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Has the game changed? What's going on between Miscavige and his lawyers and PIs?

Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Harry Truman said it, but Alex Gibney could also lay claim to it: "I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell."

More truth = Less Scientology
 

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
I had so much "fun" with Tom Booth and Semioldguard that I was really frustrated that one ...individual can completely disrupt a thread or two .

And I had several threads either centered around tearing down the con or exposing Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige as 100% certain bona fide murderers get instantly derailed HARD .

If you accept the assumption I am not OSA you can see how that can be frustrating .

I now post almost everything I write at ESMB and my blog and at the Underground Bunker and in a half dozen Facebook groups so a troll/OSA operative would need to face a tough road to derail me entirely .The Bunkeroos would slice and dice his ass .
 

Phoenix8

Patron with Honors
@eldritch

Yet: many of the motions and accusations filed by Scio lawyers, directed by DM or not, have been pretty weird, full of rhetoric gibberish and nonsensical distractions - ever since.

I feel this way this too....it is a logicalfallacy called "begging the questions" or "poisoning the pot"...pure distraction!

I thought I was or maybe am paranoid since I still have family in the CofS and I risk being declared. That's why I am still trying to cipher through topics and check non biased opinions; as in, "do I feel like this is a legit person?; "is their story credible or argumentative, nonsensical?"; can I relate to their ideas?"; "is the media source credible?" Etc etc. Finding corroborated material like alternate media and first hand accounts is essential (For me).

I always keep in mind this is a very very public forum with open topics with easy access to a plethora of ideas, stories and opinions. -- It could be anyone (scn lawyers, OSA, the genuine exes, and those trying to seek answers or help to leave "the church." Personally, I am in the category of ex-SO but ignored scn press or anything press completely until going clear aired (partly because of fear from scn going full crazy and partly because I want to leave that life behind as I have for half my life).

On another note, I believe "conspiracy theories" offer value because conspiracies offer curiosity and allows someone to dig beneath the surface and fact check the respective theory.

Admittedly, I am one of those types who dives into information all the way. I'm an information junkie. Give me a subject that interests me or I have a personal connection to that I care about....figuring out fact from fiction makes me satisfied.

In any event, the label of "conspiracy theorists" is fine and curious until corroborated fact finding ensues. Then, it is called a "conspiracy fact" which is actually a terrifying fact..like the Mormon church or Monsanto lobbying. Or perhaps the theory is bs ? The anecdote is fact checking, plain and simple.

I just love to cipher through bs and get to the real nitty gritty. Knowledge is power, without it you may be blind See what I mean? (There is no single "source" or "knowledge"....ever. That's why I'm grateful to the brave ex-so execs who haave spoken out either by media or litigation; As well as this free forum.

Ok now to continue your rant lol!...(I read half so far)
 

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
On the subject of trolls, I think it's worth mentioning that sometimes someone comes onto this board without first getting a good feel for the general tone of ESMB and they can appear to be a troll when they're not.

I remember someone going nuts at me soon after I joined, accusing me of being an OSA operative, brainwashed etc etc. It was really nasty and all because of something I said which they totally misunderstood. But if I'd had more experience of the board then maybe I would have written my posts in a different way.

So my point is simply that we take care not to unjustly label people.

Ok, that's my good deed for the day done.:angel:
 

Phoenix8

Patron with Honors
I'm still brand new here so after I read the tom_booth posts I got a bit hung up on jibaro, who I guess has left cause we're all closed-minded bigots.... Sigh.

Have you guys watched this?

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooUximeUnyQ[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]If you haven't, Chris does a great job of breaking down OSAs online tricks from days past.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]They seem to have two main prongs: overload boards with meaningless shit and push the actual discussions out of the way. [/FONT]They seemed to no even bother with this strategy.

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Prong 2 is to divert or pollute the conversation. This seems to be tom_booth and jibaro's main MO. And from what I can tell these cats can't make it to 15 posts without someone getting suspicious.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Needless to say this strategy is pretty weak and failing. [/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]My opinion is that they've hired some net "experts" (experts in quotes because I assume any tech savvy person knows who the Co$ is and knows to stay away) to do some SEO for them.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]I've noticed that my google results for "scientology" have changed a lot over the past few weeks.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]That strategy is the most worrisome for me.

