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Getting it out of your head

Discussion in 'Leaving Scientology' started by UMike, Jan 11, 2007.

  1. UMike

    UMike Patron with Honors

    Great category-Leaving the Church.

    Is Scientology still in your head..?

    I have had a love-hate relationship with this organization for my entire adult life. My brother and I were "parishioners" lol during the same period of time essentially.

    I walked out for good circa 70's-around 1978 I think. I was in for only 3 years.
    It's been 30 years and I have to tell you--it's still in my head. The good and the bad.

    SCN made and has a profound effect on me...to this day.

    The Benefit I received from *some* of my auditing/training.
    The Trauma from ethics and subsequent 2 month harassment because I went public.

    I cannot separate the two. Nor do I try to any longer.

    And even 30 years on, my brother and I will briefly start swapping nomenclature. not often-but it happens...

    UMike
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2007
  2. Emma

    Emma Con te partirĂ² Administrator

    I'm not sure if you can ever get it out of your head.

    It's like the little girl with the curl, when it was good it was very very good, and wnen it was bad it was horrid.

    Some of the best and worst times of my life were spent in Scn. Some of the strongest bonds and frienships were forged whilst in the CoS. The greatest betrayals occured whilst in the CoS.

    I'm not sure that these types of extreme experiences can be forgotten or undone.

    I see no shame in admitting that Scn is still in your head. I spent 1/2 my adult life in the CoS. How does one just pretend that didn't happen?
     
  3. Oingo Boingo

    Oingo Boingo Patron

    You know, I'm not sure if its' a matter of getting it out of your head. It's your experience, it belongs to you, it's part of you. I don't think you'll ever get rid of it.

    The question is, what do you do with it?

    Sure, you could run and hide in a corner and try to "handle" it, for want of a better term, but you see, everything in my world has a side application. An item may be broken for it's original, intended purpose, but there's a lot of components inside that will come of use in other things, so I keep 'em, and one day something comes up, I snap my fingers and say to myself; "I have JUST the thing that will fit this and work!" and it'll be for something else entirely.

    Maybe that's what you gotta do with your experience. It was "broken" after a fashion and all, but if you keep toying with the pieces, maybe you can make something workable out of it. This board is an example... You saw a couple of broken things, decided to take the components of 'em and slap 'em together, and you came up with something new that seems to work. There's some powerful healing in that, I think.
     
  4. OHTEEATE

    OHTEEATE Silver Meritorious Patron

    leaving

    After 34 years in, the hard part for me is admitting I was wrong, and that I was duped. I was popping up 25 times per event to clap for Ron with all the other people. My 1st wife stopped popping, then stopped going, then refused to go, and I dumped her. After 22 years of marraige and 2 kids. She just saw it before I did. We had a marraige counselling at Flag, and when we got home, she told me she was never going back to Flag. She was an OT 7 comp. and she never did 8.
    One thing that keeps nagging at me is the more I hear about LRH, the more my affinity becomes alloyed. There was a secretiveness about him when he was hiding out, and would not hob nob with staff anymore. At St. Hill, he would be very hands on with students, but not later. He had some very serious personality flaws, almost like two people at times. Jim Dincalci said he wrote with his eyes rolled back in his head. That's a pretty good trick, unless you consider WHO was writing? Good question.
     
  5. UMike

    UMike Patron with Honors

    When I hear these stories it's disturbing to be honest. Why? Because my
    experience was so very different after ony 3 years.
    I guess I was just lucky to have an older brother that got us both o u t back in 1978 (?).

    It was a happy :eyeroll: smiley store front mission in the suburbs. I'd only even seen a sea org guy on a couple of occasions in 3 years!
    They would come by to speak with some staff but would never actually come inside. It was a policy.

    I would see them while on a coffee break, now and then.
    They never smiled....and now looking back they were a little sinister..
    looking at the whole package with the uniform etc.

    We were insulated from the "Orgs" reality to keep the money flowing I think.

