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Good things in Scientology

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Veda, Feb 28, 2013.

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  1. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    “Spirituality is recognizing and celebrating that we are all inextricably connected to each other by a power greater than all of us, and that our connection to that power and to one another is grounded in love and compassion. Practicing spirituality brings a sense of perspective, meaning and purpose to our lives.”
    ― Brené Brown, The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You're Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are
  2. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    “We cultivate love when we allow our most vulnerable and powerful selves to be deeply seen and known, and when we honor the spiritual connection that grows from that offering with trust, respect, kindness and affection.

    Love is not something we give or get; it is something that we nurture and grow, a connection that can only be cultivated between two people when it exists within each one of them – we can only love others as much as we love ourselves.

    Shame, blame, disrespect, betrayal, and the withholding of affection damage the roots from which love grows. Love can only survive these injuries if they are acknowledged, healed and rare.”
    ― Brené Brown, The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You're Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are
  3. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    That sounds awful new-agey. I think I'll go watch "What the Bleep do we Know"
  4. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    “Courage starts with showing up and letting ourselves be seen.”
    ― Brené Brown, Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead
  5. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    For the past week or two, I...uh...been tryin' ta figure out who hijacked FreeBeing's account or stuck a pod under da bed...
  6. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    Oh, yah. I see what you mean.

    (I think I was just pulling my punches and attempting to give the benefit of the doubt, kinda.)

    But yep, makes sense.
  7. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Most of us are changing as we dump more and more twisted hubbardy thinking ... any anger or upset eventually disperses because most of us know it's unhealthy to hang on to it and are finding ways to move on regardless of real (or imagined) loss.

  8. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I wasn't kidding. I went and watched "What the Bleep do we Know".
  9. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    my bold. You are not correct there Veda. Hubbard acknowledged antecedents.,d.aWc&fp=a3ee529ed0bcb611&biw=959&bih=644

    He gave credit to 50,000 years of man's thinking in his his books. One assumes he read it all, the Vedics, freud, korzysbiski, adler, all the names he mentions in his lectures. Forgive my spelling. How do we know he read it all, and studied it all?

    One assumes he figured it out. One assumes he read it all, 50,000 years of man's thinking in books.

    But hubbard says he used inductive logic or reasoning, made it sound so astute he was. .


    Did you know Veda, that everything I post is based on 50,000 years of man's thinking on the secrets of the spirit and MEST universe, there are no secrets. I have lived with the worst people that you couldn't believe, I have seen magicans do things that you wouldn't believe. My organization is based on ancient technology that worked for hundreds of thousands on years, but they forgot one thing, and I discovered it and fixed it.

    I lived thru the worst engram and I discovered how to walk thru it so that you can to. LOL

    I am sure no one has discovered it before me. LOL
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  11. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    That's really great when someone gets "destimulated" enough to stop stalking people on a forum and harassing them. What a welcome change. Truly. See, people can change!
  12. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I know your post is tongue in check :), but I'll quickly add this for any lurkers:

    The lists of great thinkers in Science of Survival and Scientology 8-0008, and the statements about 50,000 years of thinking men, were made early on, when Hubbard had a fragile and tentative membership. These lists gave Hubbard gravitas and stature - or were supposed to - and did not reflect accurately Hubbard's studies of other thinkers. IIRC, John Sanborn, Hubbard's editor, was assigned the task of assembling an impressive list of names.

    To examine antecedents, suggest seeing the 'Sole Source Myth' thread. It contains much info, and many links, including links to other threads addressing the subject of antecedents.

    Anyway, now, I've broken my promise to no longer post on this thread. :blush:
  13. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased


    Are you saying that Hubbard's editor compiled a list of impressive names to give weight to Hubbard's philosophy but that Hubbard may never have actually read or familiarized himself with this list and their works?
  14. Moderator 1

    Moderator 1 Guest

  15. Xenu's Boyfriend

    Xenu's Boyfriend Silver Meritorious Patron

    Re: Snippage from Good Things in Scientology thread

    I want to take a moment here to acknowledge Margery Wakefield. I just finished her book The Road To Xenu: Life Inside Scientology and I think it is an important work. For obvious reasons, it will not get the attention that Jenna Miscavige Hill's book has gotten, but I was surprised when I discovered it, because I hadn't seen her name mentioned before. I would never rank the importance of Scientology memoirs, everyone has a unique story to tell, and I am grateful for the works by Headley, Scobee, Many, Hawkins, Duignan, and others, but Wakefield book had a special impact on me.

    Her book gave me a real sense of what it would be like to walk in off the street and become a member of the church and eventually the Sea Org - the day by day experience and the devastation that results. For some reason I understood in this book more than the others the process of brainwashing, how the mind can be broken down gradually through hypnotic suggestion and mind control. I want to thank her.

    I have a new relationship to this thread and the comments posted here as a result. First of all, I think that there is a difference between saying, "Good Things in Scientology" - like someone would have a memory of their experience fighting a war. They might not agree with war, but there may be fond memories of camaraderie, being focused together to achieve a certain goal, being part of a group...I can understand that.

