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Gerry Armstrong, Berlin, important talk, 17 September, 2011

Discussion in 'Scientology-related Videos' started by Veda, Sep 19, 2011.

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  1. Krautfag

    Krautfag Patron Meritorious

    Heh. Sry, too late, the trolls are locked in the basement again :D
     
  2. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

  3. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    This article about Scientology and Germany is very interesting in deed!

    Thank you for posting it :)

    Love
    Markus
     
  4. WildKat

    WildKat Gold Meritorious Patron

    Just watched all 2 hours of the video. It is well worth the time spent.

    I hope Gerry can continue to speak out. He has integrity. R&R sold their integrity long ago.

    They will continue to lie to protect a false image of LRH because that is what their house of cards is built on.

    LRH left a legacy: he lied about his life, and now he has made willing liars out of his followers. They HAVE to lie to keep the facade up. It would all come crashing down if they accepted the truth of the situation.

    So ironic that there is a level called "Truth Revealed" . The truth is that those who reach that level have become accomplished LIARS!!!

    Keep speaking the truth Gerry. You're awesome!
     
  5. Moosejewels

    Moosejewels Patron Meritorious

    This ^^^^^^ :thumbsup:
     
  6. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    This ^^^^^^ :thumbsup:
     
  7. Amen, and amen, world without end! :clap:
     
  8. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you, Gerry for all that you've endured.:clap::clap::clap::clap:

    You've made the road for the rest of us a lot easier.

    Hopefully soon this whole toxic cult will be nothing more than a memory, and you will be rightfully remembered as a great humanitarian who fought for the truth despite the personal cost.:thumbsup:

    Fuck the whole toxic mess, from its spawning to its current incarnations.:yes:
     
  9. Intelligence

    Intelligence Silver Meritorious Patron

    Ditto to this ^^^^^. Big hug Gerry. Love ya'!:thankyou:

    :handinhand::bighug:
     
  10. lie2meiluvit

    lie2meiluvit Patron with Honors

    All I can say is OMG!!!:omg: As one that has never been in co$ but has been watching from the sidelines...this video has been so informative and is a must see for anyone researching this subject. What Gerry has endured is horrendous and it makes me embarrassed to be an American that has defended our judicial system.:angry:

    Through the years I've caught bits and pieces of Gerry's case but have never had it layed out before me in this way. To those that think he sold out....lets see if you could endure what he did for as long as he did. What "church" would need to pay someone 800 grand to shut them up? If I knew my church payed someone to be silent I would be asking what he knows and why the courts allow this behavior from any tax exempt entity let alone a so called church. As a judge asked to enforce such a gag order I would be asking why the secrecy.

    As far as M&M are concerned...I think the "fair game" that they endure is nothing but a sham. I think there is more to this but if I said what I think my tin foil would show. I guess time will tell.

    To Gerry if you're reading this....Thank you for educating us on the tactics they use to try to ruin people. I believe they tried to make you a victim but you didn't let them get away with it. You didn't sell out- you did what was in everyones best interest in the hopes of ending this nightmare for the others as you were willing to hold out.

    I agree with you on co$ never being reformed. As long as they continue to use Hubbard as source the abuse will continue as that is where it stems from. As a "WOG" I find this all very disturbing.
    May the dear Lord bless you and protect you.
     
  11. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader


    On the thread Veda started hereon 28[SUP]th[/SUP] September, 2014, he/she wrote an abbreviated version of the above cited variation of Gerry’s and Caroline’s requests of Marty.

    I have never met either of the contestants in this drama and hold no brief for either.

    I am acting with good faith and in the vein I think it likely Veda acted, as he said in the 28th September, 2014 post:

    I would like to see Gerry and Marty help each other and work together to incinerate the cult’s nasty practices to the benefit of all.

    And I say this as one who has been in both Marty’s and Gerry’s positions, though to a much lesser extent.

    Gerry, I ask the following question or two and offer the concurrent proposal that might help both you and Marty achieve what you each want and even benefit you both.

