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Golden Dawn

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Thanks for getting this thread on track, Gadfly. I think it's good to discuss the occult elements of Scn.

Scn had a number of influences and elements. Then it became what it is. Something else. Its methods stand or fall on their own.
 

grinder

Patron
I gripe a little and see what happens? Occult, satan, how can it get more bizzare. What next? Real UFO's? Hubbard coming back as the anti christ in the apocolypse?

I was just nattering a bit, didn't mean for you all to get a serious mind on it!
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks Hapshepsut and Gadfly for moving the discussion along.

Gadfly I agree entirely in your differentiation between main occult streams and scientology and between the original occult techniques and modern use of them.

Yes the motivation of the occultist is crucial. We see Ron's motivations clearly in his affirmations and they are dark or left-hand self-centred motivations.

It is very interesting given the occult roots of the subject how un-occult it appears to be on the surface. Deeper or at the upper levels I think it gets quite occult but only in the specialised restricted areas of thought control (implants), Elementals (BTs) and will-power (at cause).

I think Ron's genius was in using occult techniques without relying on taditional occult terminology and concepts. I think this is why most scientologists have no idea that they are involved in a Black Magic cult!

Lower level scientology is a mix of pop psychology, pop religion and self-help but from his affirmations it is clear that Hubbard was using people's psychology to make them his slaves.

Lower level scientology also includes a lot of trance inducing techniques such as repetition of written words and trance processes like TRs and objectives. The lower levels also rely heavily on suggestion. These are low level magical occult techniques that we know Ron studied and used before scientology.

It's on the upper level secret grades that it gets interesting. This is the inner esoteric school where only prepared candidates are admitted. Their preparation is that they have proven to be suggestible (not PTS and making "case gain") in the outer exoteric school of Life Repair to Grade IV.

The upper levels being designed by an occultist black magician are not as they are presented to the candidate. They are layered or even the opposite of what the candidate is told. This is because Hubbard's motives were control and power, so he lied to his devotees in order to manipulate them for his black purposes as laid out in his admissions.

Even Power (developed by John McMaster) was usurped by Ron. Power and source being key concepts for the left hand path magician. The candidate is initiated into the recognition of source so that his psyche is opened to the source that Ron is going to implant (if not implanted already).

We can look at the meter phenomena as not being what Ron told us they were. A rise, or stuck needle and tone arm indicates resistance to the concept being "processed" into the person. The floating needle indicates acceptance of the concept. Ron told his adherants that they indicated mass and release respectively. But they truly indicate non-acceptance and acceptance.

So on Power one is "processed" from resisting sources to accepting sources so the initiate is now readied to accept the source Ron wants them to accept (him).

It's a magic trick where things are other than presented. The EP or cognition is unimportant, that is just a significance. So if the person cognites that they are source or that everything is source or whatever, that is just fine, because the real EP is that the person accepts sources. He is not free or "at cause" as promoted by Hubbard, he is in fact "at effect" of any source Ron implants in him. The repetition of the questions is the key componant, this wears down resistance to source until acceptance is achieved.

And so on for each initiation (Grade chart level).

The, accepting of source, candidate is now given details, sources (esoteric secrets) of times when his thoughts were controlled (implants). The candidate resists each of these incidents one by one (rising TA, stuck needle) until the repetition hypnotises him into accepting the incident (F/N).

This is done incident after incident with significance to give them an importance and meaning to aid the acceptance. His resistance is worn down by further and further acceptance until he is brought to the initiated state of accepting any and all incidents and his needle floats persistantly no matter what incident is suggested, he can accept any of them. This is the EP (graduation, intitiation).

In order to accept implants the candidate must first mock them up, create them. So he accepts that in the past his thoughts have been controlled. Initially he resists this, but the repetition wears down his resistance. The F/N indicates that he is now willing to have his thoughts controlled. He mistakes this as being freed from the thought control.

Now we have the source accepting, thought controlled candidate who believes he is freer, when in fact he is more controlled than ever by the Black Master Magician.