    One thing many of us have in common is that we stayed the course even though some of the auditing just simply did not work.

    UMike
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2007
  6. Romuva

    Romuva Patron Meritorious


    LRH's and scientology's partial success is the continual mystery and information that is unknown about him in my opinion.There were only
    so many people that had direct personal dealings with him.

    If LRH had had a complete mental breakdown and ended up in a asylum
    or had snapped like Jim Jones Scientology would of lost most of it's appeal
    and credibility years ago.The fact that LRH was able to keep himself
    together and present a stable persona to his followers and leadership allow
    the debate to continue over scientology.

    The mystery of LRH is the glue that keeps COS together.The fact that people
    still can't make the connection between the creation of Scientology and
    the real truth about who LRH was, still keeps the open mindedness about
    Scientology alive.The mindset of "There still must be something to this"
    equates to "LRH must of been on to something"."LRH is something else,
    isn't he?"

    Mythology and being aloof is a very powerful tool.:confused:
     
  7. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Mike,

    I don't think that we will ever "get it out of our head" anymore than I will ever get my college years/experience "out of my head".

    I haven't even tried to really do that. I just re-evaluate it based on further knowledge and experience.
     
  8. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I think what Emma and others have said here is right: you have to assimilate what you've learned from it and put it to good use.

    Hanging out with all you guys on this board has really shown me a different side to what has been happening to me. I'm finding that after 5 years of raging, I'm starting to settle down a little. I'm kinda starting to move on.

    I've realized I don't use the nomenclature as much at all any more. I can't remember a lot of the policies I use to. I'm not even all that mad at LRH anymore. The guy was a scumbag - and now he's dead.

    Good.

    I used to have this urge to write a novel about it, but I don't know if I'm that interested in it any more.

    I would like to move on.

    And I think I'm starting to.
     
  9. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    And after more years you may find this to be even more true. Although I hope that you still post occassionally.

    Best regards
     
  10. Emma

    Emma Con te partirĂ² Administrator

    Jeez Alonzo, we must be mirroring each other in our recovery process. So much of what you write is what I feel.

    I'm so glad you are feeling like you can move on. I'm wondering if that includes not postiong to forums any more? I'd be very sad to lose you as a member, but on the other hand, if it meant you were truly moving on and were happy, it would be a bitter sweet sorrow.
     
  11. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    It is very possible to get anything that is unwanted out of your head.

    This can be done solo, though it is best if you co-process it.

    Make sure you write everything down.

    Just follow your interest line.

    You can scan the questions and take up what question or area that interests you.

    Just reading these questions will start undoing and unfixing your attention from charged areas.

    Areas: Scientology, Ethics, Reg-ing, Processing, Training, Cramming, Post, Hat, Money, Time, Space, Energy, Things, etc.

    Select area of interest or charge:

    Use Prefix: Connected to (area)??

    1. Were you given a wrong item?

    a. What was the wrong item?

    b. What were the consequences that occurred from that wrong item?

    2. Was a right item not accepted?

    a. What was the right item?

    b. What were the consequences that occurred from that not accepted right item?

    c. Because of this did you start asking yourself questions?

    d. What were the questions?

    e. If listing question; correct list.

    3. Were you given a wrong answer?

    a. What was the wrong answer?

    b. What were the consequences that occurred from that wrong answer?

    c. Because of this did you start asking yourself questions?

    d. What were the questions?

    e. If listing question; correct list.


    4. Was a right answer not accepted?

    a. What was the right answer?

    b. What were the consequences that occurred from that not accepted right answer?

    c. Because of this did you start asking yourself questions?

    d. What were the questions?

    e. If listing question; correct list.

    5. Were you given a wrong purpose or goal?

    a. What was the wrong purpose or goal?

    b. What were the consequences that occurred from that wrong purpose or goal?

    c. Because of this did you start asking yourself questions?

    d. What were the questions?

    e. If listing question; correct list.