    But I think when people start talking about the TR's, the Tone Scale, Auditing, as part of the "good stuff", I think it gets much more complicated. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I am limited by the fact that I am not writing based on personal experience, but the more I read, the more I realize that Scientology isn't some buffet where you take the parts that work for you and leave the others as many have suggested here. It seems to be a methodical process, with levels that build one after another, leading one deeper and deeper into hypnotic states, and to achieve what aim? To exploit human beings for money. That's it. Slavery is a corrupt business but it's been around for awhile. With Hubbard's version, he has created an elaborate system where, after awhile, you basically enslave yourself. And if you do wake up and want to leave, violence and coercion is there to keep one in line.

    I've often been on the fence about Independent Scientology after having had a very firm reaction against it when I first arrived in the forum. It's taken all this time to come full circle back to where I started. I feel that Marty is still dangerous as a Scientologist, because, as I see it, he continues to perpetuate the myth that there is value in keeping Scientology "working" and alive. His determination to keep Hubbard on a pedestal, to position him as a great thinker of our times, is just flat out sick. The hardest thing to read in these biographies, are the stories of young children, babies neglected, teen-agers sent to the RPF. What kind of person could create a "religion" where children are not to be rewarded (given toys, books, or treats) because they are "downstat" (unable to produce) and therefore shouldn't be treated with love....or put in chain lockers on ships and unable to use the bathroom as a form of discipline? Only a madman.

    The real curiosity about Scientology is not that it exists, but that is able to exist in the United States and other countries where these kinds of human rights violations are supposed to not legally take place anymore. The fact that someone at this very moment is being held on a Scientology compound against their will says a lot about our willingness to protect our citizens, whether they say "it is my will that I allow myself to be exploited like this." I do feel that Scientology's day of reckoning is coming and that is comforting, because it is easy to feel despair from what has and continues to take place.

    So my point is that I think this thread "Good Things In Scientology" is bizarre and destabilizing - for example, the way we have been arguing whether brainwashing and mind control exists, especially in the context of Scientology, is just incredible. I feel sometimes that discussions about Scientology can "shapeshift" and an intellectual conversation can lose the core of horror that comes from the experience. You have to go back and locate personal memories or uncompromising narratives to remember why so many people have experienced such deep and devastating spiritual, emotional, psychological and financial loss as a result of Hubbard's "work".

    So, in other words, I've come to the conclusion that there is no Independent Scientology "movement". You can't be independent and be involved in Scientology, period. There is only Scientology. Marty Rathbun is wrong, Hubbard was not a pioneer or great thinker - he was a sociopath, who continues to harm people with his work. To be involved in Scientology at all is to still be a Scientologist - Marty may have added more water to the Kool-Aid, but that's doesn't change the flavor. If Marty's role is to be a way station or "underground railroad" for those who are leaving the CoS, so that they don't have complete mental breakdowns, I can appreciate that - auditing them as a transition to get their lives back on track. But to the extent that he draws new people in, furthers the perpetuation of the tech, and/or acts as an apologist for Hubbard, I think what he is doing is destructive and deeply problematic.

    "Good Things" in Scientology? I appreciate why this would be a provocative and engaging topic, but I do feel this is like saying, "The good side of the Nazi Party", or "Positive Aspects of being in the Mafia" or "Happy Memories in the KKK." This isn't a judgement of people who were in Scientology, I'm talking about the need to not let Hubbard or Scientology off the hook. I understand the argument that there are things like the Communication Course which may have value, and which definitely helps lead people in. Maybe this is what is meant here by "good things". But I still feel that a line gets crossed when we enter "Rathbun" land and start taking about too many things that "work" - when most of what's working is part of the mental enslavement.

    To go on about the value of the tech in any form, without major qualifications, is a disgrace to the memory of those who have lost their lives and families to Scientology.
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  16. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    Re: Snippage from Good Things in Scientology thread

    Not everyone who does Scn outside CofS is affiliated with Marty Rathbun.

    I look askance at MR, too, in the main. But I don't consider that he speaks for or represents all Indies (my term) or Independents or FZers.

    I render unto Marty that which is Marty's. (which includes any applicable censure). I do not render unto Marty that which is not Marty's.

    It's far easier to consider Scn'ists as individuals when they aren't part of an organization. That's not a poke at anyone- I often do find it a bit difficult to refrain from thinking of them as some big amorphous clot of people when they're in CofS or something like that.
  17. Re: Snippage from Good Things in Scientology thread

    The sad thing about this is one could make a case for the Nazis being responsible for our modern interstate freeway system, or their rocket science being the basis for our space program, but after 60 plus years there isn't a single fucking thing of value Hubbard's Cult has provided. If they shut their doors tomorrow and took everything Hubbard created with them, there wouldn't be a single thing anyone would miss.
  18. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Re: Snippage from Good Things in Scientology thread

    Having someone to criticise? Just kidding, there's ALWAYS someone to criticise! :biggrin: