Hello all

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by existential_hobo, Jan 13, 2017.

View Users: View Users
  1. Hi again. I know that the family that know about it are worried and the good friends too. But none of them are local. I would say just me, but recently they've started dating long term Scientologist so me talking my ex on a holiday would be, ah... Strange.

    Though I do have an alternative in mind.
     
  2. So, back again. Sorry if I missed any posts above, I think I got most of them. I had a good long talk with my ex, explained my concerns. Apparently they didn't have a "ruin", they didn't know what that was. They joined for the communication course.

    They wouldn't take seriously the bad things I was saying, and the reply to them was that I only know about the bad things people say and don't know anything about the good things. So I made a deal. If they watch the Leah Remini series then I will read Dianetics.

    Beside my moral objection to giving money to scn, I'll happily read the book. At least they can no longer say I don't know what I'm talking about. So my newest request for help is: is there any articles that give a critical analysis of the Dianetics book with references that I can point out as untrue or just flat out lies. I want to be able to get them to question it too.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  3. Jump

    Jump Operating teatime


    Does anyone have Dr Winters' review?

    After dianetics was published, Hublard tried to get some official endorsement of his work. He asked his closest friend in the medical world Dr Winters to review it, and he gave an honest but critical review. I don't think 'the modern science of mental health' is either modern, a science or really a valid approach to mental health.

    No positive professional evaluation was ever published for these reasons.




     
  4. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't think most Scientology public will have any understanding or familiarity with the Dissemination Drill or a "Ruin" until they start reading Div 2 or Div 6 policy letters and that is usually after they have joined staff. You don't explain to public Scientologists how they are being manipulated. This is reserved for people who are already indoctrinated enough to be knowingly willing to perpetrate it on other unsuspecting people.

    http://tonyortega.org/2015/10/23/th...on-scientologys-opening-pitch/comment-page-1/
     
  5. The doctor's name was enough. I found it on clam bake. Thank you! :)
     
  6. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Regarding that " emotional blackmail " you might want to see this video. https://www.google.com.ph/url?sa=t&...iH7tM3EpmVR6F93vw&sig2=OoBSLpftUlFFhz4_-CQmbQ
     
  7. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Is it possible that ex is just head-over-heels attracted to the person being dated, and eager to please by sharing date's interest in Scn, rather than being personally interested?
     
  8. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    Tony Ortega wrote:

    L. Ron Hubbard warned us that he was a garden-variety crackpot right from the start. Go ahead, take a look at the very first words in Hubbard’s 1950 manifesto, Dianetics. Here’s what it says:

    “The creation of dianetics is a milestone for Man comparable to his discovery of fire and superior to his inventions of the wheel and arch.”


    How that didn’t prevent anyone from taking the rest of this book seriously is truly a mystery.

    http://tonyortega.org/2017/01/20/wh...t-a-20th-of-january-like-no-other/#more-37095


    The lure of the pseudoscientific vocabulary and promises of dianetics cannot but condemn thousands who are beginning to emerge from scientific illiteracy to a continuation of their susceptibility to word-magic and semantic hash.

    S.I. HAYAKAWA 1951

    http://tonyortega.org/2016/01/08/jo...s-in-scientologys-bible-dianetics/#more-27791
     
  9. AngeloV

    AngeloV Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes.

    existential_hobo: When you read dianetics, keep in mind that it is NOT a science. [STRIKE]Hubbard [/STRIKE]the Old Quack created his cult on that gigantic lie which is right on the cover of his first book. It SOUNDS like science but is is pure quackery, invented by the Old Quack as he elevated himself to godhood to stroke his over inflated ego. Every page of that book contains lies, exaggerations and hyperbole.

    As you read it, always ask yourself - HOW does he know what he says is true? The vast amount of information is him pulling shit out of thin air and declaring it to be true, scientific and "proven".

    Good luck.
     
  10. Thank you for the articles. I've added them for later reading, and a series on "ethics" as well. :thumbsup:

    Yes I did notice that a lot of what I was saying went over their head. So I'm probably not taking the right approach. Any suggestions on talking to a public Scientologist? Thanks.
     