    Gerry, to be honest, as stated, your request of Marty, if he were to accede to it would clearly place him at risk. I say this in the context of not being privy to exactly what Marty would have to reveal to satisfy your request that could expose him to various civil suits or even possible criminal prosecution . . . knowing the kinds of things “done in the day by those whom we know did them,” all things are possible.

    Thus my question is: what is it you really, fully, truly want here?

    Is it to bring Marty down? (He won’t go along with that :no::no:)

    Is it to clear your name and position such that you can now happily go about your business and prosper while you each accomplish your objectives of causing the cult to cease its destructive behavior towards those it elects as enemies? I’d say he’s smart enough to go along with that.

    But . . . I’d say he’ll only go along with that if he can see it is safe for him to do so!

    As it stands, if I were in Marty’s shoes, I’d say he cannot as yet see that it is safe for him to help you with what you want. You will best know the truth, if there is any in it, of what I am about to surmise; and that is, you may well have information and experiences that could be used to his detriment if he were to do as stated in the above request.

    In my view, I see the very wording of your request to be the barrier that prohibits him from acting to your benefit.

    My recommendation, having experienced both sides of the coin you fellows are jousting over, is to chew on the following considerations.


    1. We’ve all lived a long time and done things we would not do again.
    2. As we continue on life’s journey we do come to our senses in due course and would act to right old wrongs if it does not expose oneself or innocent others to harm.
    3. In the context of #2) above, is it possible that you could give Marty a guarantee that if he were to help you clear your name that you would in no way cause or allow any of the information given you in the effort to clear your name to be used to obtain any “retribution” or expose Marty and the innocent parties he needs to protect to any harm whatsoever?
    4. If I were Marty, I’d get together with you on that basis because you each could benefit enormously from such a cooperation.

    As I sit our here looking at the scenario, I would just love to see you two fellas safely get on team together and bring that fuggen kult down!! I am sure, that pooling what you both have been through and knowing what you know would blow those choich dogs to kingdom come.

    That’s my little view of things based on the experience of handling similar situations. Hell, I’ve even found it works out here in the real world. Folks simply do not like to be nor want to be threatened with embarrassment or harm by revelation of mistakes, goofs or naughties.

    Hey, Veda, does this measure up as some help that might possibly be appreciated?:p

    For any who cares to that knows how to get the above ideas to both Marty and Gerry, please do. I do not frequent the other troubled corners of the internet . . . ESMB gives me my fill of dramas:melodramatic:

    RogerB
     
  12. Caroline

    Caroline Patron Meritorious

    Gerry asks if you have read the documents on the Armstrong Op site. Rathbun is an “operator,” and there is a wealth of Rathbun-specific documents listed there.

    Gerry just posted an introduction to the op and the site: http://armstrong-op.gerryarmstrong.ca/about

    Have you read Rathbun’s Memoirs? He devotes many pages to black PRing Gerry and his attorney Michael Flynn, and continues their frame-ups in the Hubbard biography documents affair, and the Hubbard check forgery. I have included some of those excerpts on the pages by and about Rathbun.

    Have you read Gerry’s several letters to Rathbun since 2009 when Rathbun began communicating publicly? Gerry's letters to Rathbun are readily available on Gerry's web site.

    Have you read the Scientologists’ submissions to the IRS on which their 1993 tax exemption was granted? Many of those pages, specifically the pages related to Gerry Armstrong are posted on the Armstrong Op site.
     
  13. Dave B.

    Dave B. Maximus Ultimus Mostimus

    To cut to the chase 1:18:10 re: the two MR's.
     
  14. westgrinsted

    westgrinsted Patron

    Gerry was a pioneer. In his day there was no internet and the cult was very powerful. I am very impressed by his courage to speak. He was one of the first people to dare to say the truth about Hubbard's lies. It must have been quite a shock when he discovered Hubbard's affirmations and his true nature.
     
  15. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    :thumbsup::yes::clap:

    Excerpt from a Post I made on ESMB four years ago...

    "I am amazed at how so much of all of “It” has “shaken out” over the last 30 years; who has said what and what some have had to say and are still saying or, to date, are unwilling to say.

