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Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by SweetnessandLight, Aug 10, 2009.

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  1. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    Like I said, I don't have my materials handy. Thanks for checking out the reference. Sory that mine wasn't helpful.
    If you look at the explanation that I gave, you will see the 'tek' of it.
  2. This is very good advice for us all! :thumbsup:

    From a recent thread complaining about a member's postings:

    " Originally Posted by Moderator 3

    Let's give it a rest. God invented the Ignore Poster function for people on Message Boards who can't easily tolerate others' viewpoints. It's a gift to humanity, accept it as such."

    Amen to that! :clap: :yes:
  3. "Hi OSA, want to know who I REALLY am?

    Ok everyone,

    I'm jumping in. Maybe some of you already know me or know/have known my ex husband.

    I am from Montreal, Quebec, Canada and my name is......roll drum please......

    Jocelyne Bouthillette (you can find me on Facebook)

    So, why do I want $cientology to know who I am? OSA or whoever you are that are spying on us, I want OUT and when I say out I mean I want to be DECLARED! Yes, yes. you have read right. I want an SP declare. I want that billion contract stain on my soul gone!

    I also take psych meds thanks to $cientology GAD. I have seen psychiatrists, had therapy. So, you can add that to my SP declare resume

    I have talked AGAINST the church of Scientology, David Miscaviage who I consider a royal pain in the ass. A liar, manipulator, dictator and using everyone around him to his adavantage. He is not there to help YOU. He is there for himself. Wake the fuck up! I also talked against the OT levels which I believe are dangerous to your mental health.

    David Miscaviage is NOT L Ron Hubbard, so why do you even believe everything he says? Go to the source. And who is the source? L Ron Hubbard. Not that I believe everything he wrote and said. I believe in the beginning there was a few good things. I truly believe that but than, he lost it somehow.
    Apply this one thing LRH said 'What is true for you is what you have observed yourself and when you lost that, you have lost everything'. Yes, yes, that is the original saying. I think DM has altered it like he has altered ALOT of LRH materials.

    Tell me this? How in the world can David Miscaviage would have known that some orignals writings were altered? I am talking about the 'revised' books. You really really believe LRH did not check what he wrote? Who do you believe most? LRH or DM? Personnally, I would go for Ron. There is only one source and YOU know who it is. Wake up!

    The Church of Scientology is corrupt to its chore and you are to afraid to stand up for yourself. I will never ever ever support a church that hurts people the way you do. There is so many I do not want to go into it. Plus, Scientologists that are trained for it are VERY good at lying. Did you know there is an actual TR to teach yo how to lie? Oh yes there is.
    Yeah a chuch teaching you to lie. WEll done!

    I am disconnecting from you! That is MY decision. Not yours. I could go on and on cause I have alot of emotions bundled up. I want to scream, I want the world to know the TRUE face of the 'Church'. Maybe just maybe than, some good can come out of it.

    So, today, Saturday, October 4, 2014, I am disconnecting for good from the 'Church of Scientology' and I will not shut up when I see something is wrong and hurt people. Never. Never ever. And believe me, if you try to hurt me or my family in any way, shape or form, I already took some precautions. I am no idiot. I know about 'fair game'.
    So, the law will know WHERE to look if something happens. Now, tell me you are not criminals when a person has to protect herself and the people she cares about from you?

    Isn't it Ron that said 'more communications, not less'? You really want all this to end. COMMUNICATE. Communicate the TRUTH. Stop lying cause people or as you call the 'wog world' aren't stupid. You have win a price for a bad reputation over the last few years. I am not making this up. It is just you are not allowed to read about it. Because it is consider 'enturbulating'. No it is not. You can think for yourself and separate the truth from the lies if you take the time to look at both sides. Unfortunately, you are not allowed to. I feel sorry for you.
    At the same time, I understand cause I have been in your shoes in the past.

    So, send me my SP declare since I am officially disconnecting from you and will keep speaking the truth until someone finally get the whole picture.

    The truth always win in the end. Whether it is days, months or years.

    Jocelyne Bouthillette"

    :clap: :thumbsup: :happydance:
  4. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

  5. Wants2Talk

    Wants2Talk Silver Meritorious Patron

    Merry Exmas!
  6. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader


    I miss Gadfly posting here. :bigcry: I hope he's having a very merry Christmas and Happy Holiday wherever he is and whatever he's doing. He gave us a lot and we love him. :biglove:
  7. eldritch cuckoo

    eldritch cuckoo brainslugged reptilian

  8. Originally Posted by Veda:
    "Udarnik, do you know what "Grade 0" is?

    Your warnings would have more credibility if you did."