[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]IMHO anyone on this forum is a lost cause in terms of joining the church.

The focus, OUR focus should be educating the public.

I have some personal experience in online marketing (not so much SEO).

Would anyone be interested in teaming up with me to formulate an SEO strategy to push all the anti-scion sites to the forefront?

Cheers you guys, I love this place :)
[/FONT]

I've been pretty annoyed by jibaro too. Every thread = confusing demeanor and responses. "Poisoning the pot" logical fallacy galore. I wrote a response to his/her thread yesterday "a first question" but decided not to post because it only adds to the chaos of psycho. That's not why I'm here...so I decided to stop responding.

I'm too new and too busy to bother looking up "tom_booth" because I don't really give a shit about trolls...in all honesty. Lol
 

Veda

Sponsor
I've been pretty annoyed by jibaro too. Every thread = confusing demeanor and responses. "Poisoning the pot" logical fallacy galore. I wrote a response to his/her thread yesterday "a first question" but decided not to post because it only adds to the chaos of psycho. That's not why I'm here...so I decided to stop responding.

I'm too new and too busy to bother looking up "tom_booth" because I don't really give a shit about trolls...in all honesty. Lol

:) Here ya go. Click "find started threads" if you dare. :ohmy:http://www.forum.exscn.net/member.php?13373779-Tom_Booth

Was Tom_Booth a troll? He said he was a part time staff member at the Harlem Org. He also believed he was the reincarnation of Aleister Crowley.

Plus he gave the Harlem Org phone number and invited people to call him there, and some did.

Later, the Harlem Org, after using him as a handy man for a while, kicked him out.
 

Phoenix8

Patron with Honors
:) Here ya go. Click "find started threads" if you dare. :ohmy:http://www.forum.exscn.net/member.php?13373779-Tom_Booth

Was Tom_Booth a troll? He said he was a part time staff member at the Harlem Org. He also believed he was the reincarnation of Aleister Crowley.

Plus he gave the Harlem Org phone number and invited people to call him there, and some did.

Later, the Harlem Org, after using him as a handy man for a while, kicked him out.

I feel so dirty having just clicked through his posts. He wrote Some LONG winded responses often confusing the conversation. Yes, I think that is trollish. Or maybe he's a nut job. Either way, I think that's exactly what he wanted to do: misinform, confuse and dilute topics of interest.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Geez, I hadn't looked at this in a while.


[video=youtube;J8JIIcUTDsA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8JIIcUTDsA[/video]
Another day at the Harlem Org


I feel so dirty having just clicked through his posts. He wrote Some LONG winded responses often confusing the conversation. Yes, I think that is trollish. Or maybe he's a nut job. Either way, I think that's exactly what he wanted to do: misinform, confuse and dilute topics of interest.

No need to feel dirty.

Probably Tom_Booth is back on the apricot farm - or whatever it was - in upstate New York. I don't think he did any harm and the responses to his crazy?, or naïve?, or trollish? questions or comments sometimes were interesting.

Just looked at the 'Meditation, Yoga, and other practices' thread. We gave this fellow an education. I don't think anyone - other than himself perhaps - was confused. :)


IMO, it's not likely that Hubbard practiced meditation. His preferred "tech" was hypnosis, of others and also self-hypnosis.


In 1954, Hubbard had spoken publicly, respectfully, of Buddhism, and even of Taoism, and also of the Vedas.

He wanted to show that Scientology followed in the long tradition of these subjects, and even briefly spoke positively of Christianity. The 1954 'Creation of Human Ability' book opens with a quote from St. Luke of the Bible.


However, during the 1954 Phoenix Lectures, Hubbard couldn't resist depicting himself as being responsible (by implication) for the arrival of the Vedas on Earth, and at a much earlier date than usually recognized:


"It does happen that there are a set of [Vedic] hymns which as I recall were introduced into the societies of earth in about 8212 BC."


The next year, Hubbard wrote The 'Hymn of Asia', where he depicted himself as the re-incarnated Buddha. Seems as though not only did Hubbard originally bring this knowledge to Earth "in about 8212 BC," he also, as Gautama Buddha, continued to develop it and popularize it. However, such gloating and boasting was not meant for the "homo saps," as Hubbard called them, but for the "homo novis," the Scientologists, who were to regard it as special, whispered, inside information, meant only for the "elite of the elite" of Earth - namely themselves. In other words, while gratefully beholding the wonderfulness of Hubbard, Scientologists were allowed to respectfully participate in Hubbard's ego-bloat.


During 1955, Hubbard not only wrote his (meant for Scientologists' eyes only) "ruin utterly" and "always attack" 'Manual on Dissemination of Material'; he also wrote the fraudulent 'Russian Textbook on Psycho-politics' where he depicted Scientology as a target of the Russian Communists; and, also wrote the 'Hymn of Asia', where he depicted himself as the reincarnated Buddha.

It was quite a productive year.


By 1961, however, in a lecture (23 June 1961), Hubbard denounced Buddhism as a control mechanism devoted to keeping people quiet.

"And of course, how quiet can you get? Dead. And you just might say, it's a covert effort to kill everybody off," Hubbard told the Scientologists.

Yet, there was a back and forth on this, as Hubbard, when emphasizing his "religion angle," would abruptly mellow on ("wog") religions and become appropriately tolerant of them - when it suited his purposes.

Meanwhile, the 'Hymn of Asia' collected dust in a file cabinet or in a box somewhere, until, in the mid 1970s, it was revived and published.

An 'Advance!' magazine cover from 1974:

advance0026000.jpg


I can be addressed
But in our temples best
Address me and you address
Lord Buddha.
Address Lord Buddha
And you then address
Metteyya.


521253047.0.m.jpg


L. Ron Hubbard, from 'Hymn of Asia'


As with his predecessor Crowley, Hubbard had expressed some critical views of Buddhism. The last was during the Dianetic Clear frenzy of the late 1970s/early 1980s, when some Scientologists, certain that they had "gone Clear" as disciples of the Buddha (of course, believing Hubbard to have been Buddha, thus making it OK), were rebuffed by Hubbard when he told them, in no uncertain terms, that one "does not go Clear by garbage eating," i.e. by being Buddhist monks (with begging bowls.)

The poor Scientologists. It's not easy being a Scientologist and being at the mercy of the whims of "Source."



Looking beneath Hubbard's various expressions of the religious cloaking PR, prior to his activation of the "religion angle," one finds Hubbard speaking to nascent Scientologists during the 1952 Philadelphia Doctorate Course:

"Our whole activity tends to make an individual completely independent of any limitation... Old Aleister Crowley had some interesting things to say about this. He wrote 'The Book of the Law'."


m0zYveK3SD3VIz6okQN1-uA.jpg

All editions of 'The Book of the Law' are blood red,
which is, oddly, also the color of the 'Tech Volumes'.​


From Crowley's 'Magick in Theory and Practice':

"The whole and sole object of all true Magickal training is to become free from every kind of limitation."


More from the 'PDC':

"The old magical cults of the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th centuries in the Middle East were fascinating. The only modern work that has anything to do with them is a trifle wild in spots, but a fascinating work by itself, and that's the work of Aleister Crowley... He signs himself 'the Beast', mark of the Beast 666..."

aleister_crowley2.jpg


Possibly the most honest moment, during the Philadelphia Lectures of late 1952, was at the very beginning of the first lecture, when Hubbard made an odd, non-sequitur, joke about being "the Prince of Darkness."

The audience of "thay-tans," listening attentively as they were promised God-like abilities and powers, chucked unsuspectingly.

It would be over thirty years before Hubbard's 'Affirmations' - written six years before the 1952 PDC lectures - and Hubbard's taste for "slaves," as expressed in those 'Affirmations', along with the truth behind his many bogus biographical accounts, was revealed in a Southern California courtroom.


A small sampling:


L. Ron Hubbard saved the Australians from the Japanese!​


From a Hubbard 'Executive Letter' of 6 October 1965:

In 1942, as a senior US Naval officer in Northern Australia by fluke of fate, I helped save them from the Japanese.


And from Hubbard's 17 February 1969 'Information Letter':

Remember I know Anzo. I once had a big share in saving its bacon from Japan. Note please that a small Jap force could have taken the lot and didn't. A handful of us, months before the coming of US troops, worked like mad to balk the Japs and change their minds.


sold.jpg



From the court transcript of Armstrong vs Church of Scientology

The Church of Scientology called one Captain Moulton as a witness.