    We are so fortunate to have access to information from folks like Mayo, Kima, Hana, Urq, Armstrong, etc. Reading their stories was especially helpful to me as I knew them, had “chewed some of the same dirt” and trusted the veracity and sincerity of their words.

    Armstrong, in particular, deserves much gratitude for his contributions to the “body of Knowledge” re: El Ron.

    Anyone that ever knew and worked around Gerry Armstrong knew he was a very honest, straight, decent, intelligent and sincere guy. That’s why Armstrong was posted as El Ron’s Archivist and, ultimately, that’s how he wound up “getting the goods” on El Ron and Hisself’s Majik Boots and why he blew the whistle. While reading his story and the information he found, dug up and preserved I could imagine in my “minds eye” the Gerry I knew going through all the “OMFG’s, Holy Smoke’s, WTF’s” and “Oh, shit…what am I gonna do with this shit”!?"


    Face:)
     
  16. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    ...


    Trying to understand the true story and nature of Scientology without reading the chapters on Gerry Armstrong is very much like trying to understand the movie "The Wizard Of Oz" without watching the first scenes in Kansas and the end scene where she wakes up in bed.

    I think I'll go post a LINK to this thread on that other (current) thread about Jerry.

    Gerry & Caroline, thank you so very much for continuing to put the truth out there. Scientologists talk a lot about "integrity" and "honor" and "courage". You live it.

    Sending love and support,

    hh
     
  17. Caroline

    Caroline Patron Meritorious

    I added a rough time index to assist in navigation, if desired.


    0:00-3:35 Introduction by Pastor Thomas Gandow (German).

    3:35 [GA clarifies why he is here in Berlin.]

    4:00 [When GA met Rinder; when GA met Rathbun.]

    5:00 [Rathbun and Rinder covert ops; black propaganda; GA left in 1981; highlights of his history; in final two years did research for Hubbard's biography.]

    6:00 [GA documented Hubbard's lies; Hubbard ordered his marriage broken up.]

    7:00 [Leaving Scientology; working with Omar Garrison; working on Hubbard's biography; being in communication with Hubbard; lawsuits.]

    8:00 [Communicating with Hubbard; biography research project; Omar Garrison; Hubbard as a gargantuan liar.]

    9:00 [GA invites questions. GA left Scientology in 1981]

    10:00 [Escaping Scientology in December 1981; Omar Garrison]

    11:00 [Job with Omar Garrison; Costa Mesa; surveillance; Christofferson v. Scientology; 1985 Portland trial; documents showing Scientology operation; Dan Sherman (current LRH biographer).]

    12:00 [Dan Sherman; intelligence.]

    13:00 [Document Scientology entered in to the Christofferson case; Loyalist op and David Miscavige -- same pattern going on now.]

    14:00 [Surveillance; February 1982 SP Declare; April 1982 second SP Declare; GA's wedding photographs.]

    15:00 [GA and wife becoming educated in legal affairs; Scientology stole photos]

    16:00 [Hooking up with Michael Flynn; going back to Omar Garrison re: documents; helping Omar copy documents; sending documents to Michael Flynn]

    17:00 [Rathbun's activity during lawsuit]

    18:00 [Rathbun; Scientology sued GA 6 times; PIs' fair game; terrorizing GA and wife on freeway]

    19:00 [Freeway incident; going to Costa Mesa Police]

    20:00 [LAPD Officer $10,000 for phony authorization to surveil, eavesdrop and videotape GA and Michael Flynn; Rathbun and Rinder involved in lawsuit and operations; Dan Sherman remains GA's "friend"]

    21:00 [Sherman's cover; meeting in Griffith Park; Rathbun as Mr. Fix-it; Rathbun came to home before trial in 1984]

    22:00 [GA meeting with ex-wife; Christofferson trial; 1984 Breckenridge Decision; Scientology's accusation about stealing documents]

    23:00 [Breckenridge Decision; fair game; sending documents to attorney; Hubbard as pathological liar; examples of his lies]

    24:00 [Question re lie about number of children, and answer; Sara Northrup and Alexis; claim about Jack Parsons; occult practices with Jack Parsons; Hubbard's false claim re being sent in to break up a black magic ring; occult practices in Scientology; Crowley system.]

