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Hitchens, Farrakahn and the nasty midget

Discussion in 'Nation of Islam and Related Groups' started by johnAnchovie, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. johnAnchovie

    johnAnchovie Still raging

    I would like to be so bold as to ask for your brief attention to the video link I have added here.

    This video contains a quote, made with his inimitable style and characteristicly understated wit, from Christopher Hitchens.

    I feel that sheds an interesting light on the incestuous coupling of Scientology and that most rank of fanatical putrescence: The Nation of Islam.

    What we are witnessing here is the mutation of two hate groups into one single species that is of the measure of the worst possible form of viral disease. Those infected face destructive consequences of unimaginable horror to their mental and (if you accept the duelist concept) spiritual, wellbeing.

    I encourage the broad dissemination of this video and that of that neo fascist Farrakahn’s and NOI’s links to that other destructive hate group: Scientology.
  2. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    In animal breeding, if you cross the worst with the worst, the crazy/ sick/ genetically inferior offspring doesn't last long. In this case, hopefully the offspring will devour itself before it has any opportunity to procreate. Maybe that offspring will be something akin to a mule: noisy, stubborn, mean, can perform some useful work during it's short life, but can't reproduce.
  3. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster

    Thanks for that. I listened to it.

    Yes, he scores some easy points because he's poking fun at those who are more than easy to poke fun at. In ways that are guaranteed to get laughs.

    As you can tell, I'm not a big Hitchens fan -- NOT because I'm religious (I'm definitely not) -- but because I think he doesn't advance the debate of God vs. No God very much or argue against any but the most stupid arguments put forth by the other side. He mostly (whether in print or on screen) goes for the cheap shots, for the easy laugh, like a comedian who relies on profanity for his/her success.

    Having said that, Hitchens certainly has (had) his fans. And he was by most standards a great success on his chosen topic - atheism vs. religiosity.

    I'm very sorry he died so young. It would have been interesting to see how he developed and advanced his arguments further in later years. Now, that could have been worthwhile to read / watch.


    P.S. And, yes, Farrakhan + the Church of Scientology is indeed a train wreck, destined to rain havoc on many lives.
  4. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    The CoS and the NOI. Truly a match made in hell.

    Miscavige probably thinks he has done a very clever thing by sucking in Farrakhan and his crew, but he won’t look so clever when it all turns nasty. As it surely will.

  5. Kutta

    Kutta Silver Meritorious Patron

    Christopher Hitchens was a very clever debater. Taking his quote of the leader of the NOI in isolation could make it seem to be NOI's defining anti-semitic belief — and perhaps it is. However, I quote here from Wiki:

    "Jude Wanniski, late associate editor of the Wall Street Journal, wrote, "I've met dozens of men and women who belong to the Nation of Islam, attended many of their conferences, and prayed with them in their Chicago mosque to the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammed. I've concluded beyond any reasonable doubt that there is not an ounce of anti-Semitism or bigotry in Farrakhan."[28]
    Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich defended Minister Louis Farrakhan in 2004. “I’m honored to join this distinguished leader who gives hope and understanding to people all over the world, of every color, of every religion, and of every political belief,” Conyers said of Farrakhan during the 2004 “Saviours Day” celebration. [29]
    Rabbi David Weiss of the Neturei Karta Orthodox Jewish community defended Minister Farrakhan, stating "The media widely reported that the Minister had referred to Judaism as a ‘gutter religion.’ This error (or distortion) was deeply troubling to the Nation of Islam."

    I am at loss to understand the attraction of scientology to the NOI.

    I think they are wacky, particularly their belief in the founder being the Mahdi, but I don't see hatred as a core plank of their belief system. Actually, I can't see it there at all, at least in what they profess to hold to.

    I've recently read Hitchen's autobiography. I'm gonna write what I thought of it on the 'Good Books' thread, sometime soon.
  6. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    COI/COS. Partners in crime.

    Much like the "truces" made between warring street gangs or mafia families that is "good for business", the grinning cynical & sociopathic leaders of those criminal enterprises thinks nothing of selling out their own cult members to line their own pockets.

    Another point worth mentioning when speaking about the loyal parishioners of cults, street gangs, biker gangs, mafia families and radical Muslim sects--they all end up in jail, betrayed or dead eventually. But that doesn't stop zealous members from believing that their leaders love them dearly and only have their best interests in mind.

    Lambs with VGI's and F/N's being lead to slaughter.
  7. Durandal

    Durandal Patron

    Ultra-greedy, power-hungry madmen conspiring together, eh? I shudder to think what horrors they might wreak on an unsuspecting population.
  8. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    It's not just the NOI and Scientology. There has been a pronounced rise in hate crimes in Europe over the last few years. By 'Hate Crimes' I mean racially motivated, religiously motivated, gender motivated, and anti-homosexuality motivated. As a Jew, I keep one eye open for these things... These crimes have been rising dramatically every year for about the last 7 years.