    6. Was a right purpose or goal not accepted?

    a. What was the right purpose or goal?

    b. What were the consequences that occurred from that not accepted right purpose or goal?

    c. Because of this did you start asking yourself questions?

    d. What were the questions?

    e. If listing question; correct list.

    7. Were you given a wrong condition?

    a. What was the wrong condition?

    b. What were the consequences that occurred from that wrong condition?

    c. Because of this did you start asking yourself questions?

    d. What were the questions?

    e. If listing question; correct list.

    8. Was a correct condition not accepted?

    a. What was the correct condition?

    b. What were the consequences that occurred from that not accepted correct condition?

    c. Because of this did you start asking yourself questions?

    d. What were the questions?

    e. If listing question; correct list.

    9. Was a goal or dream of yours made nothing of, and someone else?s goals or dreams super-imposed over yours?

    a. What was the goal or dream of yours that was made nothing of?

    b. What were the consequences that occurred from that goal or dream of yours that was made nothing of?

    c. What was someone else?s goal or dream that was super-imposed over yours?

    d. What were the consequences that occurred from someone else?s goal or dream that was super-imposed over yours?

    e. Because of this did you start asking yourself questions?

    f. What were the questions?

    g. If listing question; correct list.

    10. Was there a wrong indication?

    a. What was the wrong indication?

    b. What were the consequences that occurred from that wrong indication?

    c. Because of this did you start asking yourself questions?

    d. What were the questions?

    e. If listing question; correct list.

    11. Was a correct indication not accepted?

    a. What was the correct indication?

    b. What were the consequences that occurred from that not accepted correct indication?

    c. Because of this did you start asking yourself questions?

    d. What were the questions?

    e. If listing question; correct list.

    Don?t make an ordeal out of this. It is best done to a win. Take a break. Stay on one subject until your attention goes free.

    Alan
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2012
  12. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Alan,

    I know that you mean well with your post above. :)

    I had already answered all those questions for myself quite awhile back. At this point I don't need to do any listing.

    Any final LFBDs that I had was when I read "Messiah or Madman". There is no "charge" left on this subject - only re-evaluation of what happened. The history of what others have posted have helped to "fill in the blanks" - your history included.

    I don't need for you to audit me. I just like to read your past SCN personal experiences. Thanks for this - whenever you do this.
     
  13. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I don't know if it means no more posting. Time spent posting sometimes feels like time spent on Scientology. And I've spent too much time at that already.

    As far as losing me as a member, I'll route out properly.

    And I will replace myself with a new, fully hatted member.

    Will there be a freeloader's debt?

    (Just kidding! :D )
     
  14. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    There are others on this forum PG.

    This forum allows power of choice.

    I stated; run what interests you! Obviously if nothing interest you..........

    I hope you don't mind if I write what I want to write?

    Alan
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2012
  15. Romuva

    Romuva Patron Meritorious

    Alan ,don't mean to but in.I enjoy reading your posts here. If anything,it
    gives me an ability to have a positive perspective on my scientology experience.I guess it's part of the reason why I would not want to insult any non COS scientologists here.I respect a person's opinion if they feel Sci has helped them in their life and how they choose to define it.I very much
    respect someone's view if they wish to help others,although I may not
    agree necessarily with the means.

    Too much of COS makes absolutely no sense to me and it just seems
    the more people seem to pick apart COS and LRH they find stuff that
    upsets or disturbs them.I understand some people don't discover or
    conclude this.That's cool with me now and I respect people's opinions
    more.

    It was great for me to come to these boards in the past few months.I buried
    my experience for well over 20 years.I know this may sound silly to some
    but my brief Scientology experience left me for at least several years of
    being in a constant (imagined probably) state of anxiety and at times of
    fear.I would wake up in the night from nightmares and at times think
    I was going to die because I had read the OT materials.I guess I didn't
    realize how indoctrinated I had become in such a short period of time.
    I was afraid for the longest time that because I had contributed to
    CAN I would be constantly harrassed by all these strange fanatical
    Scientologists.Looking back I can't actually belief I placed that much
    investment and time in that fear.I felt my life would become a dismal failure
    and several times I comtemplated returning because I really felt in a deep
    subconscious way ,it was my only eternal salvation.Part of my problem
    might of been I had choose not to get myself any counseling or interact
    with other ex-sci's.It might of aided in sorting out my experience ,over
    time.