    25:00 [Question re Hubbard's history as Intelligence person; GA answer]

    26:00 [Hubbard's so called "sheep-dipped" history; the Admissions]

    27:00 ["Men are my slaves"; documents show Hubbard programmed himself; GA concluded Hubbard was a psychopath/sociopath; defines essential qualities]

    28:04 [break in tape]

    28:00 [Re B & G Wards and decision against Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard]

    29:00 [David Kluge and going to Nevada for pc files; discussion re operation to try and prevent GA from testifying]

    30:00 [Operation in London; acosted by 3 PIs accusing him of passing documents at the Olde Cock Tavern; PIs executed false declarations re operation.]

    31:00 [Returned from London; series of meetings with Dan Sherman; meetings with David Kluge and then with Mike Rinder; Eugene Ingram; Rathbun has claimed he hired Ingram; Ingram threatening to put a bullet between GA's eyes]

    32:00 [Meetings with Kluge and Rinder were videotaped by Ingram; Scientology used tapes later in Christofferson; Loyalist op]

    33:00 [L. Ron Hubbard directly involved; Hubbard was very much on the lines during Armstrong 1 trial; Vaughn Young told GA Hubbard was involved; wanted poster]

    34:00 [Question re whether they've tried to kill GA physically or his personal honor; GA's answer re threats; physically assaulted 6 times; terrorized on freeway; when pressure mounts in a cult, for example People's Temple]

    35:00 [When GA was on the ship, discussion re various people to assasinate; hate comes from Miscavige faction and Independent faction as well; discusses threat]

    36:00 [Rex Fowler incident and cult pressure; meetings with Kluge and Rinder]

    37:00 [GA had just beat Scientology in their suit against him; GA's countersuit was proceeding; how situation related to the Loyalist op; at Christofferson trial it became apparent that Kluge, Rinder and Sherman not his friends and that he had been lured in to a trap]

    38:00 [How GA he talked while on surveilance tape.]

    39:00 [During Christofferson trial GA contemplated suicide. Question about Mike Flynn, and GA's answer.]

    40:00 [Mike Flynn, $39 million judgment and fair game; lived in Portland after trial, Mike Flynn hired GA and went to Boston as paralegal until settlement in December 1986]

    41:00 [In Boston contacted by FBI; Scientology accused GA of impersonating an FBI officer; FBI officer came to Flynn's office and interviewed GA]

    42:00 [FOIA request and obtained some of the operation documents; what Scientology did with the videotape; Freedom article about the operation; distributed an incomplete transcript of videotape to government officials and police]

    43:00 [Judge in Christofferson said videos are devastating against Scientology, allowed them to be shown to the jury; Scientology created edited version of the tapes and using tapes for regging]

    44:00 [Scientology claimed that GA was in conspiracy with the IRS; the IRS interest in Armstrong case and MCCS tapes]

    45:00 [ MCCS; RTC, CST, Bridge Publications, CSI]

    46:00 [MCCS meeting; admitted to defrauding the IRS; IRS got hold of tape of meeting; IRS continued to deny tax exemption from 1984 through 1993.]

    47:00 [Scientology's letter-writing campaign in connection with the edited video; COINTELPRO]

    48:00 [COINTELPRO and Scientology's claim; GA was a federal witness]

    49:00 [How Scientology justified videotape operation; paid LAPD officer at least $10,000 to give them an authorization; Daryl Gates' statement]

    50:00 [LAPD officer was suspended from the force; Scientology continues to falsely claim this was a legal operation authorized by LAPD; Rinder and Rathbun were both involved;Scientology's letter-writing campaign]

    51:00 [FBI Director Webster wrote no evidence of IRS doing anything improper; tried to have GA prosecuted with the LA District Attorney; LA DA also said there is no crime here]

    52:00 [How it would be helpful if Rathbun and Rinder came forward and told the truth; Scientology culled GA's pc folders; embellished GA's history]

    53:00 [Presented embellished history to Judge Breckenridge and attorneys. Breckenridge went through GA's pc folders; why GA wanted his pc folders]

    54:00 [Culling pc files; the videotape operation--lured GA in on basis that they wanted to prove Flynn was innocent of passing a forged check.]