    Sweetness replied:

    "Veda, I perceive that he means studying Scientology as a means of transforming oneself into a superior than human being who can wield magical powers. I totally agree with him...studying and embracing Scientology as any kind of a system of knowledge or "self-improvement" IS drinking from a poisoned well. All the beginning processes, which may be relatively harmless compared with later "processing" , are a slippery slope to madness.

    He's not just playing around with the grades, his "goal" is to go OT!!!

    Just because there is a raisin in the turd doesn't mean that one should pick it out and eat it! (I love you, Arnie Lerma!)

    IT'S A CULT, IT'S A CULT, IT'S A CULT!!! Whether one is joining up body and soul to Corporate Scientology, the CULT of the so-called "Church of Scientology", meeting up with small groups of apostates, or one is just messing around with it on one's own over the is still getting involved with a CULT!!!

    I would NEVER, in good conscience, encourage any naive or ignorant but enthused person to study or practice Scientology...either on their own or with a "co-processor", excuse me "co-auditor" that they located over the internet.

    Especially as a substitute for whatever it is that is lacking in them and needed in their lives, as a substitute for real world counseling, drug or alcohol treatment, education, job training, better social skills or whatever else might be needed for an individual to flourish and prosper, which is the way most people utilize Scientology...hoping they can bypass the hard work of self-discovery and discipline that the rest of us human beings must manage and master to some successful degree in order to do well in life.

    Ron's body of work, taken in it's entirety, is like a fairy tale that so many misguided and DELUSIONAL people desperately want to believe is true... I would advise the OP to read a great deal of the life wisdom and experience that is shared by MULTITUDES of former Scientology Cult members here and elsewhere on the internet. It's a wonderful free education in and of itself! Be wise enough to learn from other's mistakes.

    Very troubled people are drawn to Scientology. Because it seems like secret knowledge, a "path" to having magical powers that other people do not have access to, a hidden short-cut to the hard work of living successfully. Having that as a desire and life quest is the sign of a very troubled person, in and of itself!

    People who are seeking secret magical paths to powers and "success" often don't want to admit to themselves just how troubled they really are. (I include Ron himself in this group!)

    But many of the rest of us mere mortals can see it readily. Udarnikki and I are two such souls.

    Big hugs to you anyways, Veda!

    ocO1, I do indeed wish you good luck, and wish you well as you learn the truth about Scientology...that it is something Ron made up to make money of off gullible, needy and hurting people, a lie, a fraud, a con game. It hurts people FAR MORE than it helps them, in the long run. Even innocent people who are not Scientologists!

    Do yourself a favor, peruse thoroughly Arnie Lerma's website, he has been there and done that:

    and then this one:

    and then come back here on ESMB and tell us about your wins!"

    These were my views a year ago...since then I have met many more Ex-COS members, and gotten to know them...some of whom still like the "teck" (or parts of it) and still practice it in their own way, after a fashion.

    While I appreciate and value my friendships with these people, I still feel more strongly than ever, that "doing" Scientology, ie working your way up the damned bridge, either in or out of the COS Cult, is dangerous to one's self and to others around you, as being ultimately destructive to one's own real (reality based, not imaginary) personal growth and mental, emotional and spiritual well-being.

    I don't want to be a hater...I generally like and love people overall...and do wish them well.

    But I do think it's perfectly justified in this instance to HATE what hurts and harms people, as Scientology surely does.

    No offense meant to anyone reading here.
  9. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Sallydannce said:

  10. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Smurf said:

  11. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Scientology Wrecks the Fight Flight Mechanism

    Sallydannce's healing provided us all with some terrific pearls of wisdom to help us heal.

    None has been more helpful to me than what she wrote here:

    Thank you, Sallydannce. You have no idea how much you've just helped me and I hope this helps many, many others as well.
  12. On the "How many people went type III (ie. had a Psychotic Break) in your org?" thread, Just Sheila said:

    "People were disappeared on a regular basis.

    One day we'd be working with them, the next day they'd be gone. One day they'd be on the session line-up, then have a D of P interview, then they were gone.

    When we were green, we asked about them openly. Then we were warned, or hushed, or told the GO or Ethics or OSA handled it. If we persisted, we became "ethics bait" ourselves, pulled into ethics interviews or sessions until we were okay (silent) about it, like everyone else.

