What's new

Freewinds Asbestos discovered ..finally

Cavalier

Patron
Scientology Yacht Sealed and Docked in Curacao
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-17221

Scientology's "cruise ship", the Freewinds has been sealed and docked by officials in Curacao. It is known that all Scientology members who have reached higher OT levels have spent some time on the yacht, and have thus been exposed to the carcinogen. Both local and Nederlands-based investigators and government officials are investigating.

An affidavit filed in 2001 by Lawrence Woodcraft, a former Scientologist and trained architect, claims that Woodcraft encountered the fibrous minerals while working on the ship in 1987, and promptly informed Scientology leaders. For over 21 years, Scientology has knowingly exposed passengers to what is generally considered the most lethal form of asbestos. The National Toxicology Program classifies asbestos as a known human carcinogen. The EPA has also classified asbestos as a human carcinogen. The use of asbestos in new construction projects has been banned for health and safety reasons in many developed countries, including all 27 member states of the European Union, Australia, Japan, and New Zealand.

The Daily Herald, which is based in Philipsburg, St. Maarten, reports:

"During refurbishing and reparatory work, which involved removing the ceiling and panelling on cruise ship Freewinds, blue asbestos was released and ended up in the ventilation system. Freewinds' captain did not report this when it's own personnel were working on the ship on the Mathey warf in Otrobanda. The Curacao Drydock Company (CDM), where the ship was taken for reparatory work on the hull, heard from the surveyor that there may be asbestos on the ship. The captain acknowledged the incident and said that after the incident Freewinds had some investigation done. Keeping the incident quiet became more noticeable when it turned out that the 40-year-old ship contatined blue asbestos.

The question is whether or not the blue asbestos dust, which can cause cancer, can be removed from the ship. The CDM has stopped all work on the ship. The ship was sealed and isolated and experts will investigate and measure the presence of asbestos dust in the hull and surrounding areas. Commissioners Eugene Rhuggenaath (Economic Affairs) and Humphrey Davelaar (Public Health) said on Friday.

CDM interim director Frank Esser, deputy head of the Department of Labour Affairs Christiene van der Biezen were accompanied by two inspectors and head of the health Department Tico Ras. Samples taken from the panelling last week by inspectors that were sent to the Netherlands showed that they contained significant amounts of blue asbestos. After an extraordinary meeting, the Executive Council decided to inform the public in general about the incident to avoid remours and panic.
The CDM personnel were also informed via the media because it was impossible to gather all the workers Friday evening to personally give them the information."

If you have been exposed, go to your family MD and tell them that you know that you have been exposed to blue asbestos. At a minimum, a lung series is in order. In general, anyone exposed is now in the high risk group for cancer. In the US, the American Cancer Society also performs screening tests. More information can be found at American Cancer Society :: Information and Resources for Cancer: Breast, Colon, Prostate, Lung and Other Forms. Support and resources for those diagnosed can be found here: Support for Mesothelioma Patients

For the past three months, Scientology's long-time critics, including Mr. Woodcraft, have been joined by the loosely-affiliated group of internet activists known as Anonymous. While Anonymous has no spokespersons, one person confirmed to be part of the "group" had the following to say in response to this news:

"While we believe every person has the right to hold whatever beliefs they prefer, that right does not grant Scientology freedom to knowingly expose thousands of people to extremely dangerous substances without informing them of the danger."

Thousands world-wide have taken their protests to the street on a monthly basis. The next protest is scheduled for May 10.

Yeah, sorry this was so sloppily written. Copypasta'd from Word doc & cut off the first sentence; didn't notice until after I hit "submit". Would have read a lot better with the intended lead. Should have started: Allegations are flying that the Church of Scientology may have knowingly exposed thousands of people to asbestos, a known carcinogen, over the past 21 years.
 

Andrew

Patron with Honors
Fair enough. Does the promo also say, "Due to our unprecedented expansion...."? :)

Or for how long?

Paul

Sorry, I didn't read the actual article just the headlines and the pictures.