Now the master introduces elementals or entities to the candidate for OTIII initiation. He weaves a tale of significance into the mix to make it more esoteric and important in order to wear down the graduate's resistance. But the candidate has been prepared to accept Ron as source and to allow his thoughts to be controlled by the Master.

So the candidate during intiiation mocks up the entities, resists them and then by repetition accepts them. He thinks or is told by the Master that the entities are being blown, but actually the entities are being accepted. On and on, elemental after elemental, the candidate is mocking up or attracting more and more elementals.

The Master (Ron) believed elementals were his slaves. So the initiate is more and more being controlled by the master through his control of elementals, while the initiate is convinced he is being freed from the elementals.

The actuality of elementals and whether they are being released or stuck to the candidate is unimportant, the significant thing is that the initiate now believes in them and relies on the Black Master as regards them.

This is the key thing. The initiate believes he is freed from them, but the important thing is he now totally accepts them.

Formerly the Black Master then initiated candidates into will-power grades in order to produce drones of himself through which to project his will. As per his admissions.

But the Black Magician was having his magic rebound upon him because of his impure motives. He was ill, dying, mad. In his desperation he himself mocked up more elementals as the cause of his troubles rather than face his own misuse of esoteric occult methods.

So David Mayo helped Ron find these troublesome elementals and further intiatory levels were developed for his adherants which of course they accepted because they had been initiated into accepting them.

The Black Magician didn't recover and died failing to recognise the effect of his dark magic.

His initiates are stuck and some follow the Master's madness.
 
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Hatshepsut

Crusader
lionheart
Formerly the Black Master then initiated candidates into will-power grades in order to produce drones of himself through which to project his will. As per his admissions.

It would be interesting to create an Olympic Game where all the OTs powers of intentions were put to tug-o-wars. Let em take up their causes.. Let em rip! Create and Destroy each other's intentions. Its the carrot that attracted the real money... the ability to make things happen for oneself!!:happydance: Instead of American Gladiators it could be Intentionators!! Look some truth in the face. The simple desire to be the WINNER!
I am reminded here lionheart by your posts of the psychic battle (causing substatial damage) between Mcgregor Mathers and Crowley... Moina Mathers and Dion Fortune... L. Ron Hubbard and Xenu. This was not phalanx warfare....it was not Tone 40. It was through the elementals and the ethers. It is a hope that the barbaric methods of the latter are replaced by a more mature style of competitiveness.
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, Hapshepsut, what we don't know is what Ron did with the elementals involved in OTIII.

He told the initiates that the elementals were being blown off, released. But we don't actually know that.

Given that he had his own hidden occult agenda as revealed in his Admissions, we can only speculate what he did with the elementals.

Maybe he harvested them from the OTIII's for his own occult means, maybe he was sticking them to the initiate, again for his own means of control of the intitiate (The OTIII Pre-OTs).

All we know is that the candidate at OTIII is initiated from generally not accepting the existence or influence of elementals to an acceptance of their existence and effect.

We also seem to have elementals who are indoctrinated in the OTIII processing into accepting that they were implanted. So OTIII seems to be producing vast numbers of elementals who accept that their thoughts can be and have been controlled.

"Elemental Spirits are your slaves" LRH
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
There super posts by Gadfly, Hath, and Lion certainly put the lie to the theory expressed by VC that people connect Scn and Occultism/Satanism because of Nibs interview in Penthouse.
Obviously, a ton of reading on the subjects of the Occult has been done by the 3 mentioned posters, and the conclusion that they have drawn from that is that there is connection between Scn and Occultism.
"Case Closed"

Chlng
 

Gadfly

Crusader
There super posts by Gadfly, Hath, and Lion certainly put the lie to the theory expressed by VC that people connect Scn and Occultism/Satanism because of Nibs interview in Penthouse.
Obviously, a ton of reading on the subjects of the Occult has been done by the 3 mentioned posters, and the conclusion that they have drawn from that is that there is connection between Scn and Occultism.
"Case Closed"

Chlng

That doesn't really mean much.