Q. [by Michael Flynn, Armstrong's attorney]. He told you he was injured by a Japanese machine gun?

A. [by Captain Moulton] Yes, in some detail...

Q. What did he tell you?

A. That he had been in [Java] at the time the Japanese came in...

Q. So you believed Captain Hubbard at the time?

A. Certainly, I had no reason not to.

Q. Did he tell you exactly where he had been hit by machine gun fire?

A. In the back, in the area of the kidneys...


From witness, Kima Douglass (Hubbard's medical officer, 1976 - 1980):

Q. Did he [Hubbard] have any bullet wounds in his back?

A. No sir.


________​


In the 1950s, Hubbard told Scientologists:

By 1948, through my own processing, and the use of principles I had isolated up to that time, was able to pass 100% combat physical...


_________​


From Hubbard's 1946 self-hypnosis writings, a.k.a. 'The Affirmations', as read into the court record by Gerry Armstrong at Armstrong vs Church of Scientology:

You stomach trouble you used as an excuse to keep the Navy from punishing you. You are free of the Navy. You have no further reason for a weak stomach...

Your ulcers are well and never bother you. You can eat anything. Your hip is a pose. You have a sound hip and it never hurts.

Your foot was an alibi. The injury is no longer needed. It is well. You have perfect and lovely feet...

When you tell people you are ill, it has no effect on your health. And in Veterans Administration examinations you will tell them how sick you are. You'll look sick when you take it. You'll return to health one hour after the examination and laugh at them.

No matter what lies you tell others, they have no physical effect on you. You never injure your health by saying it is bad. You cannot lie to yourself...



Mr. Flynn: I'd be happy to have the whole document [all the 'Affirmations'] go into evidence

Mr. Litt [Scientology attorney]: No. No. No.


__________​


More from L. Ron Hubbard's 'Affirmations':

Your writing has a deep hypnotic effect on people and they are always pleased with what you write.

...

Your psychology is true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler.
 

Veda

Sponsor
To answer your question, eldritch cuckoo, I don't think the game has changed.

Have listened to the first fifth of the below audio. The PI interviewed by the police refers to plants - posing as friends, etc., - used in addition the PI's services. The PI mentions accessing phone conversations and emails, and insists that it's being done legally, but that's improbable.

This is the same type of activity that's been done by Scientology for decades, and was exposed decades ago - yet Scientology continues doing it.

*MUST LISTEN TO AUDIO INTERVIEW!*

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...h-scientology-pi-tells-cops-article-1.2189801

This audio interview offers a rare peek behind the curtain.
Folks, THIS is Scientology. This is the REAL Scientology that Miscavige and his battalions of lawyers tries to keep hidden from public view.

LISTEN TO THIS AUDIO RECORDING.

(Then watch for Scn trolls to say "nothing new here.")

The conversation about having a silencer (used by hit men) is typical also.

They have the silencer "just for fun." Reminiscent of a Scientology attorney insisting that the instruction by Hubbard in his 'Bolivar' Policy Letter, instructing about "tight conspiracies" and arson and killing, and "pink legs," etc., was really only meant as a humorous piece.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Thanks. It's just tl;dr right now is all. It does help to sort thoughts to write it all out. I wonder too and I would so, so love to be a fly on the wall as well (with a state-of-the-art fly minicam). Doesn't there have to be fighting and backstabbing (more than usual) going on right now?

I keep trying to find the common signs of the final days of a cult or something along that nature and can't get anything back from any of my search terms that produces any applicable results.

If anyone has such a thing, that would be nice to look at right now.

On the troll scene, I really don't see what they get out of sending trolls here. It makes no sense to me.

If the stories or rumours that public are not to watch TV read the net or papers
are true and that people are being pushed around by MAAs etc this could start
the beginning of the end. When so many who are under the radar no longer care if
they remain so and speak out or just leave this could snowball and provoke even
more orwellian confrontations.
 

mawena

Patron with Honors
To answer your question, eldritch cuckoo, I don't think the game has changed.

Have listened to the first fifth of the below audio. The PI interviewed by the police refers to plants - posing as friends, etc., - used in addition the PI's services. The PI mentions accessing phone conversations and emails, and insists that it's being done legally, but that's improbable.