It arrived on bin (aka trash) night so it just went into the recycling. I'm surprised it hasn't been discussed here earlier it takes at least two weeks for their mail to arrive to me Australia I thought it would have been old news.

I swear the US postal service will be seriously pissed off if the CoS goes down. It would almost be a full time job for someone to read through all of the promotional material that arrives each week at my house!
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
As Schindler says at the end of the movie, I wish I could have saved more.
When I discovered the asbestos I brought it to the attention of all the top execs and met a brick wall. I let myself be pursuaded that Hubbard was the supreme authority on all things "ship" and cancer. But I knew in my heart that it was all bullsh*t.

When I posted my affidavit online in 2001, I felt the need to warn Scientologist not to go to the ship. I only hope that the message got through to some. Whatever else happened, I thank Bob Minton for helping me post what was intended to be a giant warning and an act of humanity.

Looking back I at least felt that I kept some of my mind intact when all Sea Org members around me were losing theirs. A deadly toxin is discovered and you not only want to cover up the damage done so far, but you want to continue bringing the public for another 20 years and expose them, until finally the government of a small Caribean country shuts you down.

Unbelievable, but also Scientology as usual.

I stand by everything I said in my declaration as the absolute truth, blow by blow. It is a vindication of the suppresive person that Tom Cruise hoped would be history one day. We do have our uses, and maybe, if he goes for a medical checkup, I might have helped save his butt.

Welcome, Lawrence. And thank you for what you were able to make happen. I know it made a difference in two cases in particular.

I know what you mean about hitting your head against a brick wall. I've worked Scientology Renos, and the attitude if you try to put any ethics in is "make it go right" or "you are wrong and you have counter-intention". Never is any care taken for the persons working in the environment.
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
I was reading that if asbestos is enclosed it's OK and a check a few years ago said it was OK. It's probably the renovations that brought this about. I'm doing some more research.

Nonfriable (solid, not crumbling) asbestos is okay if sealed up and undisturbed - like asbestos floor tile or siding - I'd love to give you encouragement, but sealed up doesn't mean covered lightly by paneling or metal suspended ceiling. It means completely enclosed either in a substantial barrier or beneath a coating. And I'm pretty sure that blue asbestos in this form is friable, meaning it will distribute in air and migrate. And you aren't supposed to cover that stuff, you have to remove it.

Most older ships with this stuff were scrapped, in one case the ship wasn't worth salvage for scrap, they sunk it in deep water. This is the case of the church making a serious financial error in purchasing a worthless ship (I'm sure they got a good price). Because of the policies and the inability to make a correct decision on the part of Sea Org personnel, the danger was literally covered up. Can you imagine being the I/C of this original renovation? "Sir we can't renovate the ship because its a friggin death trap..." Sadly it could never happen.
 

NonScio

Patron Meritorious
Nonfriable (solid, not crumbling) asbestos is okay if sealed up and undisturbed - like asbestos floor tile or siding - I'd love to give you encouragement, but sealed up doesn't mean covered lightly by paneling or metal suspended ceiling. It means completely enclosed either in a substantial barrier or beneath a coating. And I'm pretty sure that blue asbestos in this form is friable, meaning it will distribute in air and migrate. And you aren't supposed to cover that stuff, you have to remove it.

Most older ships with this stuff were scrapped, in one case the ship wasn't worth salvage for scrap, they sunk it in deep water. This is the case of the church making a serious financial error in purchasing a worthless ship (I'm sure they got a good price). Because of the policies and the inability to make a correct decision on the part of Sea Org personnel, the danger was literally covered up. Can you imagine being the I/C of this original renovation? "Sir we can't renovate the ship because its a friggin death trap..." Sadly it could never happen.

I think they paid $11 million for the ship. That seems like a very low price
for a ship of that size. I wonder how much the ship was worth as scrap
at the time. I would imagine that the seller informed Scientology of
the asbestos presence...to cover themselves for the legal liability
if nothing else.

