ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



View Users: View Users
  1. Anonymous100

    Anonymous100 Patron

    Dear all.
    Firstly I want to thank everyone for being on this forum and helping newbie outs here. Ive been looking around for a while and thank you.

    I was wondering if you think that grade 4 (sur facs and making wrong etc) was put just before 'going clear' so that once you went clear you wouldn't go 'this is shit' and 'sur fac'....in other words - finding all the times you have made wrong is repetitive and hypnotic and regardless of whether the tech works in relieving one, at least one becomes aware of that concept of making wrong, so one then doesn't make scientology wrong as one goes up the bridge. All part of the brainwashing technique that scientology is right....

    I've see that scientology feeds narcissitic personality traits but grade 4 would perhaps bring one down a notch or 2 so that one can be built up the scientology way? Or is it just a coincidence and I'm reading too much into this.

    thank you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  2. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

    Hi Rose and welcome,

    The term is Ser Fac for Service Facsimile though Surface Facsimile might do as well as a name for automatic responses.

    Maybe I just used one of my Ser Facs to correct you, no?

    In any event, anything that removes old fixed ideas leaves you open to the new.

    If that makes you open to brainwashing is debatable.
     
  3. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    It was while training on class IV that I first concluded that Scientology itself was a colossal ser fac, by their own definition.
    It was a giant make wrong against all who were not on board with their over the top psychosis.
    Only by being a clam in good standing who's putting maximum monies available on account while ratting on your friends could you ever be right according to the "ser fac" components of Scientology.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  4. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    There was a time when you went Clear, first, and then did the Scientology Grades. NED before the Grades.

    The irregularity here is that it does say in HCOB 24 Sept 78 III “Dianetic Clear”: “The Dianetic Clear, on achieving this state, can be audited on Scientology Grades 0-IV.” And in HCOB 25 Jun 70RA (Revised 6 Oct 78) II “Glossary of C/S Terms”: “After Dianetic Clear, you can run Grades 0-IV.”. The question is WHY, WHY, WHYwould one do that? Were you not already a Clear?

    http://www.wiseoldgoat.com/papers-scientology/hubbard_vs_nwo2_lost-bridgec.html
     
  5. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    My ex post rationalisation of that was that the grades are designed to key out "case", and that case could include BTs' case, which wouldn't be handled by Dianetic Clear. Which is why I think a lot of the grades processes are repetitive. It seems to me that (supposing for the sake of argument that all this stuff is what it says it is) the only justification for a repetitive process would be that it runs the incidents of large numbers of BTs, one by one, which is why going earlier-similar isn't done in repetitive processing, because it's not the incidents of one being. But again supposing that all to be true, I would have thought that it would have made more sense to hat a Dianetic Clear up on the BT stuff, and THEN have them run the grades as a prelude to OTII and III, fully cognizant of the fact that it wasn't necessarily their own incidents that they were running repetitive-style.
     
  6. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

    A Dianetic Clear no longer has reactive attention on their body while a Scn. Clear is a "Clear Theta Clear".

    I imagine a Dianetic Clear as being a small clear spot in a rather larger pond.

    The distinction is a bit vague, of course, as is the actual achievement of these wonderful states.

    These are states that are more something one aspires to achieve rather than being able to purchase them as an item from the Scn. Store with a huge sack of gold.

    Otherwise it is hard to explain why top OT would need a repair list.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  7. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    I was just responding to the OP where it was surmised that Grade IV was a conditioning to accept the Clear indoctrination. Used to be Clear and then Grade IV.
     
    F.Bullbait likes this.