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Good experiences in Scientology

Discussion in 'Stories From Inside Scientology' started by Veda, Aug 14, 2017.

  1. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Emphasis mine.



    Apparently once a person hits a certain age and/or they have accumulated enough baggage ... it starts to haunt them to a greater or lesser degree (unless they're an actual psychopath).

    People I know and love, who have never been near a cult are often haunted ... some by big things but many by what could be viewed (by another) as trivia, that's at least part of the reason why religions manage to gather a flock in the first place ... for the comfort of guaranteed forgiveness.

    Try to let yourself off the hook if you possibly can and (nauseating as this probably sounds) ... let others off it too, if you have any from your past lurking in your mind ... I doubt if any of us are anywhere near as bad as we think we are in those dark moments.

    :wink:

    PS There is no thread rule ... if you want to talk about an issue you can, nobody owns a thread and I doubt the mods would mind if at this point it veers slightly (people will usually bring it back on track if it's still got some life in it).

    Book! Book! Book! (just a subtle reminder).



     
  2. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    :hug: :console: :hug:
     
  3. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Well, whether "in" or "from",

    I'd say my experiences were mostly bad.

    I gave a fiduciary duty, you might say, that is giving trust in paying money as well as time and effort chasing the goal of a "cleared planet" and myself going "clear" and then "OT". Never happed for me nor anybody else, unless somebody can prove me wrong, and please do!.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fiduciary_duty



    As far as I'm concerned, Hubbard has the fiduciary duty, I gave him complete trust in what he said, and yet he said at the very end of his life, he failed. But he's dead and one can't sue him for fiduciary duty.

    Myself, I thought I was the beneficiary of his so called knowledge and certainty and bridge to total freedom.

    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/fiduciary+duty

    "An individual in whom another has placed the utmost trust and confidence to manage and protect property or money. The relationship wherein one person has an obligation to act for another's benefit."



     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  4. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus Cleared Tomato

    That movie was intense and I really loved it. I was never in the SO and did not even put that together while watching it, but of course I thought about Scientology and cults/cult think and brainwashing. I couldn't help not to. Now the movie has taken on a new dimension. It was so good, I don't mind watching it again with that in mind.

    It's interesting when you bring up making friends after leaving. I wrote a whole chapter on this (whether it's staying in the book remains to be seen), but I had an awful time with this. It hit me by surprise. I always had "wog" friends when I was a Scientologist, but I think I just always knew how to angle those relationships - perhaps because I had a protective shell. That protective shell was false however. I had a false sense of confidence thinking I had all the answers to life and the universe. I probably thought my poor wogs friends just didn't know any better and wanted to stay behind, or I didn't tell them I was in because I was aware they'd think I was a pod or something.

    When I came out and I was completely vulnerable, I trusted nobody. And making my first friend was an entirely terrifying experience. I bumbled it up. I didn't know when to tell her that I'd just come out of Scientology after 20 years. I didn't want to scare her away, but I did. I didn't gauge her or the situation correctly and got burned. I learned that you can't just tell people you used to be in. I don't know about now since Going Clear and Leah's show has been out, but for a while there if you told someone you used to be a Scientologist, they'd laugh, think you were a weird curiosity and ask you if you knew Tom Cruise.
     
  5. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    :thumbsup: Yeh, it's a stunning movie. :yes: I'm glad you enjoyed it. There were so many nuances, so many accurate portrayals of how someone responds and thinks after years of being trapped in a boxed-up, limited environment. I thought about the Sea Org kids who spent most of their time in their cribs and when they were finally taken to the park, how they clung together and were terrified of sunlight, terrified to crawl beyond a space the size of each of their cribs. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-05-18/scientology-chiefs-daughter-attacks-church/832774

    There is always time for book sequels. I can see how a mind-numbing experience with limited interaction with the environment and others would have a long-term effect. Maybe the concept from the movie will help you tie all your chapters together in a different way, or you can cover it in your book #2.
     
  6. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Absolutely!

    I would never take that fork in the road again. All those years of filling my head with garbage. When I went in I was an athlete - when I left I was underweight, gaunt and sickly. It took many years to get back on track and who knows what opportunities I missed.
     
  7. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    Oh, I guess one of these fabled " good experiences in scientology " is that I attested to 'clea'r. yep, I was one of them 'clears'.

    Here I was high & mighty above all scn'gists who hadn't achieved ' clear , yet. And those 'wogs ' ? Dear Ron - pitiful !

    Never mind the nagging thoughts that what I experienced as ' clear ' didn't match anywhere near what Ron had said it was.