    55:00 [Scientology framed Flynn with passing a forged $2 million check; Rathbun personally traveled with Gene Ingram black PRing Flynn about the check; Scientology paid known criminals to implicate Flynn]

    56:00 [Paid criminal in Naples to sign a declaration to frame Flynn; Flynn claimed they broke up his marriage; planted agents in Flynn's office; Flynn claimed they tampered with his private plane and attempted to assasinate him; used Flynn's innocence to lure GA into operation]

    57:00 [December 1986 Flynn announced Scientology had agreed to settle all the cases Flynn represented; settlement talks through 1982-1986;

    57:55 [break in tape]

    58:00 [GA had already testified for some 45 days in probably 20 cases; executed dozens of declarations or affidavits; GA's trial scheduled for a month away; Flynn called and said it was arranged]

    59:00 [GA had already communicated to Flynn that he would not sign a gag order; willing to settle;

    59:33 [break in tape]

    1:00 [Flynn and global settlement; GA flew to Los Angeles; Flynn gave GA the "settlement agreement" he was expected to sign and their discussion (documentation on website)]

    1:01:13 [break in tape]

    1:01 [The settlement agreement]

    1:02 [Prohibitions within settlement agreement]

    1:02 [GA's discussion with Flynn why he can't sign the agreement; "Gerry, it's not worth the paper it's printed on."]

    1:03 [Flynn tells GA about Scientology promise to end fair game; GA resisted signing; Flynn told GA that they destroyed Flynn's life, etc.; how Scientology made GA responsible]

    1:04 [Another of Flynn's client screamed at GA to pressure him to sign agreement; GA made responsible for other clients]

    1:05 [GA's vision into the future where he was going to be haunted and hunted and deserted. (GA pause); why GA signed the agreement; what Rathbun calls "selling out"; why the Indies hate GA.]

    1:06 [Signed the settlement agreement; Scientology would not let him get on with his life; within days after settlement, Scientology took a mass of black PR on GA to the Los Angeles Times. GA couldn't respond to the black PR; discussion about wording of the contract; gives you the idea that it is reciprocal.]

    1:07 [Scientology threats; Scientology filed affidavits in Russell Miller case (Barefaced Messiah).]

    1:08 [Bent Corydon case; black pr; subpoena; Lawrence Heller threat]

    1:09 [ Scientology wanted to have their attorney represent GA against Corydon; GA's decision to speak out; Judge Whyte.]

    1:10 [Court of appeal rejected Scientology's appeal on basis that my cross-complaint had not been tried. Cross-complaint scheduled to go to trial when settlement happened.]

    1:10 [GA petitioned Court of appeal to participate in his own appeal; contract prohibits GA from defending himself in his own appeal.]

    1:11 [Court of Appeal made settlement contract public.]

    1:11 [1991: Filed first action against GA to enforce settlement contract. Motion to enforce.Judge ruled this was one of the most one-sided, unfair contracts he had ever seen.]

    1:12 [Scientology filed a new lawsuit; Judge Gary Thomas ruling; injunction; GA had no trial in this case.]

    1:13 [Thomas ruled no pressure or duress; okay to sign away your 1st amendment rights.]

    1:14 [GA bankruptcy; Scientology sued GA in bankruptcy.]

    1:15 [GA won the case in bankruptcy; Thomas injunction; Scientology beneficiaries; injunction applies around the world.]

    1:16 [The Indies are also beneficiaries in this contract and injunction.]

    1:16 [Question and GA answer re Indies' as beneficiaries.]

    1:17 [Contract and injunction: impact on GA's employment; GA filed notice of appeal; record on appeal.]

    1:18 [1997: first Internet account; IRS 1023 submission; pages of black PR on GA used to get tax exemption.]