This is the same type of activity that's been done by Scientology for decades, and was exposed decades ago - yet Scientology continues doing it.



The conversation about having a silencer (used by hit men) is typical also.

They have the silencer "just for fun." Reminiscent of a Scientology attorney insisting that the instruction by Hubbard in his 'Bolivar' Policy Letter, instructing about "tight conspiracies" and arson and killing, and "pink legs," etc., was really only meant as a humorous piece.

I think the guy was being honest about the guns and the silencer. For one thing he doesn't seem to know the difference between a silencer and a flash suppressor. I think his story that they were staying in cheap motels to keep costs down and he had stuff stolen in the past. Those guns are worth several $1,000s and he's correct in saying that if those guns were stolen and used in a crime he would be in hot water. Nothing odd about that.

I hope no one assumes that those guys were there to shoot DM's dad, that sounds a little far-fetched. If DM's dad were to wind up dead tomorrow that would be a lot of heat on the church. I don't think those guys are crazy or stupid enough to try that.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
I was just wondering where the rest of the quoted affirmations are, he's talking about taking something so he would fail physical examinations, but doesn't say what. British men getting out of conscription would sometimes have a packet of sugar before a medical, their heart beat would be odd and they would otherwise be pretty unhealthy, but I can't see them back to normal after an hour. Just curious because it seems to have stuff omitted.

''When you tell people you are ill, it has no effect on your health. And in Veterans Administration examinations you will tell them how sick you are. You'll look sick when you take it. You'll return to health one hour after the examination and laugh at them.''
 

Veda

Sponsor
I think the guy was being honest about the guns and the silencer. For one thing he doesn't seem to know the difference between a silencer and a flash suppressor.

-snip-

I've only listened to the early part of the audio, and he does appear to know the difference. Having a silencer means one is at least contemplating doing a "hit." I doesn't have to be Miscavige's dad.

If you or I were caught with a silencer, AFAIK, we'd have committed a felony and would be in jail. Miscavige's consiglieres came to the aid of these two, so they got off easy.

This happened a couple of years ago and we're just hearing about it now. It's safe to assume it's continuing: PIs and plants too.

But now Miscavige's father knows about it, although he shouldn't have been surprised.
 
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mawena

Patron with Honors
I've only listened to the early part of the audio, and he does appear to know the difference. Having a silencer means one is at least contemplating doing a "hit." I doesn't have to be Miscavige's dad.

If you or I were caught with a silencer, AFAIK, we'd have committed a felony and would be in jail. Miscavige's consigliores came to the aid of these two, so they got off easy.

This happened a couple of years ago and we're just hearing about it now. It's safe to assume it's continuing: PIs and plants too.

But now Miscavige's father knows about it, although he shouldn't have been surprised.

You are correct.

Possession of suppressor is a class H felony in WI. That comes with a fine of up to $10,000, up to 6 years in prison or both.

From the LA Times articles the charges were dropped because he made a deal with the DA (95% of criminal cases are plea deals):
"Dwayne Powell was indicted last year on one count of possessing an illegal silencer, a federal offense. The indictment was dismissed when prosecutors agreed to allow him to enter a pre-trial diversion program."

I'm not certain that someone with no priors (did he have priors?) caught with a silencer would get jail time. It's at the discretion of the DA and jailing people is expensive. And what evidence is there that lawyers came in? The only lawyer in the piece was DM's lawyer. If they had their own lawyers they would have been in the interview with them.

I don't like these guys but I get a sense that the young one doesn't like what he's doing. IMO. I just don't think they were hired to kill anyone.
 

Veda

Sponsor
You are correct.

Possession of suppressor is a class H felony in WI. That comes with a fine of up to $10,000, up to 6 years in prison or both.

From the LA Times articles the charges were dropped because he made a deal with the DA (95% of criminal cases are plea deals):
"Dwayne Powell was indicted last year on one count of possessing an illegal silencer, a federal offense. The indictment was dismissed when prosecutors agreed to allow him to enter a pre-trial diversion program."

I'm not certain that someone with no priors (did he have priors?) caught with a silencer would get jail time. It's at the discretion of the DA and jailing people is expensive. And what evidence is there that lawyers came in? The only lawyer in the piece was DM's lawyer. If they had their own lawyers they would have been in the interview with them.