    I just lied to myself & kept going !

    My good experience was I learned to live with lying to myself, ignore it, & doing another's bidding. What a skill set !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  8. JackStraw

    JackStraw Silver Meritorious Patron

    Wow! reading through this thread this song kept pounding through my head:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKlM3U72QtQ


    "...Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats,
    too noble to neglect,
    deceived me into thinking
    I had something to protect
    Good & bad I defined these terms,
    quite clear, no doubt, somehow,
    Ah, but I was so much older then,
    I'm younger than that now."
    -B. Dylan


    Jack
     
  9. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Too often those most opposed to Scientology are incapable of recognizing, and thoroughly describing, key parts of its disguise/lead-in layer.

    Having its key disguises not recognized or adequately described - to the vulnerable - helps Scientology.

    Parts of those disguises include good people and some good (common sense) ideas.

    Being unable to see that, or being unwilling to recognize that, reduces one's effectiveness, when it comes to inoculating the vulnerable, and freeing the already trapped.


    [​IMG]
     
  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I would agree, the cheese, but whats the glue?

    That could keep people still wanting to do scientology, even in the freezone or indie?
     
  11. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    .
    .

    I respect what you are saying.

    But, the fact that someone doesn't always take time to mention the "good experiences" doesn't mean anything other than they didn't mention the good experiences.

    Maybe they were in a hurry. Maybe they intentionally left that part out. Different situations require different tools.

    Personally, here is my take. Let's say at one time, in order to travel back and forth to work, I had to commute every day through a section of Death Valley--one of the world's 3 hottest places with summer temperatures of 134 degrees or more.

    In this scenario, let's further imagine that there is a "REST STOP" in the middle of my daily journey where one could pull off, use the restroom and/or buy some water/food.

    What if there were innumerable true and verifiable reports that people had grown horrifically ill or died as a result of visiting that rest stop--due to food poisoning or lethal rattlesnake bites while walking across the parking lot.

    WHAT WOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE THING TO TELL PEOPLE ABOUT
    THIS "OASIS" REST SPOT IN THE MIDDLE OF DEATH VALLEY??

    My election would be to put up a HUGE RED SIGN in the parking lot that read:


    !!!!! DANGER !!!!!

    !! FOOD POISONING !!

    !! HEAT STROKE !!

    !! DEADLY RATTLESNAKES !!

    !! ANY OF THESE CAN KILL YOU !!

    !! GET BACK IN YOUR CAR !!

    !! DO IT WHILE YOU CAN !!

    !! YES YOU !!

    !!!!! LEAVE NOW !!!!!

    www.deathvalleywins.com

    However, out of respect for offering a full and balanced view of Scientology and not failing to leave out its good parts, the url at the bottom of the warning sign would link to a website that posted the wins of people who recently visited the rest spot and may not have died.

     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
  12. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    It doesn't require the mentioning of "good experiences." "Good experiences" is just the title of a particular thread.

    What I wrote in the prior post has to do with reaching people who are vulnerable to Scientology.

    Giant signs that say, "IT WILL KILL YOU!!!" have not been effective for such people.

    I first noticed this in the early 1970s when a collection of books were published condemning Scientology. I watched, one after the other, as people who had read one or more of these books, then became involved with Scientology.

    These were not stupid people.

    Who knows? Perhaps you were one of them?

    Hadn't you heard bad things about Scientology before you became involved, and deeply involved, for years?

    Why didn't hearing about those bad things keep you out?
     
  13. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    .



    1. No, I never read any critical books about Scn before I saw a copy of DMSMH. I don't think anyone ever even heard about such books. Of course being a teen ager in high school, nobody had heard about much of anything on any subject you could possibly name.

    2. No. The only thing I heard about in those days was new songs being announced/played on the radio. Hendrix, Stones, Airplane, Zeppelin, Cream, et al. When I heard about Scientology I started to read the Scientology books, lots of them. It sounded cool, so I decided to try it. Same way I listened to albums and sometimes decided I wanted to try it (see the group in concert). Before you mock my scientific method, please know that after World War II I was left blind and crippled, abandoned by friends and family. And I can walk and see now, so whatever I did must have been ingenious, right? lol

    3. I didn't hear any bad things. I only heard miraculous things from the books and the Scientologists I met when I first began going into the centers. And not only that, the girls looked hot so I decided to try both.