  11. It's possible, but the timing is wrong. They were doing courses for a while before the relationship started. It could be a valid reason why they keep it up. But my ex seems to be very into scn. They believe to tone scale it true.

    To be honest, this makes me uncomfortable because who my ex dates is 100% none of my business, and talking about it makes me feel creepy.
     
  12. Don't worry I plan to be for warned with Dr winter's book, clambake's bulshit detection kit and most importantly my own critical mind. :)
     
  13. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    One approach would be to ask "Have you ever met a Scientologist who displayed all the characteristics of the Clear, as described in the Dianetics book?"

    Another ESMB member had some success with the question: "What would the world be like if Scientology ran it? Would you really want to live in such a world?"
     
  14. existential_hobo_2

    existential_hobo_2 New Member

    Hello again. First off, I'm sorry I know it's against the rules to have two accounts registered to one person but I couldn't remember my password for the first a/c and I've tried resetting the password numerous times but have never received a reset email. And I cant find an Amin listed on the site to contact to send a reset manually to my proton email account. If someone knows who I contact to get this done please post who that is and I'll PM them, thanks.

    Anyway, I had a small question that I hope someone can help me with: I've found some great videos/articles on how to speak/try to help someone in Scientology such as Chris Shelton's 3 part youtube videos. But what I really need is advice in Spanish as their are friends and family who are concerned but not all speak English. While I realise Spanish transcripts would be too much to ask, but are there Spanish based message boards or websites that I can point family and friends to?

    Sorry for the 2nd a/c and I hope it doesn't get me booted off, and any help or advice is appreciated, thanks.
     
  15. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    You can always flag your own post by using the black little triangle down in the same line as THANK YOU, LIKE , ECT ..
    that will alert a mod. good luck
     
  16. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Firefox "Tools" drop down menu has a page translator. I just tried it on this thread from English to Spanish and it works fine.
     
  17. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    And it is a public message, it has been in use since Dianetics: the modern science of MENTAL HEALTH. Who wouldn't want improved mental health.... it is the Con Man Hubbard's "carnival bark" ' Look here, do you want to see this miracle device that can make your life so much better and easier' kind of way to attract attention.

    I suggest you read the 'Scientological Onion'... it will help you understand the whole shyster sales and activity pitch and it will also help you see where inside that onion your ex is. Here it is...http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105/


    That is very astute of you to see what I have underlined in your last sentence. I don't have the material at hand but to paraphrase hubbard wrote Out ethics is ' 1) COUNTER INTENTION and 2) OTHER INTENTION. '

    Keep that in mind..... because from a scientologist's view and your ex's now indoctrinated view....anything you suggest which is counter to scientology or intending to distract or extract your ex is OUT ETHICS..

    Of course this is though control educated into a scientologist through various methods.. PLEASE find and READ the indicators or characteristics of cults. Here is one, http://www.icsahome.com/articles/characteristics
    but I have seen one that I like much better but can't find it right now. it was I think 12 items and included THOUGHT CONTROL as an item
    Ahhh a little more searching and I found this to drop here for a few different lists.. well worth looking at

    http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/uploads/CultCharacteristics.htm



    I couldn't agree more.
     
  18. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    Dr. Robert Jay Lifton's 8 methods of Though Reform might be pertinent as well.
    __________________________________________​

    Robert Jay Lifton was one of the early psychologists to study brainwashing and mind control. He called the method used thought reform, and offered the following eight methods that are used to change people's minds.

    Milieu control

    All communication with outside world is limited, either being strictly filtered or completely cut off. Whether it is a monastery or a behind-closed-doors cult, isolation from the ideas, examples and distractions of the outside world turns the individuals attention to the only remaining form of stimulation, which is the ideology that is being inculcated in them.

    This even works at the intrapersonal level, and individuals are discouraged from thinking incorrect thoughts, which may be termed evil, selfish, immoral and so on.

    Mystical manipulation

    A part of the teaching is that the group has a higher purpose than others outside the group. This may be altruistic, such as saving the world or helping people in need. It may also be selfish, for example that group members will be saved when others outside the group will perish.