    Looking back I don't know how I overcame this insanity but I did.One idea
    I have is life itself throws challenges at you(for better or for worse) and
    you learn to overcome them to a greater or lesser extent or some not
    at all.You learn to just deal with them,day to day.
    I picked up the pieces gradually and moved on ,living and getting through
    each day,week,month and year(s)

    I guess after ,say five years or so,not reading or thinking less about
    Scientology and my experience I buried and forgot alot of my experience.
    The fear diminished and the anxiety faded gradually like a bad headache.
    I was starting to realize alot of my previous thinking and indoctrination
    was alot of bullshit.I was still alive(not dead obviously)and the memories
    were fading and I blocked out more over time and learned to cope with
    my thoughts.Having different jobs helped.I started concentrating on learning
    different skills,different workplaces and people and became accustomed
    to daily routines of life.I went back to school for a while and going to class
    learning different ideas and interacting with students and different teachers
    really helped me incorporate some of my sci think over time.I realized it
    wasn't the end of the world if you didn't look up words and follow LRH's
    study tech.In fact,you could get good grades and learn without it.
    Imagine that!:duh: ......and I found from my experience the more I internally
    questioned scientology,the more my belief system fell apart.Part of it
    was I explored alternative ideas and solutions and even came to some of
    my own conclusions and actually realized I was capable of that.I didn't
    need a reference to teach me or guide me.I could think for myself and
    had intelligence and a brain.My life wasn't going to be a miserable failure.
    Everything was going to be ok.I started to realize over time my life
    wasn't coming to an end.It continued on.

    My experience is/was I was gradually selective about Scientology.I questioned
    and debated it in my mind and challenged the ideas to outside "Wog"(man,I hate that fucking word)..ideas.I felt some of the confidence and ability I
    gained I did myself in reality.Scientology didn't "help" me and I certainly
    wasn't indebted to it.I overcame my challenges and gained confidence in
    myself.If Scientology convinced or persuaded me in a way that I was able
    to confront and solve my problems and fulfill my goals,desires,wants ect.
    fine but other ideas and opinions had influenced it as well.I think that's
    why I understand some people here who see Scientology as a vehicle
    or accesibility to a more fulfilling and happier life.If they feel it has helped
    them,who am I necessarily to question it?.I just see Scientology so
    much as my recent experiences with communism.That somehow I should
    be so grateful or acknowlege it for what it has done for me.Nobody needs
    to do that.It's not necessary or constructive thinking.

    For myself ,I see too much totality,rigidity and restriction in Scientology.
    Too much "This is what it is" or "You may think this but it's really this".
    To me ,that doesn't jive well.I want to criticize and question subjects and
    decide for myself.There's nothing wrong with being a cynic or a critic or
    doing one's own thinking or pursuing different forms of intellectualism.
    For me,you can't simplify complexity and uncertainty.Some things
    are just unexplainable and in a state of chaos.Obviously there are
    still so many mysteries to the universe,unsolved.Maybe it's convenient
    and assuring to have convenient and assuring answers.certainty can be
    a very powerful tool.
    I still have many problems with the persona of LRH and his thinking
    in his "philosophy".I don't trust what he was and question his true
    intentions.I'm concerned about what his real thinking and personality
    was.

    It took a long time for me to sort it out and it's funny the purpose,meaning,
    sastifaction and happiness I found stumbling through circumstancial
    accident,as a part of exploring life itself.