    As far as the subject "WHAT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO SAVE SOMEONE THE NIGHTMARE OF WASTING A HALF A MILLION DOLLARS AND 40 YEARS ON HUBBARD'S HOAX?" ---I think whatever works must be right. Personally, I usually run one of the one-shot-blow commands in the first 60-90 seconds. (e.g. How much do you think it costs to do all the levels in Scientology to the top, where they say you get miraculous superpowers?")

    They won't know. I ask them to guess. They try but always guess some ridiculously low number. A number so low that if Scientology actually charged that, all Scientologists would become criminals from the out-exchange!

    After they can't even guess how much Scn costs, I tell them. At least a half-million dollars.

    If they are still curious, I tell them I did it and it doesn't work.

    If they are still curious, I tell them that 98% of Scientologists blow after trying it.

    IF they are still curious, I tell them about Xenu.

    When they stop laughing and repetitively asking "RU SERIOUS?!!!", I tell them I am.

    Total time invested: Less than 2 minutes.

    Result: An defrocked apostate that never even got as far as getting a frock.
     
  14. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Nor did I.

    But after reading a bunch of Hubbard's books, I headed to the public library and read everything I could find on Dianetics and Scientology, in old magazines and any books that were around.

    There was a lot of information. Many others did the same thing.

    Sorry, but lots of people did.

    When I first heard of Scientology I was 15, and first visited an Org and bought a book after just turning 18.

    That didn't stop me from investigating the subject as best I could.

    Were you living in a remote area with no libraries?
     
  15. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    A vulnerable person will only look at the cost of the next possible course, etc. There are numerous rationalizations for why the amount of money is unimportant.

    If you had been told that, when you were "raw meat," would it have made a difference?

    And, specifically, what is "it"? To a vulnerable person only one thing is needed to have demonstrably "worked" to his satisfaction, for the "It doesn't work" line to fall flat.

    Would having been told that been enough to dissuade you when you were a vulnerable young person? Not likely.

    The book History of Man - "This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last sixty trillion years." - was available in any Org book store. Did that drive you away?

    Nice imaginary scenario, and no doubt some of this will succeed, sometimes, and that's great.

    But why not have an additional tool or two, and a bit of nuance or subtlety?
     
  16. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    .


    I don't get it.

    You did all that impressive due diligence, yet you STILL tried to become a Clear and an OT? So, how did all that research you did help you, if that's the case? It obviously didn't

    But, eventually you (and all the others here) eventually caught on to the fraud, sociopathy, sadism, terrorism, fair game and worse.

    See the point? The point is there there was (back in the day) wholly inadequate critical information available on the REAL Scientology. And whatever there was, was scarce and/or not easily accessible. The point I am making is that even with your concerted effort, visit(s) to the library--you still got completely scammed, just like everyone else.

    All that, in my book, means wildly inadequate information.

    I've spent my entire professional career doing countless "due diligence" projects for many business ventures, investments and other commercial projects. So, I am no stranger to how its done. But regardless of whether there is a local library or not, it doesn't matter most of the time if there are highly trained/skill con artists that prey on the vulnerable, young, naive, gullible and stupid. It's not even a close match.

    Give me a librarian on one side and a Sea Org registrar on the other and I'll show you a first round stoppage by TECH(nical) KNOCKOUT every time.

    Today's world is entirely different. Because of mass media, self-publishing, the Internet and immediate access to big data. Now, it's possible to do a decent job of researching from one's own home. And quickly!

    Back then, fuggedaboudit.
     
  17. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    ANSWERS EMBEDDED IN YOUR POST:

     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
  18. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    That was the theme of the You knew, and still joined thread:

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?36145-YOU-KNEW-AND-STILL-JOINED

    There was a large amount of information there, enough to dissuade anyone, one would think, but if you had been there instead of me, I don't think you'd have been dissuaded any more than I was.

    Actually, that's not accurate. While there was a delay in the transmission of information, there was still plenty of damning information available.

     
  19. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    To some people - apparently here on ESMB - scientology is a good thing.

    Facts won't change their mind. Truth won't change their mind.

    Oh, what will change their mind ? Dr. Hubbard.

    Oh, he's dead ! Now you understand why they can't change their mind !

    Their Hip Hip Horay tends to fall on deaf ears these days.



    The good news for those still under the influence of the cult of scientology is that the effects of brainwashing does not have to be permanent !

    scn is based on brainwashing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
  20. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    Re: Good experiences in Scientology are sold by the brainwashed.

    Those in scientology selling the " good " of scientology are Brainwashed.

    Those who have been out of the cult a day, week, month, year, years or even 3 or 4 decades & are still selling the good of scientology ?

    Brainwashed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017