    Some were RPFed.

    Some blew.

    Some were locked up in small rooms to scream while nobody answered or talked to them.

    Some ended their own lives.

    Some, who demanded refunds or threatened to go to police or the press, were murdered, or had such questionable suicides at such convenient times that we could not accept them as suicides. Others were too clearly murdered for anyone to call it a suicide.

    In 1980 when I worked as the Director of Income USGO for a year as AOLA staff, without authorization from the USGO higher-ups, I consented to a pilot program by the CMO where the USGO's ex-staff could pay off the monstrous bills they had been given for leaving staff by paying only some 5-10% of the bills.

    The first person I contacted paid her bill off in full on the first day and I gave her an official letter on USGO stationery stating it was paid in full. Let's call her Melanie.

    Valerie Lisa, then FP Chairman USGO, was livid. She did not want any exGO staff getting auditing as public. She was afraid all the secret projects against individuals would be revealed. She did not want Melanie to have normal status and demanded these exGO get permissions and sec checks before being allowed as public.

    Melanie told me that prior to this, no exGO staff had ever been public Scientologists. "What happened to them?" I asked.

    "I don't know," Melanie told me in a hushed voice. "They disappeared."

    Even years after leaving the Sea Org, it never quite hit me what that meant.

    Just a few years ago, I learned of a suicide of an exGO friend in the early 80s. I vividly remember the last day I saw Al Crivello, just weeks before the suicide. I'd gone to his office just to say hello and drop off some paperwork, but accidentally interrupted a heavy meeting he had with two other intimidating GO staff. Al's face was grave.

    "Is everything okay, Al?" I asked, knowing it wasn't, but not knowing what else to say. In a strained voice, he reassured me it was and insisted I go away, as the two GO staff hussled me out of the office.

    That day was the last time I saw Al. The $2 Yoda poster I had given him as a gift on his last birthday was still hanging on the wall of his office.

    Weeks later, he was dead. Suicide. Apparently that day I saw him, he'd been told to go to the RPF and refused, so was Declared SP. Uncle Al. He was near 70 years old. How was he to do an RPF program? The one we all so fondly nicknamed "Yoda". The man who always made sure the kids at the CEO had money, even if he paid other org's bills. The only man who ever paid SO staff medical expenses. The man who bought us new uniforms. The only one who actually gave general SO staff bonuses since the first Saint Hill. Al Crivello was loved for good reason.

    He was dead. And there I was, not even knowing the horrible way he died until decades later.

    Yes, people disappeared from the Church of Scientology. Good people. Kind people. Our friends. We were told to look away. I'm not looking away anymore. I'm looking at the long, long list of people who were conveniently disappeared, whether abandoned, broken, murdered, harassed, chased or in any other way ruthlessly, unfairly victimised. I'm looking right at the Church of Scientology as I look at these names and we all look at these names and see so many familiar people whom we knew, worked with and loved. I'm looking right at them. We're all looking right at them. They will not be disappeared or ignored for even one day now. They will always be remembered now. I am personally ashamed of the days when I looked away and believed the fairy tales. It was all lies. They hurt our friends and the world will know it. Eat that, OSA.

    Last edited by JustSheila; 15th January 2015 at 01:16 PM."
  13. eldritch cuckoo

    eldritch cuckoo brainslugged reptilian


  14. eldritch cuckoo

    eldritch cuckoo brainslugged reptilian

  15. Northern Shewolf

    Northern Shewolf Patron Meritorious

    Shewolf want to express her gratitude for this wonderful thread! :happydance::yes:
    Many thanks to all.:hattip:
  16. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    I just LOVE this one from NonScio!
    I'll entitle this, "So Many Axes"

  17. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    This has to be the best quote ever in the history of ESMB !

    Quote Originally Posted by Emma View Post

    Hi ktmrandy.

    I just want to make sure you are aware of who this board is for.

    It's for EX Scientologists. People who were in the cult for years, some 30 even 40 years. They lived it. They don't want it anymore. Most don't even want a "kinder, gentler version". Most recognise it as a scam.

    If you are here to understand why these folks don't want anymore Scientology in their lives, and you are genuinely seeking answers to these questions, then feel free to hang around.

    If you are looking to spruke the virues of Scientology you are in the wrong place.
  18. Originally Posted by Lermanet_com

    "This is the source of my 'attitude' toward critics:
    Where the fuck were you guys, while they were trying to "destroy me utterly" along with my business, family and friends...??
    end of rant
    Good Job Chris! Thank you for being here, here, take THIS baton.. and take this to the finish line.
    This is a good time for me to say this, as I don't think I've expressed it this way before."