There is also a "connection" between the occult and the USA if one notices the US one dollar bill (the "eye" in the pyramid on the back). There are actually many more connections with the occult if one researches the links to Masonry and the formation of the USA. Many card-carrying Christians see that as "bad" (since supposedly one learns at the 33rd degree in Masonry that "Lucifier" is the "good guy"), whereas I see a great deal of it as "good". The typical stance of conspiracy theorists is that all aims towards a "New World Order" are "bad". Heck, IT IS ONE WORLD. What is wrong with getting rid of typical myopic urges towards ones own local nationalism, ethnicity and religion? In truth, it is often limited personal views and attachments along these lines (nationalism, ethnicity and religion) that to a large degree CAUSE all the trouble (conflict, arguments). But, this isn't about that.

To me the comparison between occult "initiations" and Scientology upper levels is LOOSE at best. There is a similarity in that one must complete the EARLIER levels before moving on to the next level. But heck, that is common in MANY areas of life - one must complete addition before moving on to algebra. One must complete "division" before moving onto "fractions". A great deal of ANY sort of knowledge builds on earlier knowledge.

The ONLY similarity really is that as with occult and esoteric traditions, the advanced "level" or "degree" is SECRET, and one must show having successfully achieved the earlier level or degree to be permitted to "move on". Part of that seems to be tied into the very nature of things and is somewhat of a necessity - though I have no doubt that MANY occult leaders USE the "secret" aspect as a means of control and manipulation (the hidden carrot on the stick).

For example, in certain Chakra exercises, one must concentrate upon or hold onto the "color" or "energy" of a certain Chakra (energy centre) while "moving" this color through the other Chakras. If one is unfamiliar with the traditional characteristics of the Chakras, and is also unable to concentrate WELL, then the exercises cannot be properly done. One MUST master earlier levels and abilities to do the "next" exercises properly and to some result. With "mental techniques" it is far trickier, and most people NEVER take ANY action to learn about, much less improve or master, such "abilities" as "placing attention at will", "concentration", or "imagination".

A tradition in occult matters states that, in the past, various information and techniques were kept "secret" to prevent the "immoral, uncouth, and selfish" from misusing the abilities and power the techniques supposedly delivered. There is some dispute about that, as with all OT type powers, who really ever gets them? Also, much modern information says that the "secrecy" no longer matters, because so many people are "ready" to apply the techniques. To me, MUCH of this may be airy-fairy nonsense. But, my gut tells me that some of it is NOT.

All modern visualization and affirmation techniques are based on what was previously held "secret" by various groups (Rosicrucians, various magicians, etc). Now the use of this stuff is widespread and common.

Hubbard stated somewhere that the power of any "secret" lies in the desire of a thetan to WANT the mystery that is "hidden". The whole "mystery sandwich" scenario. Possibly, in Scn, the main reason for secrecy with various levels is NOT to prevent the untrained from harming his or herself (as is sometimes claimed), but primarily to "hook" the Church member with the "secret" and "hidden" data. I have no doubt that a great deal of "secrecy", in the past too by occult societies, has been to lure and ensnare others.

I agree with Claire. Scn has to stand or fall AS IT IS. Where it came from is really quite meaningless. I do not consider "occult connections" as negative in some general way, since from where I see it, there are many positive aspects to "occult information", just as there are "negative". And in the end any person will JUDGE the "good" or "bad" of some aspect of the occult largely on ones own (limited and slanted) education, knowledge, experience, indoctrination, beliefs, biases and fixed ideas.
 
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Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
As I understand it, the symbols on the dollar bill are Masonic. But they did get into occultism, some say. An excellent book on that is Born in Blood. Really good.
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
Very interesting thread.

I've always suspected that Hubbard was involved with other groups besides his creation, but this was very, very secret.

I heard a story one time that members of the Sea Org once submitted a petition to him wanted to promote him to Admiral, but be supposedly declined, saying Commodore was good enough.

I wonder who the Admiral is?

Also, one of the traditional requirements of the '8=3' grade of 'Magister Templi' or Master of the Temple, was for the Adeptus Exemptus to found a school of philosophy. I wonder is the cult was Laffy's attempt at that.

If so, I suspect he passed.

