Op.

I think they are very good, and they require a serious reading. I don't think anybody here has read them seriously because I haven't heard any comment or discussion on the content of those essays.

All I get is a discouragement (like from you) and ridicule. To me that is either jealousy, or an inability to read and evaluate, or just fixedly held ideas of one's own.

Complete lack of a discussion and rational comments is remarkable. I am coming to think that there are no peers here. '
"

It couldn't possible be that you happen to be the only one interested in what you want to discuss.... could it?

It really absolutely doesn't mean there are no peers here.

Let me give you a few examples :

1) Kindergarden kid had discovered piling up sand and peeing on it he can fashion sandcastles. He wants to discuss this " topic " and get a "scientific peer review " from a group of kids who just happened to be on the way back from the beach where they watched a state champion sandcastle building contest.

Question : Do you see the inate politeness of the older kids ignoring the peeing kid in the sandbox.

2) Someone wants to discuss the lift difference in the fabric covered J3 Cub wing and the aluminum clad hersey bar wing of an early Cherokee - and sort of skip the fact they are different wing designs.

Question : Is this a conversation you'd like to have in the given parameters - particularly if you had to read a bunch of essays on it first ?

3) What about I start a thread on local river rocks and how they relate to the universal truths of life - and have a set of essays as required reading to enter the discussion of.
....And, by God, remember it is MY topic on MY thread and * I * am the MASTER of it.
.....Oh, and I will endless post to MY thread to keep it the top ten so everybody who comes on the board will have to see it.

But, most interesting, is you say if there was a peer to you here they would be engaging with you post after post. Read above... please.
 
Last edited:

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Alanzo, where is my million dollars? Check your PMs for my mailing address.

Thank you,
TG1

I'm afraid that Choice Number 1 was always the wrong answer.

So no one gets a million dollar jackpot.

Number 2, however, is always available in abundance here on ESMB.

Splurge on it!
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Late in the game but I'll play (power be gone for a couple o' days), OP, erm, thats sooo hard..... GIMME DA MONEY! I don't give a shit what people say about me anyhow (being honest in my own heart), and a couple of bucks would be fine by me! :dance: My IRL friends are honestly brutally honest, if they weren't I would not remain close to 'em!
:woohoo:

:woohoo:

So, is der a prize or anything? :D
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Yes, that is true. I learn more everyday from the the ridicule I face on ESMB. It is fantastic.

I would not call it criticism though. Critcism implies a bit of understanding of what one is criticizing.

.

I'm sorry you feel ridiculed. I suspect you are taking things way too seriously. I read a few of your posts here and it seems like you are upset because you think you have no peers here.

Understand that what interests you is not necessarily the interest of another. For example, I have a son. He loves video games. I have no interest in them. He persists in trying to engage me in his video gme world by trying to make me look at what he is looking at that he finds significant or fun and well, after a while, after 2 or 3 times of being verbally cohersed to look at something which I don't have any interest in, I get tired of being sucked into it and no amount of good TRs works because this is his special interest. His obsession. It's too easy to get frustrated with him because he just does not get that I am not interested. He does not see nor care about my point of view on this and no matter how much attention I give, he always wants more ( when his friends aren't around to get it from them).

You are a very smart man. Your subject of interest is not always the subject of others. It might be hard to correlate this to what you have been seeking peers for. Just because you are are passionate about it does not mean other's lack of interest is wrong. That's a scientology hangover if that is the case here. The fact is that if you keep persisting with those who are not interested, you'll eventually get flack. It's the nature of the beast.
 
Top