Now that its been quarantined in drydock, all the legal documentation
of the asbestos on the ship will be abailiable. The lawyers will
have a slam dunk on this one. Latham and Watkins, are you ready
for this one? (I wonder if they [Latham and Watkins] assisted
in the cover up of this over the past 20 years). This is going
to be a bit more complicated than sending the threatening
notes to teenage annonymous members!

They should have sunk the death trap while they had the chance.
Oh well, the Navy always needs target practice. Are there any
Sea Org members willing to crew the ship to sail it out to the
firing range?
 

Tom of Helatrobus

Patron Meritorious
They should have sunk the death trap while they had the chance.
Oh well, the Navy always needs target practice. Are there any
Sea Org members willing to crew the ship to sail it out to the
firing range?

I'm sure, in a metaphorical sense, that many Sea Org members will be going down with the Freewinds.

As a Navy Veteran I can tell you the Freewinds would make GREAT target practice. If the Sea Org sold it to the Navy for scrape, I would love to be there when they blew it to bits. I would open up on it with 3" guns first and then finish it off with a couple of Harpon ship to ship missles. That would be totally freakin' sweet!
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
needed and wanted ?

Cancer on the Lido Deck? Scientology Responds

Scientology officials insist its S.S. Asbestos will sail again.

Reports of cancer-causing particles aboard the 40-year-old Scientology cruise ship and floating fortress for the church's secret OT VIII training floated around yesterday after a report by a St. Martins newspaper that the ship was sealed by authorities on the island of Curacao. Perhaps most interesting was the old interview with the ship's architect Lawrence Woodcraft, originally aired by Xenu TV and reposted by the anti-Scientology Lisa McPherson Trust and others. Woodcraft recalls in a 2001 sworn statement discovering the blue asbestos in the walls of the cabin of the boat. If the report and Woodcraft's claims that he notified his bosses of the asbestos as far back as 1987, it would mean that the ship's operators have been potentially exposing people to the deadliest kind of asbestos for 21 years.

But a spokesperson for Scientology tells Radar the ship has not been locked up and is undergoing a planned overhaul, which will be finished on schedule.

The next cruise is scheduled for Thursday, May 8. "Inspections done on April 15, 2008 and April 28, 2008 again confirmed that the air quality is safe, in accordance with the standards set by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the U.S. Clean Air Act," church spokesman tells Radar via e-mail. The full e-mail is below.

First, however, it needs saying that the church has issued misleading, though technically true statements about its actions in the past. When Radar last asked about the church hand-delivering legal threats to members of Scientology antagonists Anonymous, the spokeswoman below denied that lawyers were delivering legal threats. But someone representing the firms hired by the church was delivering DVDs and legal letters. This time, Radar e-mailed the spokeswoman as soon as we learned of the report of the Freewinds being locked up. Karin Pouw objected to the lack of time we gave her to respond and to the nature of the questions. She went on to say that Freewinds inspects its air quality but does not say government authorities performed these inspectors. We've asked for clarification and proof of the inspection results and will report on the response.


Tyler Gray
Radar Magazine
Email: [email protected]

Dear Mr. Gray, Your questions contained allegations that are offensive and plain wrong. Further, you provided a one-hour deadline to answer your questions--a deadline which passed before your questions were even received by us.
_______________

The Freewinds regularly inspects the air quality on board and always meets or exceeds US standards. Inspections done on April 15, 2008 and April 28, 2008 again confirmed that the air quality is safe, in accordance with the standards set by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the U.S. Clean Air Act.

The Freewinds is currently undergoing a complete refit, including renovations of all cabins and accommodations facilities as well as upgrading all navigational and nautical safety equipment to meet or exceed future maritime codes scheduled for implementation in the year 2010.

The true and accurate story is that the Freewinds is being restored to better than new condition and no expense has ever been spared in meeting the highest safety standards of any seagoing vessel.