    If you're black, asian, jewish, muslim, gay or female, this world can be pretty scary. That's why I've got a nice shotgun in the house, and know how to use it.

    Sadly, hate sells. That's what these leaders sell - hate. People want it and buy it. It has a 'buzz' to it, that is addictive. Scientology has been in the hate business from the start - so has NOI.

    All I can see as an antidote is education.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  9. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Unfortunately Smilla, education is not sufficient. It is important as a tool, but it is not enough. The roots of the hatred lie in human irrationality and emotional reactivity. The factors of mind & spirit must be addressed in order to eliminate this threat fully.

    Buddhist philosophy is based on this understanding. Oddly, or from my perspective not so oddly, so was the original formulation of dianetics. That was a principle factor in attracting my interest to the subject. The potential for using the tech of dianetic auditing to eliminate the non-aware basis for irrational behavior in the personality which was not otherwise responsive to education alone.

    I don't say any of this to annoy or upset you. know you really don't like anything about dianetics & scientology. BUT, when auditing does work well the result is precisely to identify and reduce the irrational & emotionally reactive aspects of human behavior. Given the actual roots & practices of scientology tech, this isn't even really a controversial conclusion. There is a reason that similar techniques are used & embodied in other practices. Many of the techniques used in dianetics & scientology are actually workable when not used in an exploitive fashion.

    Yes, the history of the church is one of intentionally supplanting some aspects of reactivity with others. Unquestionably that reflects the malicious intent of the leadership of that institution, both past as well as present. But those are features of what was an intentionally created to be an abusive & reckless personality cult. It is not a necessary feature or result of auditing.

    That the church misuses auditing to the detriment of its pcs and its membership is certain. That hubbard encouraged & directed the church in that process is also certain. It is also evident that auditing, unsullied by attempts to exploit a pc, is very effective in assisting the individual in reducing the unwanted destructive influences of their own thoughts so as to reduce the prospects of reactive irrational behavior.

    Education is important. So is the concept of clearing technology. That is so, however it may be described, and despite hubbard's attempts to profit from it personally through his own deliberate misrepresentations of the subject.

    Mark A. Baker
  10. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

  11. johnAnchovie

    johnAnchovie Still raging

    I am not sure you are right on any level. You might be and yet the statement you made is self-cancelling.

    I have never seen it work to promote any kind peace, any kind positive, that of course is anecdote. But the fact the very people you claim perverted the tech in fact extensively used the tech for huge chunks of their lives reaching OT levels and yet perverted it for selfish and internecine purposes. This alone seems to prove your thesis incorrect.

    Buddhist concepts, yes, absolutely, these are progenitors of peace ideologies and act to remove avaricious behaviors. That is why Jung took up these concepts. These aspects never actually existed in any part of Scientology or Dianetcs except in that of a bogus effect, that being that of the thinnest of veneers in order to give the subject some 1950s and '60s equivalent of ‘street cred’.

    Mark, I learned more about peace, humanity and love from my first year psychology lectures than I could have hoped to have gleaned from 22 years engaged in the subject of Dianetics and Scientology. We have a board here replete with the human wreckage and fallout of that tech that you seem so insistent on supporting. I do not get it.

    A few days ago a person I was assisting described a recent conversation among OT scientologists about anyone that promotes my book ‘The Complex’, which is after all nothing more than an account of what I witnessed and contains no conjecture. These people said that promoters of my book should be burned alive.

    Peace and love man.

    Farrakahn promotes hate, Hubbard and his movement promotes hate. These are now engaged in an ever deepening relationship. What I am saying is that this must be watched very carefully. All hate movements had inauspicious beginnings. This development is alarming and people who have been hurt by either of them should take note.

    Please cease to promote your Hubbardian convictions around my threads. I am sure you have the best of intentions, but your blinkered view allows you to pour salt into gaping wounds. You are hurting people, you have just hurt me rather profoundly with your promotion of this tech. I do wish you would develop sufficient humanity to see that.
  12. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    This man is an example of why real education is needed and not just certificate chasing.

    He is so right, I would have watched it before but mistook his name for Christopher Biggins, pantomime dame.

    Education gives you the tools to think with. That's why Hubbard liked kids working and not going to school.
  13. Demented LRH

    Demented LRH Patron Meritorious

    Farrakhan says that Dianetics can bring the
    White Man" to a higher state of being, that is why he is trying to blend Scientology with Islam. CoS need more suckers to bilk them. This is a marriage of convenience.
  14. Demented LRH

    Demented LRH Patron Meritorious

    You might think that Dianetics helps, but this is a delusional thinking. But do not take my word for it -- scientists at NYU have conducted a direct experiment prooving once and for all that the engrams do not exist. Unfortunately, not everyone is able to understand the meaning of this experiment. Some people are so poorly educated that science is completely beyond their mental grasp.
  15. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    :lol: Thank God we have you here to set us all straight, then! :lol:
  16. Boomima

    Boomima Patron with Honors

    I fear for HH. I believe that Panda Termint might be taking over his role as CO-Humour division.