    I discovered and maybe created perhaps a life where I could engage myself
    with new people,a new country..a new set of friends who I could share
    myself,my ideas and help others.I like this new life I have and I don't
    think I would trade it for anything.I enjoy meeting new people and I
    get great sastifaction in trying to help people,especially when it really does
    help them.Progress and modernity are exciting concepts to see developed,
    gradually.I enjoy helping my recently reunited family.I like being able
    to solve problems and improve people lives genuinely.I sleep better
    at night and am more at ease with myself.

    I realize now there are many different facets to improving your life and
    exploring and discovering ideas and experiences.Life is evolving process
    and you learn and gain confidence by actually living it.I really do
    believe you need the personal space and freedom to do that,though.
    Alot of what I read here seems to confirm that.

    I'm at a point at my life I want to start looking at more interests,hobbies,
    ideas.ect and it's interesting to read ideas here to look at that.

    Being here helped me put the whole experience into perspective and some
    final closure on the subject.I have learned so much reading the varying
    opinions here and OCMB.I'm so glad the internet was able to blow this
    subject wide open.The fact that intellectuals here can debate and discuss
    this subject is truly awesome and it still blows my mind there are forums
    that discuss this subject.That people didn't file it away and forget it.That
    they used their experiences and ideas to continue discussions is truly a
    wonderful thing.It has been a true catharthis,for me.I want to thank
    the long time Ex-sci's for that.You did a world of service for me.

    It's probably time for me to move on myself.I can finally close the door
    and the demons of the past are more like clouds in the sky ,passing by.
    I still will probably come back here time to time and I still like the postings
    here.

    Well,thank you everyone for letting me ramble on and being such an
    accepting and understanding groups of people.

    keep the faith
     
  16. Pooks

    Pooks MERCHANT OF CHAOS

    I think the entire adventure of unindoctrinating myself from the Scn
    mindset has been both fabulous and horrible.

    After 27 years or being a full fledged fanatic, I started looking at
    the "out points" in Scn, "brushing aside all bias and rumor".

    And what I found out is that I was betrayed by the very thing that
    I thought was going to bring me and others "total freedom".

    It forced me to look at all my thoughts and beliefs. I chose NOT
    to throw it out all at once as I thought that would be too
    overwhelming. For me to take all of my then "stable data" and just
    toss it aside because Hubbard was a liar and a wanker did not
    seem like a good idea. I had read enough on ars from EX Scios
    to know that most of them were pretty fucked up and the last
    think I wanted to be was an EX.

    So I took my time, I read a lot, I decided to slowly view all of
    my indoctrination and to unravel it. I decided to have an
    "open mind" which is a bad thing in Scn. I decided to listen
    more and judge less, and I still have a hard time with that one
    ;)

    But most importantly, I decided to never stop the process of
    unindoctrinating myself and to be willing to see how far I could
    go with it. It's been quite an adventure.

    I've already been through the "Damn, what a fucking idiot" phase
    of this process. And then of course I spent a great deal of time
    in the "I'm really pissed off about this shit" phase. Now I'm mellowing
    a bit about it. But only a bit.

    Thank you so much Emma for creating this board. It's a great place to
    meet up with Ex's and discuss the issues like adults.

    I love the fact that ex's and others can come here and talk rather than
    do battle. I find it a very safe place and I'm so very happy with your
    moderation of the board.

    From your stats, my guess is that this has become a popular place to read.

    Hugs,

    Patty P
     
  17. Romuva

    Romuva Patron Meritorious

    Patty,When I read what you and others here went through,I have to
    disagree with the idea that you or any of the ex-COS members were idiots.
    I'm not saying you implied or said that ,I'm just going off on my own meanderings
    :screwy:


    I hate to use this analogy because I look like the sockpuppet that was
    banned off of here but all I can say is ,it is true.I have 3 cousins that
    were active communists.One,was with the navy for many years.