The Captain of the Freewinds is a highly respected officer who is known for his competence and for his dedication to safety at sea. He and the Freewinds have received numerous commendations from port authorities and other ships for the help they extended to the islands in ports of call, as well as the training of maritime students in maritime safety for which the Freewinds is renowned.

The Freewinds will be completing its refit on schedule.

Regards,

Karin Pouw

Wouldn't it be great to get someone established on location in Curacao so we could get live info on the situation - maybe even stream some live internet video and interviews to DA this Cof$ denial ?

Anonymous - moar caek ? It would be very geeky ! :happydance:
 

Lawrence

Patron
Nonfriable (solid, not crumbling) asbestos is okay if sealed up and undisturbed - like asbestos floor tile or siding - I'd love to give you encouragement, but sealed up doesn't mean covered lightly by paneling or metal suspended ceiling. It means completely enclosed either in a substantial barrier or beneath a coating. And I'm pretty sure that blue asbestos in this form is friable, meaning it will distribute in air and migrate. And you aren't supposed to cover that stuff, you have to remove it.

Most older ships with this stuff were scrapped, in one case the ship wasn't worth salvage for scrap, they sunk it in deep water. This is the case of the church making a serious financial error in purchasing a worthless ship (I'm sure they got a good price). Because of the policies and the inability to make a correct decision on the part of Sea Org personnel, the danger was literally covered up. Can you imagine being the I/C of this original renovation? "Sir we can't renovate the ship because its a friggin death trap..." Sadly it could never happen.


If you imagine the long passageways of the freewinds running the full length of the ship and giving access to the cabins and other rooms, at every deck level. Above your head you have ceiling tiles in a metal grid exactely like an office building (the ceiling tiles are asbestos, but not blue absestos). Take down the tiles and you see a maze of ducts, pipes electrical wiring, just a ton of stuff. This is then attached to the underside of the steel deck above with hangers bolted into the deck, through a 3 inch layer of sprayed asbestos. There is no way to encapsulate the asbestos without coating all the pipes etc. which you need full access to for maintenance. I just do not see anyway to do this. If the Church says they have made it safe, HOW? It simply cannot be done. That is why nearly all cruise ships from this era have been scrapped.

Combine this with the fact that the Freewinds was originally built as a car ferry which needed even more stringent fireproofing for obvious reasons (a cargo of gasoline laden cars is potentially lethal, there have been many ferry fires). The entire ship is divided into vertical and horizontral fire compartments with steel decks and walls lined with sprayed blue asbestos. This was compromised during the original renos. but every time you have to change a pipe or wiring during routine maintenance, the asbestos is right there, with the pipe attached to the steel through the asbestos. No matter how many times OSA declares it safe I simply don't see a way to encapsulate the asbestos and stopping it going airborne.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Pardon me, but you seem to have detailed knowledge of the internals of the Freewinds and the Asbestos hazard in particular. Would you be the Lawrence Woodcraft who wrote the original affidavit about Freewinds asbestos hazards ?

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am *not* anonymous.

Lawrence has identified himself on another thread. He is the same Lawrence Woodcraft who write the affidavit. We are indeed honoured! :p
 

OHTEEATE

Silver Meritorious Patron
verbal clay demo

So, let me see if I get this right, you have bare or painted metel, or primer coated metal, and then you take a hose and spray blue asbestos mixed with a glue, onto the steel decks, beams, plates,hull. Then, you lay in your pipes, conduits, wires, panels all over the asbestos, so that in order to remove the asbestos entirely, you would have to remove all the paneling, all the wires, all the pipes, basically strip the inside of the ship to bare bones, clean every speck of insulation shot into every tiny crevice, which in many cases included UNREACHABLE SPACES, and then give up and cut it up for scrap. All with Government officials breathing down your neck. Oh, and while all this is happening, you are wearing what looks like a spacesuit, with airhoses, and it all goes into plastic bags for hazardous material disposal. VERY expensive.

Nope, nothing to see here...move along, HEY! look over there!