The original subject of this thread was about the Golden Dawn, and the cult cross. It is clearly modeled after the Hermetic cross that is used in the Second Order of that occult order, as well as several others.

The Scientology symbol has an s in it that looks a lot like a serpent. Indeed, the serpent was the hieroglyph that eventually evolved into the s and z, and represented the s sound, which sounds a lot like a serpent hissing, and is also representative of a regular vibratory rate.

In the Bible, the serpent is associated with Satan and evil, whereas in many occult traditions, east and west, it represents the kundalini force that sits 'like a coiled serpent' at the base of the spine. The awakening of this energy, and it's rise through the nervous system resulting in enlightenment is the ultimate goal of all authentic occult and alchemical practices. This is done by the manipulation of vibratory energies; light and sound (Gadfly touched on some of these techniques).

Btw, the 'fruit of the tree of life' that the serpent beguiles Eve to 'eat of' (put inside of yourself?) might be a reference to the chakras, associated with the nerve ganglions on the 'tree' of the nervous system being awakened, resulting in 'the knowledge of good and evil'. And, since 'Adam' means 'man' in Hebrew, and 'Eve' means 'woman', it could be that on one level, it's a parable for all mankind. Perhaps the development to the age of accountability, or something.

Perhaps.

The 'OT' symbol of a T inside of an O looks a lot like the scarab symbol that figures prominently in the OTO and other occult orders using Egyptian symbolism in their rites.

I knew a former Caliphate of the Ordo Templi Orientis (like a Grand Chief, or one of three leadership positions over the whole order) who said that Hubbard was an 'ultra-thelemist', meaning that he believed his will to do anything gave him the right to do it.



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Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Well, didn't he say in the vague propagandized history/ies that are given to the faithful in the cult that he had studied other things before Scn? So I wasn't surprised when I heard about the OTO stuff when I first got on alt.religion.scientology. I gather that some people truly were surprised and disgusted- all I can say is that I wasn't. It seemed like a natural progression for me. Particularly when I read the affirmations.
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
As I understand it, the symbols on the dollar bill are Masonic. But they did get into occultism, some say. An excellent book on that is Born in Blood. Really good.

Have you ever read the two documents 'Fama Fraternitatis' and 'Fama Confessio' of the 'Meritorious Order of the Red Rose and the Golden Cross'?

One of the things mentioned is 'All members of the Order shall meet on day C, or write the reason for their absence'.

I was told that 'Day C' meant the hundredth day after the Spring Equinox, and that Order members would convene on the next convenient weekend to that.

July fourth, 1776, meets this criteria.

Just sayin'



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Veda

Sponsor
Well, didn't he say in the vague propagandized history/ies that are given to the faithful in the cult that he had studied other things before Scn? So I wasn't surprised when I heard about the OTO stuff when I first got on alt.religion.scientology. I gather that some people truly were surprised and disgusted - all I can say is that I wasn't. It seemed like a natural progression for me. Particularly when I read the affirmations.

Yes, Hubbard was supposed to have studied the great thinkers of all time, and the vanity lists (essentially "name dropping' for PR display purposes) in front of 'Science of Survival' and "Scientology 8-8008' are taken very seriously by his gullible disciples as proof of their guru's extensive studies, and as confirmation of Scientology as a serious and respectable subject.

Why isn't Aleister Crowley on the list?

If there were a true list, it would consists of maybe a half dozen names, and Crowley would have been one of them.

As for Hubbard's 'Affirmations', it's a pretty sick and warped document, revealing a sick and warped mind.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Penthouse: "Did he [Hubbard Sr.] encourage you to use drugs?"

Hubbard Jr.: "Well, he used them with me. He was a real night person. We used to sit around at night, sit around his office or home, get loaded up, and talk... He started out by mixing phenobarbital in my bubble gum, when I was ten years old. This was to induce deeper trances in order to practice the black magic..."

From L. Ron Hubbard Sr.'s 'Affirmations':

"Your psychology is good. You worked to darken your own children. This failure with them [Ron Jr., and his younger sister Katherine] was only apparent. The evident lack of effectiveness was 'ordered'. The same psychology works perfectly on everyone else. You use it with great confidence.