Miscavige has multiple lawyers. One was visible. Are these guys still working for Scientology? If not, who replaced them?

I don't like these guys but I get a sense that the young one doesn't like what he's doing. IMO. I just don't think they were hired to kill anyone.

I can see the son was playing innocent before the police.

I'd like to know who it is that makes silencers "for fun."

Having a silencer makes a statement all by itself.

As for why they were hired, I never said they were hired to kill any one.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
EC,
I totally get what you are venting about!! My gut, since I joined here, tells me that there have always been like 2 staffers trolling the board with the same messages using different names. For a while they switched out handles created years ago and maybe by some other staffer entirely. They never did more than 80 posts using a name and came here to argue and push threads down that were notable.

I also think there are just lost souls coming here with a similar message but not on an actual assignment, like the few staffers I talk about above.

for a while I was keeping a list LOL

there is a thread about suspected trolls, and it's funny! But that was like a year ago.

i don't know if you remember "Kate" but she was just a real life person and not sent by anyone but herself..ever since then, I have just come to terms with these people existing and not part of OSA or any assignment to troll the forum.

i think anyone offical is too busy to come here right now.. I think the folks who are behaving this way are just average souls lost and hoping to find people who agree with them.

Just my guess.

Hello MissWog. As you recall, I touched on this myself just recently. You have made a very thoughtful assessment. I have no idea if official church Trolls are posting here. My point was that it would make sense if that strategy was adopted. Sowing dissent and mistrust and deflecting rhetoric was very prominent in the writings of Sun Tzu going back to 300 BC. They would insert agents to join the rebellion and stir them up to the point where they made a catastrophic mistake or started to persecute their own people and lost support. Now it is as easy as clicking a mouse. I read somewhere that DM has a copy of the book, The Art of War, and I have read it myself. But my greater point is that people doing this out of spite for anything Scientology related inadvertently serves the goals of management to deny and disrupt unauthorized venues for discourse. There are injustices being committed by the hierarchy and most people regardless of their status do not have the resources to do anything about it except to peel the layer off of the onion slowly and a little at a time in front of the entire world to the point where the church understands that everything they do can and will ultimately be scrutinized in the arena of public opinion. This can even include the experiences of someone whose job was to be an official Lurker or Troll. The floodgates are open.

I know for a fact that Scientology staff went directly into the legal firms that provided service to the church going back as far as the breakup of the Guardian's Office. Church legal representatives are not just good at learning Scientology policy and how to spin it - they can teach it. They have been integral to the highest managerial strata for decades and for practical purposes they are private legal firms only on paper. This should surprise no one. Even the so called private PI firms that are used to keep the church field operations at arms length are most likely manned by former staff. There is a 50 year history of overlapping staff and field activity. It is multi-generational. The Roman Catholic Church can be expected to use their most devout laity legal and investigative firms and this is no different. It also means that their legal council's strategic thinking may be unable to operate outside of the same cloistered church view to the extent that they cannot help the church reassess their self destructive trajectory. In other words, its baked into the cake.

However, all this does call for a certain diligence on the Ex Scientology community to recognize and handle Troll like behavior in their forums if they want sensible people to participate. For example, non-Scientologists may want to come here to express their animosity towards the church and Ex Scientologists may go to non-Scientology sites to do the same but both parties should be respectful of the primary purposes of each other's forums.
 

mawena

Patron with Honors
Miscavige has multiple lawyers. One was visible. Are these guys still working for Scientology? If not, who replaced them?



I can see the son was playing innocent before the police.

I'd like to know who it is that makes silencers "for fun."

Having a silencer makes a statement all by itself.

As for why they were hired, I never said they were hired to kill any one.

Believe me, in the United States, people who are into guns do this kind of stuff all the time. These are toys to them. Just google "make your own suppressor" and you will find an entire community of people who do this for sh*ts & giggles. In fact it's legal to own a suppressor in WI, just not an unregistered homemade one.

I guess, to your credit, the fact that it was homemade suggests he intended to use it. Easier to get rid of some pcv shit that a registered suppressor...

Still though, these guys are steeped in gun culture.

I'm undecided.
 
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