This is too good, Paul, pass the popcorn please? No, the buttered kind...thanks, buddy. So, is that about right, Lawrence?:yes:
 

OHTEEATE

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think they paid $11 million for the ship. That seems like a very low price
for a ship of that size. I wonder how much the ship was worth as scrap
at the time. I would imagine that the seller informed Scientology of
the asbestos presence...to cover themselves for the legal liability
if nothing else.

Now that its been quarantined in drydock, all the legal documentation
of the asbestos on the ship will be abailiable. The lawyers will
have a slam dunk on this one. Latham and Watkins, are you ready
for this one? (I wonder if they [Latham and Watkins] assisted
in the cover up of this over the past 20 years). This is going
to be a bit more complicated than sending the threatening
notes to teenage annonymous members!

They should have sunk the death trap while they had the chance.
Oh well, the Navy always needs target practice. Are there any
Sea Org members willing to crew the ship to sail it out to the
firing range?

I had a strong interest at one time in the ship, as I had contributed $75,000 towards its' purchase, and was awarded OT 8 and 9, and my name on a cabin door, and a spot on the original Maiden Voyage in 1988, before Maiden Voyage became a yearly event. ( only a Scientologist would buy that weird concept, the yearly maiden voyage). Jens Bogvad was the I/C of the mission to find a ship. After a worldwide search, they found it in St. Pete, Florida, nearby. 11 Million is correct. The plans were in Finnish. I know Jens was Scandinavian, but I don't know when the blue asbestos thing was first known. That is a task for a legal assistant. Lawrence Woodcraft ably described his whistleblowing in the period of 1987, which was disregarded for various reasons. I never heard one word about blue asbestos until 2005, when I got out of the Sea Org and started reading the internet, and saw the affidavit. I was on the ship at least 6 times, including one month in 1988 for OT 8. I was married there in 2003.
I met Mike Napier at Flag in 1987, while on a six-month check on OT 7. He was also doing OT 6, and preparing to join the Sea Org. I liked him immediately. Here was a guy who was really into ships, and being a Captain, who was the perfect recruit for Captain Freewinds. 20 years later, he will probably be the head on a pike. I'm really hoping it won't be him, but am afraid it will be. He is one guy I would be willing to harbor should he need refuge. There are other ships, Mike. You were dealt a hand with a long fuse attached and already burning.
 

NonScio

Patron Meritorious
Here is some legal information on maritime asbestos.

http://www.marlegal.com/personal.html

"Seamen's Personal Injuries
Anyone who has ever worked aboard a vessel knows that the marine environment is hazardous. Marine employment requires training, skill, and care. However, even the most careful and experienced seaman cannot always guard against equipment failure or the negligence of others.
If you are a member of a crew of a vessel, whether that vessel is a cargo ship, a ferry, a casino boat, a long-liner, a tug, a jack-up rig, a drilling ship, or any other means of carrying persons or freight across water, you could be a seaman who is entitled to the benefits that Congress and the General Maritime Law provide.

Seamen are not covered by any type of Workers Compensation statutes like those that exist for land-based workers. To compensate seamen and their families for a seaman's personal injuries or death, the Courts and Congress have developed a patchwork of remedies available to seamen who become sick or injured during their employment aboard vessels. Maintenance and Cure, the Jones Act, and the Unseaworthiness doctrine are laws and legal concepts that require specialized knowledge of maritime law.

Seamen can also obtain the protection of maritime law for illnesses developed after their employment for exposure to asbestos or hazardous chemicals.

A seaman is also entitled to damages for the unseaworthiness of a vessel, maintenance and cure, and Jones Act damages. These remedies are only applicable to seamen and do not apply to land-based workers. Most attorneys are not experienced with these laws designed to protect seamen. Our attorneys are fully qualified to help the seaman navigate his way through the patchwork of remedies to insure that the seaman receives proper medical attention and is fully compensated for his injuries. Maritime Legal Resources was founded by Capt. T. Keith Marshall, III, (1957-2003), who sailed at sea for twenty years and held an Unlimited Tonnage Master Mariners License. Our attorneys continue to adhere to the founding principles - a firm founded by seamen, for seamen. We fully understand the unique hazards that a seaman encounters on a daily basis.