    Galatic Patrol replied:

    "We have arrived at a place now where Scientology is truly the subject of ridicule, contempt and amusement to the world at large. If they think about Scientology at all, they know that it is something unsavory and if they look into it even casually, they universally determine that it is something sinister, creepy and even dangerous. With the power of the internet and Google, all of the data we know is only a few keystrokes away. It has never been easier and as a result, the information is widespread. Scientology Inc ran a massively successful Dianetics marketing campaign in the 1980s which received hardly any backlash or negative feedback (at least not that I remember). Now look at the overwhelming negative response to their stupid Superbowl ads, universally panned across the Twittersphere within seconds of being run. And there are so many more indications than this across all media.

    None of this would have been possible without a number of factors, everything that evolved over the last 40 years. All of the hell that ex's and non-Scientologists who were dragged into the sordid messes of the Church had to endure totals up to an almost epic story of torment, stalking, harassment and much worse. This isn't even melodramatic or exaggerated. The GO/OSA operations carried out from the 70s on Paulette Cooper through to the present on so many others such as Larry Brennan, Gerry Armstrong, Jessie Prince and Arnie Lerma and Tory (to name just a small handful) - all of this is what put enough information out there for Anonymous to take the ball over the finish line in 2007 and explode all of the abuses internationally with their protests, videos and personal exposure. Everything that has happened after that has basically been the bonus round for those of us who exited more recently, a chance for us to get our licks in and have our voices be heard to speed up the process that was already started years earlier.

    Everything that happened had to happen in order for the next thing to happen. When I finally routed out in 2012 and started being persecuted by the Church in 2013 after I was public, it was only because of all of what was out there that I was able to so rapidly educate myself, conclude that I had been used and betrayed by a totalitarian organization which I had no idea was anywhere near as bad as it was, and then move forward with my life.

    So bottom line is, I can't thank everyone who came before me enough. We all owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to all of them for surviving their ordeals and continuing to fight the fight. We may not agree on everything and who said we ever had to? We sure as hell agree that Scn Inc is an evil, totalitarian organization run by a sociopath. We agree that L. Ron Hubbard didn't have the best of intentions and in fact, was engaged in mass manipulation under what could very kindly be called "devious circumstances." We all try to dissect our experiences in our own ways to understand and rid ourselves of whatever demons we still carry around and given the individual and personal nature of what we all endured, of course we are going to come to some pretty different conclusions. There's not only nothing wrong with that, but I think it would be pretty weird if we all universally agreed on everything. The people who are universally forced to agree are the ones INSIDE the cult, not the ones who escape from it.

    I'm also very thankful for this message board, which was itself so instrumental in 2013 to my having not only a place to learn but also a place to express my outrage and be understood. Not having this, I don't know where I would have turned to for understanding. I hope it doesn't sound presumptuous for me to be speaking in "we" and "us" above. This is just my sense and understanding of things. Thanks everyone.

    Thank you, G P!!! :thumbsup:
  19. Originally Posted by skollie
    "This is all I could find on it." (Operation 4D) :

    Veda wrote:
    "Haven't read the above in a long time. It's remarkable to see the same denial re. Ron - would never do such a thing - Hubbard's involvement in Guardian Office activities, echoed by some today, particularly in Marty-world.

    'Intelligence, Its Role', was a lengthy 'Guardians Order' written (anonymously) by Hubbard, and then there's this, also from Hubbard, and more.

    It's remarkable, and disgusting, how Ron Hubbard played his most trusting friends - they thought - and allies.

    I wonder if the "Ron didn't know"-faction has figured out a way to blame the covert dirty tricks Ops, done in Clearwater in 75/76, on Mary Sue and Jane Kember? Or are they blaming that on Michael Meisner? or on other "SP infiltrators"?

    It should be ancient history, but the denial continues. Of course, per Hubbard, this part of Scientology was supposed to be denied, being even more secret than Xenu, etc. At least Xenu (as part of OT 3 and the Wall of Fire, etc.) was an advertised secret. This category of Hubbard "scripture" is supposed to be a secret secret.

    In any event, I don't recall much about 'OP 4 D' except that (as I dimly recall) it seemed like something given to Diana Hubbard to keep her occupied - something that eventually became an mild annoyance to her father."