    1:19 [IRS, black PR; Rathbun and Rinder filed the materials with the IRS; another reason why they don't come forward.]

    1:20 [IRS tax exemption; black PR on GA.]

    1:21 [GA leaves the US to go to Canada; Grady Ward's case; subpoena; attorney threat.]

    1:22 [GA declaration; left US; Scientology's contempt of court order.]

    1:24 [Fugitive from justice claim; how they got rid of GA's appeal; GA came to Germany for first time; second contempt of court order for speaking in Germany, Russia and Denmark.]

    1:25 [Contempt order comes with fines and jail time]

    1:26 [Important areas Rathbun and Rinder should testify about re: pressure from GA's attorney that drove him to malpractice.]

    1:26 [Rathbun and Rinder involved in framing Flynn. Information could help to correct injustices.]

    1:27 [Rathbun and Rinder are phonies; don't want to correct the evils; don't say anything about the injustices and crimes committed against people outside the organization.]

    1:27 [Question and answer re Rathbun and Rinder's intentions for Scientology.]

    1:28 [Freezone; GA's relationship with Independents; David Mayo; Rathbun and Rinder's arrival has changed things; Question re Independents and beneficiaries.]

    1:29 [Independents as beneficiaries to the contract; factions of Scientology; concern re saying DM is source of Scientology's problems.]

    1:30 [Scientology reformation and injustices.]

    1:30 [Question re Rathbun and Squirrelbusters; Loyalists.]

    1:31 [Loyalists; break in tape; Independents' black PR; Rathbun and Hubbard's falsehoods, etc.]

    1:32 [Rathbun and Lisa McPherson; what done to influence the judge in McPherson; what done to influence the judge in Armstrong; Question re Rathbun]

    1:33 [Rathbun's letter to GA (Pastor Gandow reads Rathbun's letter); Gerry's letters to Rathbun; why he started writing Rathbun and asked for help.]

    1:34 [GA's manuscript, theft of documents; Jesse Prince and Vicki Aznaran told GA that Miscavige has GA's materials; Rathbun's agents stole it from GA's car (reads Rathbun's letter to GA).]

    1:35 [Re Rathbun being able to understand GA; (reading Rathbun's September 6, 2009 letter)]

    1:36 [St. Pete Times article and Rathbun's claim about not lying; continues reading Rathbun's letter. ]

    1:37 [Re: mental process of a psychopath; continues reading Rathbun's letter; selling out.]

    1:38 [(GA continues reading Rathbun's letter.)]

    1:39 [Perverse document. Question re possibility of reformation and GA answer.]

    1:40 [Scientology installs a psychopathic condition: no guilt, lying, uncaring toward fellow human beings, no remorse; temporary condition.]

    1:41 [Examples of installing a psychopathic condition in groups; discussion re FZ and Independents.]

    1:42 [Hubbard and lying; Scientologists and lying; conscience.]

    1:43 [Question about Hubbard's 1947 letter requesting psychiatric help and answer; Hubbard documents, the Admissions.]

    1:44 [Question re pressure and contract; other defenses such as fraud.]

    1:45 [GA's defenses.]

    1:46 [Thomas Gandow comments about validity of contract.]

    1:47 [The injunction and how it applies to people acting in concert with GA.]

    1:48 [The injunction and prohibitions; acting in concert; question re religion.]

    1:49 [Question and answer re future of Scientology and what GA would work toward; education of the public.]

    1:50 [Banning will not work.]

    1:51 [Scientology selling a psychopathic condition; discussion re future.]

    1:51 [Question re criminal organization.]

    1:52 [Question: Why is Scientology not prosecuted as a criminal organization? GA answer. ]

    1:52 [break in tape]

    1:52 [US made an ally of Scientology and why.]

    1:53 [More re US making an ally of Scientology; US and Scientology's victims; US could have come to GA's defense.]

    1:54 [Education about psychopathy and Scientology as a psychopathic organization. Question re: Scientology going underground.]

    1:55 [GA answer; further re education.]

    1:56 [Scientology defrauds people; protection racket; Thomas Gandow closes (German).]