    All things are then attributed and linked to this higher purpose. Coincidences (which actually may be deliberately engineered) are portrayed as symbolic events. Attention is given to the problems of out-group people and attributed to their not being in the group. Revelations are attributed to spiritual causes.

    This association of events is used as evidence that the group truly is special and exclusive.

    Confession

    Individuals are encouraged to confess past 'sins' (as defined by the group). This creates a tension between the person's actions and their stated belief that the action is bad, particularly if the statement is made publicly. The consistency principle thus leads the person to fully adopt the belief that the sin is bad and to distance themselves from repeating it.

    Discussion of inner fears and anxieties, as well as confessing sins is exposing vulnerabilities and requires the person to place trust in the group and hence bond with them. When we bond with others, they become our friends, and we will tend to adopt their beliefs more easily.

    This effect may be exaggerated with intense sessions where deep thoughts and feelings are regularly surfaced. This also has the effect of exhausting people, making them more open to suggestion.

    Self-sanctification through purity

    Individuals are encouraged to constantly push towards an ultimate and unattainable perfection. This may be rewarded with promotion within the group to higher levels, for example by giving them a new status name (acolyte, traveller, master, etc.) or by giving them new authority within the group.

    The unattainability of the ultimate perfection is used to induce guilt and show the person to be sinful and hence sustain the requirement for confession and obedience to those higher than them in the groups order of perfection.

    Not being perfect may be seen as deserving of punishment, which may be meted out by the higher members of the group or even by the person themselves, who are taught that such atonement and self-flagellation is a valuable method of reaching higher levels of perfection.

    Aura of sacred science

    The beliefs and regulations of the group are framed as perfect, absolute and non-negotiable. The dogma of the group is presented as scientifically correct or otherwise unquestionable.

    Rules and processes are therefore to be followed without question, and any transgression is a sin and hence requires atonement or other forms of punishment, as does consideration of any alternative viewpoints.

    Loaded language

    New words and language are created to explain the new and profound meanings that have been discovered. Existing words are also hijacked and given new and different meaning.

    This is particularly effective due to the way we think a lot though language. The consequence of this is that the person who controls the meaning of words also controls how people think. In this way, black-and-white thinking is embedded in the language, such that wrong-doers are framed as terrible and evil, whilst those who do right (as defined by the group) are perfect and marvellous.

    The meaning of words are kept hidden both from the outside world, giving a sense of exclusivity. The meaning of special words may also be revealed in careful illuminatory rituals, where people who are being elevated within the order are given the power of understanding this new language.

    Doctrine over person

    The importance of the group is elevated over the importance of the individual in all ways. Along with this comes the importance of the the group's ideas and rules over personal beliefs and values.

    Past experiences, beliefs and values can all thus be cast as being invalid if they conflict with group rules. In fact this conflict can be used as a reason for confession of sins. Likewise, the beliefs, values and words of those outside the group are equally invalid.

    Dispensed existence

    There is a very sharp line between the group and the outside world. Insiders are to be saved and elevated, whilst outsiders are doomed to failure and loss (which may be eternal).

    Who is an outsider or insider is chosen by the group. Thus, any person within the group may be damned at any time. There are no rights of membership except, perhaps, for the leader.

    People who leave the group are singled out as particularly evil, weak, lost or otherwise to be despised or pitied. Rather than being ignored or hidden, they are used as examples of how anyone who leaves will be looked down upon and publicly denigrated.

    People thus have a constant fear of being cast out, and consequently work hard to be accepted and not be ejected from the group. Outsiders who try to persuade the person to leave are doubly feared.

    Dispensation also goes into all aspects of living within the group. Any and all aspects of existence within the group is subject to scrutiny and control. There is no privacy and, ultimately, no free will.
     
  19. existential_hobo_2

    existential_hobo_2 New Member

    Done. Thank you, that was a great idea. Hopefully i'll hear back soon.
     
  20. existential_hobo_2

    existential_hobo_2 New Member

    My firefox doesn't have a "tools" option in the menu, it has developer / options / etc. but no "translate". You might have an extension/addon installed to do that. Besides i can't assume they have a level of technical knowledge (especially if they are anything like my family & friends :p ). Nothing beats communicating in your own language. But as a fallbacks go its a good one, so thank you.