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Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Whattodo, Mar 29, 2017.

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  1. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron with Honors

    New here, from the the UK. I have people I know in scientology and looking to find ways of to subtly get them to start doubting what they are involved in. However its a massive up hill struggle as I need to stay under the radar and don't want to be classed sp or pts and be disconnected from them.

    Any tips, help or advice would be appreciated.
  2. Out/Int

    Out/Int Patron with Honors


    Use Margaret Singer's you tube videos.

    Ask them to just sit through this video with you ...the entire video to see if there is anything in it they would need to know.

    Don't say anything else - just ask them to watch it to the end.

    If they still think Scientology is good - you have to wait until they want to leave because it is not working or they see too many "outpoints" / CRIMES.

    It is not an easy thing to do but don't say much - let Margaret do the talking.
  3. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron with Honors

    They aren't going to watch it though are they and then what will their viewpoint be of me? Sp?
  4. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus Cleared Tomato

    Welcome. I am still a newbe here too, even though I lurked for some years before I posted.

    I know what you are going through, sort of. Because I did not have a goal to pull my friends out of the cult. I flew under the radar for a while. In fact, I've never "officially" been declared that I know of. If I was, they would have declared me PTS first. And I still talk to a couple of Scientologists and now they know where I stand (for the most part). That's all about to change within the year.

    If I were you, I would not try to pull them away. I have been able to pull, or maybe I helped to "seal the deal" on a couple people in leaving, but I acted so casual about it, it sure didn't feel like I was doing anything. I am armed with a lot of information. I've read every book under the sun moon and stars about cults and I already know both sides of the fence. I can't fathom getting them out by "trying," especially if their whole family is in. I started by breaking it to them gently that I wasn't into doing services anymore. I never really told anyone my full on views until they started telling me their doubts. I just lead from example from there. I'd just keep it cool for now. How long have you been out?
  5. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Great advice.
  6. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    The best you can do is to prepare yourself to effectively communicate with them, if and when, they, some day, have a falling out (upset, disillusionment, etc.) with the Scientology organization.

    At that time - unless they've completely abandoned Scientology - say something like, "I've been reading the Internet and there are highly trained auditors who work independently of the of the organization." (Have names and phones numbers ready.)

    If they're interested, speaking on the phone with an "Independent auditor," and having a positive experience with that Independent Auditor, may be the needed breakthrough for the person.

    Then, at least, he'll be out of the organization, and see the oppressive folly of its "SP Declares,"etc.

    Along with this step is suggesting that ("I've read that," etc.) "Tech is out in Orgs," and "management is violating LRH Admin tech," etc. A web site such as this might be handy at this stage:

    Anything to drive a wedge between the person and the organization.

    The main objective, at this stage, is to extricate the person from the organization and its control mechanisms (such as "SP Declares).

    Once he's out, and his freedom to LOOK is restored, you'll find that things have a way of sorting out themselves.

    But you need to be prepared for when the person is experiencing a crisis about Scientology organization. Be able to assist him at that time.

    The information on this thread, and other places, may help.

    The usual gradient is: "Ron and the tech are great, but the organization is messed up, but don't worry, there are other highly trained auditors who can provide the entire Bridge."

    Then, take it from there.

    Usually, once out, the person will cease being any kind of Scientologist within a few months or years. Be patient.


    The Scientological Onion and links:


    Incredible String band, Ex Scientologists
  7. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    My personal record for getting someone out is one hour. The best I can suggest is to listen to them, and talk to them. Knowing a lot about the cult is your most valuable strength, and although I did not know the person I got out that quickly, knowing them works greatly in your favor. You can do it!

    I strongly suggest that you do not offer up scientology options in any form. That would be like getting a heroin addict to switch to opiate pills.

    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  8. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    " I never really told anyone my full on views until they started telling me their doubts. I just lead from example from there. I'd just keep it cool for now. "

    THEIR doubts...... this is in my opinion the door that is showing that THEIR innate personality is recognizing that scn is not what they were/are hoping it is or would be from their before scientology frame of mind. Let that before...innate personality and views grow back up through that crack in everything towards the sunlight where it can become strong and independent of the overlay of scientology mind and EMOTION control. A little fertilizer of your own observations of "outpoints" or 'doubts about' can be helpful but careful not do give the fertilizer too early or too much of it as seedlings are easily overwhelmed by too much as they struggle with pushing away the soil (pressures of all kinds) which is blocking their growth towards the sunlight.