The attorney representing you in an accident on the water needs to know more than how to steer a boat. Knowledge of the Nautical Rules of the Road is essential. Knowledge of admiralty and maritime law and how to apply the facts of your case to the law is absolutely crucial. The members of Maritime Legal Resources are experienced mariners and furthermore, qualified maritime attorneys. If you have an accident on the water, you need the team at Maritime Legal Resources.

Asbestos

Asbestos is a substance that occurs naturally in several countries, but the principal commercial source was South Africa. Asbestos has very good insulating properties and was used for decades as insulating material for steam pipes. Unfortunately, asbestos can cause illness and death.

Workers in ships and shipyards during the 1950's, 60's, and 70's were routinely exposed to asbestos. Many of them have already become ill or died. Once the dangers of asbestos became known, manufacturers quit using it on new construction. However, the ships that pre-dated this knowledge are still afloat, and workers can be exposed even today to this injurious substance.

If you have worked aboard ships, you may have a claim against the vessel and/or your employer, whether you worked at sea or in a shipyard or location where asbestos exposure occurred. Further, many individuals signed up to participate in class actions, but never received adequate compensation. If you fall into any of these categories, you should contact Maritime Legal Resources so that we can advise you on how to recover from the responsible party.


Here is another link on the same subject:
http://www.mesotheliomahelp.net/navy-maritime-ships-asbestos.html
 

XGO

Patron
To me, this is one of the hottest issues (both legally and PR wise) for the Cof$, and I am surprised it has not gotten more attention. Maybe the news media and internet sites are waiting to see the results from the Curacao authorities, which makes sense.
I received today a brochure in the mail from Cof$ stating that Freewinds conventions are scheduled from 22 May through the summer.
Does anybody have any current info on the ship and asbestos predicament?
 
Last edited:

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Does anybody have any current info on the ship and asbestos predicament?

What asbestos predicament? From Karin Pouw, CofS spokeshole, 1 May (Mayday! Mayday!) http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2008/05/freewinds-asbestos-scientology-tom-cruise.php :
The Freewinds regularly inspects the air quality on board and always meets or exceeds US standards. Inspections done on April 15, 2008 and April 28, 2008 again confirmed that the air quality is safe, in accordance with the standards set by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the U.S. Clean Air Act.

The Freewinds is currently undergoing a complete refit, including renovations of all cabins and accommodations facilities as well as upgrading all navigational and nautical safety equipment to meet or exceed future maritime codes scheduled for implementation in the year 2010.

The true and accurate story is that the Freewinds is being restored to better than new condition and no expense has ever been spared in meeting the highest safety standards of any seagoing vessel.

Paul
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
What's really wierd is that with all the money the Church has, you'd think they would just scrap the Freewinds, and buy a luxury liner custom designed to their specifications, even if it cost 100 million to do so. They have that kind of money, and it would prevent this kind of problem. But, what goes around comes around!
 
What's really wierd is that with all the money the Church has, you'd think they would just scrap the Freewinds, and buy a luxury liner custom designed to their specifications, even if it cost 100 million to do so. They have that kind of money, and it would prevent this kind of problem. But, what goes around comes around!

Do NOT underestimate the costs of acquisition & purchase of a new vessel. Ships don't come cheap. Same with operating costs EVEN if you do "man it with slaves".

Besides, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the resulting costs of disposal of the Freewinds doesn't put a serious drain on Cash Reserves. Would Davey REALLY want to sell/mortgage properties in order to junk the old ship and acquire & upgrade another vessel?

This is a very expensive problem and given all the new publicity from Anon, the resulting needs of a new PR offensive, & the need to "defend" their tax status it really could have happened at a better time for the Co$. :bigcry:

I suspect there will be another "tech breakthrough" and an increase in rates coming along shortly.


Mark A. Baker :D
 
Top