...

"Darkness is a cloak you may don. Your guardian and your own courage protect you utterly in darkness. You control anything you meet in darkness for that is part of your universe.

...

"Your writing has a deep hypnotic effect on people and they are always pleased with what you write.

...

"Your psychology is true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIwmsBLvcr4

As a non-sequitur comment, at the beginning of the first 'Philadelphia Doctorate Course' lecture: "...the prince of darkness. Who do you think I am?" [audience chuckles].



There is a polar opposite to every affirmation. The level of this man's self-doubt was phenomenal.
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
There is a polar opposite to every affirmation. The level of this man's self-doubt was phenomenal.

Exactly.

There are three reasons for composing an affirmation. Either to correct a perceived weakness or solve a problem or to express a desire.

So Hubbard's affirmations show us that he was plagued with self doubt and problems and that his ambitions were selfish at the expense of others.

He had deep sexual problems, doubts about his ability as a writer, worries about his health, and his psychology was riddled with what he later came to call "evil purposes" to control others and elevate himself.

I agree with Gadfly that the occult can be a positve thing, but it can undoubtedy be the opposite. Hubbard's occult connection does not signify a bad thing in itself, but when combined with his USE of the occult in his "admissions" and in scientology, one can clearly see that he was using the occult for selfish and evil means.

This is why it rebounded upon him and why he was plaugued with so much insanity and illness in his scientology days. It was due to his misuse of the occult.

Similarly scientologists, because the school is a misuse and slefish use of the occult laws, are liable to suffer insanity and illness. The key component is motive.

We can see Ron's motives in his admissions and in his scn Policies. Any occultist would see that he was a doomed occult magician because of his motives.

For a scientologist, most or many have good motives and this provides some protection for them from the black side. However Hubbard's occult teachings (scientology) are laced with evil motives and as a scientologist progresses there is a tendency to become more and more ruthless/selfish and he/she is encouraged to do harm (for the good of scientology/Hubbard).

The more the scientologist alligns himself with Ron's evil motives, the more in jeopardy of occult kick-back he is setting himself up.

This is why the occult nature of scientology needs to be exposed, so that the scientologist can become fully informed as to what may happen if they use these occult techniques for selfish or evil ends.
 
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Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Yes, Hubbard was supposed to have studied the great thinkers of all time, and the vanity lists (essentially "name dropping' for PR display purposes) in front of 'Science of Survival' and "Scientology 8-8008' are taken very seriously by his gullible disciples as proof of their guru's extensive studies, and as confirmation of Scientology as a serious and respectable subject.

Why isn't Aleister Crowley on the list?

If there were a true list, it would consists of maybe a half dozen names, and Crowley would have been one of them.

As for Hubbard's 'Affirmations', it's a pretty sick and warped document, revealing a sick and warped mind.

I suspect Crowley wasn't on the list because Hubbard thought it would be bad PR. I suppose it would have been but this does lead me to wonder...

what would have been better? Taking a chance on alienating people early on and fessing up about the Crowley influences? Or what he DID do which was to lie about it which has pissed off and alienated a number of people?

He obviously thought the former. And I think the reason for that is that in his hubris, he never thought that it would turn to crap as it did. That was foolish of him as he had observed many times what happens when you constantly apply duress to people and lie to them.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
I suspect Crowley wasn't on the list because Hubbard thought it would be bad PR. I suppose it would have been but this does lead me to wonder...

what would have been better? Taking a chance on alienating people early on and fessing up about the Crowley influences? Or what he DID do which was to lie about it which has pissed off and alienated a number of people?

He obviously thought the former. And I think the reason for that is that in his hubris, he never thought that it would turn to crap as it did. That was foolish of him as he had observed many times what happens when you constantly apply duress to people and lie to them.


I suspect Crowley wasn't on the list because he was one of Hubbard's actual sources. The others mentioned would require a long study to glean any meaning, and by the time a student had completed the research, Hubbard would be covering his tracks and long gone.
 
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