    Great pinpointing EZ Linus
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  9. GAJ420

    GAJ420 New Member

    Following, as I'm interested in the same information.
  10. Goodbye

    Goodbye Patron with Honors

    Good advice!
  11. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron with Honors

    This is the advice I was looking for, maybe I should be a little clearer on my circumstances so I can get the best advice. I would say I never became a scientologist, I did a purif a few years back but never took up any other courses, learning and studying through books was never a strong point so I was never going to be a good candidate. However I am encouraged to read books or take courses still.
    So when I mentioned being under the radar I meant in the sense that they don't discover my intentions and that the church don't become suspicious and declare me a pts or even sp.
    They went through a quiet spell but in the last 18 months as their free money increased they have ramped up the number of courses they are doing and their tone and language has changed.
    I have questioned recently why they have had to do their purify again and certain of courses as they had been muddled with or new information/tech has come to light. They said if that happened again they may become suspicious but they are truly buying into everything currently. Said they like the tech and not interested in the belief side so I'm guessing they still have a way to go up the bridge.

    So I need drips of information to sow seeds of doubt without being too anti scientology. I show interest as a bluff
  12. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    In my experience most people leave when they've just had enough of the demands for money or the abuse of seniors or whatever. I don't think many people leave because a non-scientologist has told them something about it.

    Scientologists are conditioned to believe that everything their organization says is true and anyone who says different is lying. So if you point them to something on the internet or a TV channel or a book that is critical they will just ignore it.

    If I knew someone who was still in I think I would just stay calm and not say anything unless they mentioned it. If they said something negative about scientology then I would reinforce that with information I had but if they said something positive about scientology I would make sure I told them that they're being deceived. If they don't accept that then at least it should stop them from talking to me about that subject again.
  13. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron with Honors

    What if I said at some point I had said I had spoken to another scientologist (independant) and said that told me to ask "have they ever been asked to buy replacement books" or have they been asked to redo courses etc etc and have they have questioned that? Do you think a few things along those lines would create doubt? What else might create doubt which they will have experienced?
  14. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron with Honors

    Just to note I have to also work with a scientologist and I was asked to make sure the office is kept clear, clean, declutt red otherwise I won't function properly. Harmless advice and I see the point but the point is tech is being imposed and pushed. Stats have started to be mentioned alot too or of being introduced! I was also given a book to read but won't divulge too much.

    So turning a blind eye or ignoring this problem isn't really an option.

    To be honest they are extremely good at their job, well organised, very normal in most ways and talk alot of sense when handling issues. However never wrong, never forget (they do), stubborn and not flexible. You do feel like your inferior as I haven't got the tech! I've been told I'm not skilled or trained to do my job which knocks your confidence. To be fair I've had to learn hands on and haven't done specialist business courses and neither had the time. So I've learnt from trial and error and this is over 10 years down the line now, so hearing those comments is a smack in the face.
  15. WildKat

    WildKat Gold Meritorious Patron

    Some people may need the "half-way house" of Indie Scn and some may not. And it might have something to do with how long they were in. Don't be too quick to dismiss it as an option for some cases. Everyone is different.
  16. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron with Honors

    I am thinking this might be the better option as anything else would be straight out dismissed
  17. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    You also said " I am encouraged to read books or take courses still."

    Is this scientologist your boss or co-worker?

    Which courses are you being encouraged to take?

    Have you asked where and how and when you would take the courses?

    Edited To Add: Whattodo, you also mentioned " Said they like the tech and not interested in the belief side so I'm guessing they still have a way to go up the bridge."

    Well, assuming this person is being honest with you....then you might drop a question like......if they like the tech "why are they not interested in the ''belief side" . or what are their personal beliefs that make them not interested in the scientology belief system? What is the difference between your cohort's beliefs and the scientology beliefs? I would just leave them with those questions and let them respond on their own without any might take them a while to sort out the answer for him/herself and get back to you.... but it will get them to look at both their doubts and their innate beliefs....of which I think the latter is far more important and will give them strength to discard scientology, if they want to, or to at the very least address their thinking from a position of strength rather than a position of an imposed ideology.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  18. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron with Honors

    I think things have been mentioned in the pass, I asked what body thetans were and they said there was no such thing. I also think they have been questioned about xenu the intergalactic war lord! Bonkers as you write it!
  19. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    If you EVER mention that you are in contact with independent ( = heretic ) Scientologists, your friends will be forced to disconnect from you. Likewise if you ever mention that you've been reading Scientology critics on the Internet. Scientology management has become increasingly militant about this, and keeping Scientologists in a cocoon.

    Since you did the Purif, you are considered a Scientologist. Your best bet is to stay under the radar, and be somebody safe whom they can talk to about any doubts which come up. You will not be able to initiate their getting out. The waking up has to come from within.
  20. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    If you work for a Scientologist, then your job would be at risk if they ever suspected you were in contact with independents, critics, or people who have been Declared (and all three categories are here)