    They all felt and still very much feel communism wasn't all bad.It provided
    opportunities to them and gave them some opportunity at an education.
    and they will argue to this day that communism did help people.Communist
    activists or party members never saw themselves as idiotic.My cousins
    are still proud of who they were and their professions.It's really somebodies
    outside perception that they were stupid or moronic.Just like it was the perception of people that didn't understand our experiences or scientology
    to say we were brainwashed ,stupid or morons.

    As scientologists ,everyone truly believed in their ideology and that they
    were truly going to make the world a better place.It was really no different
    than the way alot of socialists and communists felt.They were both armed with social justice and equality and the divine conviction that their solutions
    were absolute and were going to tackle the toughest problems of mankind.
    When you truly belief in this way of life you hardly think of yourself as an
    idiot.

    I remember when I was out of the sci thing altogether ,I was ridiculed
    by my brother and his friends but very easily any one of them could of
    been easily "handled" and routed in to start courses.I realized now that
    their ignornace was bliss and as much as I feel some of them were assholes
    (some still are) I still am grateful I never sucked any of them in because
    even the biggest asshole doesn't deserve an experience like that.It doesn't
    help at the same time that people around town are saying you're "the loony
    who was in a cult" and to find out later it was your own brother that was
    one of those people gossiping.but oh well,I digress.:duh:

    I still will say to my brother to this day "It's very easy to be a critic when
    you're sitting on the sidelines" He still doesn't get it.Oh well, it's not
    my problem he's a shithead.

    I guess it's just my opinion though.I just feel anybody is vulnerable and
    can be easily persuaded into COS.

    This really had nothing to do with your response.I was just sort of throwing my thoughts
    out.I enjoyed your perspective along with others here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2007
  18. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Of course not. I don't mind at all.

    I just posted my response. I hope you don't mind.

    Others will post their responses too.

    I do read a lot of your posts as they are interesting to me. However, I may disagree from time-to-time.
     
  19. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    :) :) :)

    I had a realization from your response.

    I come from an era of Scio that did not contain any restraints. Any piece of tech could be used at any time, in any situation. Consequently all the BS about the dangers of use of the Tech are not part of my universe.

    The Corrections List I wrote - I have been using much of since 1961.

    Using those questions with different Prefixes has led to at least 9 Wimbledon Tennis Championships. (Connected to being the number one tennis player in the world has a......)

    At least 60 millionaires. (Connected to building a fortune......) Including many ex-Mission Holders.

    6 NY Times Best selling authors. (Connected to writing a best seller.....)

    1 PGA Tour win. (Connected to winning........)

    1 Olympic Gold Medalist. (Connected to being the fastest runner......) Helped produce the oldest person ever to win the 100 Meter Olympic Gold Medal.

    Each of the above had tremendous abilities in their areas of interest, the Tech allowed them to pull the stops off them and rise to greater heights.

    One of the biggest mistakes Scio's make when they leave Scio is they discard their knowledge and abilities. After all it is your knowledge and your abilities. Scio does not own it - it is yours.

    Use it, use your knowledge and abilities in an understandable form with people.

    Alan
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2012
  20. Romuva

    Romuva Patron Meritorious

    Alan,it's interesting.I looked over some of your questions and thought about
    some of the answers regarding goals or purpose.ect.
    Even when I questioned some of the questions ,I liked the answers.:)
    That's what I like about some of Scientology.It's harmless and all you
    are doing is coming up with some answers that may or may not be helpful
    to your own interest.I don't think there's any harm in questions that you
    can give voluntary answers to.You don't even have to agree with them if
    you don't want to.

    Personally ,I still feel LRH can go **** himself but I like the way people
    like yourself throw out ideas that people can look at and see if it comes up
    with some helpful solutions.

    I like the idea of something just being part of yourself.A person coming up
    with their own ideas and solutions.To me that is the part I forgot about
    my experience.I could choose my own life.

    just out of curiousity.Does anyone remember a book like that?It was
    titled "Choose your own life" was it written by a scientologist?
    I thought I saw it in a mission,one time.Maybe I was imagining it.:screwy:
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2007