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How Dangerous is New OTVII (Solo NOTs)

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by mate, Jan 27, 2010.

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  1. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Re: How Dangerous is New OTVII (Solo NOTs)


    It'll either bankrupt yah if you are a working stiff,

    only to find out you don't know and can begin again. :laugh:

    Or, if yah got bucks, you'll be donating to the IAS. :thumbsup:

    only to find out you don't know and can begin again,


    because all others below you as OT8 need to go up the bridge so you OT8 can experience OT9. :laugh:
  2. Idle Morgue

    Idle Morgue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Part 5 . . . The Danger of OT3-S/NOTs

    Be nice - it is a BT that one of the Oat Tea's got to leave his body and that BT ain't buying Scientology - so he landed here on EXSMB!!:wink2: He felt it was the safest place to BE if you are a "freed BT"!
  3. Idle Morgue

    Idle Morgue Gold Meritorious Patron

    What is the cost per BT release?

    What is the cost per cluster release?

    Is it more economical to release clusters rather than individual BT's?

    If you like some of your BT's - is it okay if they stay?

    Please, can someone do the average cost analysis?

    I would also like to know what is the # of average BT's one may have?

    I can't help it - I am a analyzer! I have an accounting background!:coolwink:

    If David Miscavige was smarter - he would advertise the benefits of Scientology by announcing the savings because "YOU ASK THEM TO LEAVE" - you know, sort of a Cost per BT release verses other exorcisms done by other religions!
  4. Idle Morgue

    Idle Morgue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Reply re: NOTs

    Thetagal - thanks for this information. What were some of your wins on this level? What was promised and what did you experience from doing this for 14 years?

  5. Spirit

    Spirit just another son of God

    Re: Part 5 . . . The Danger of OT3-S/NOTs

    So what do we do with this guy? [​IMG]
  6. Idle Morgue

    Idle Morgue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Part 5 . . . The Danger of OT3-S/NOTs

    I say leave him BE! :thumbsup:
  7. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    "Astral projection may not be real, and a lot of the spiritual psychics may be wrong about what it is they are "hearing", or "seeing", but I don't think it's fair to say they are insane. I think a lot of us have voices in our heads, and sometimes we mumble to ourselves giving voice to them. Sometimes we aren't aware of these voices, consciously. What these mystics are perceiving is these voices, IMO, which are better understood as fragments of themselves in a loop, or as projections, rather than entities with independent existence. While such entities MIGHT exist, I've never seen any evidence of them as real, independently existing entities with valid information about the intersubjective world we are all apparently living in. This sort of intrapsychic noise is the target of some valid clearing practices, IMO. However, those who push the idea that these voices, or entities should be considered "real", rather than simply discharged, are in very dangerous water, pretty much training themselves to become paranoid schizophrenics. Recognizing a voice in your head is a GOOD thing. Validating it as an independently existing entity is NOT a good thing. Instead, one should discover the origin of this voice, when it started "talking", and how it divided from the self. People who are battered severely can develop disassociative identity disorder (what used to be called multiple personality disorder). I think this is just an extreme form, which serves as an obvious example of the problem. I think many people have a much lower intensity of this problem, and that many people have it in such a low intensity that it doesn't bother them except for stray thoughts or random impulses that seem to come from someone else.

    Many new-agers and scientologists/FZ scientologists have accepted these entities as having independent existence and are in a grey area, as far as sanity is concerned, to me. Where they engage in activities to fight such entities as if they existed in intersubjective space, I think they've crossed over the line into insanity. Where they audit them, and simply don't accept them as their genuine self, I think they're generally okay, but in danger.

    Hubbard talked about Clears being in danger after going clear, until they went through OT III. I think it's very true that a person who has quieted their mind through meditation or other practices (such as auditing) could become aware of these fragments/voices, etc. If they were trained to believe that they had independent existence, then I think they ARE in danger, just as Ron said, because god knows what these little fragments are the result of (probably severe trauma causing disassociation, but possibly just a desired reality that speaks to the person), and what they could cause the person who takes them in this way seriously to do. However, a person who recognizes them as projections or divisions within himself stands no real danger, I don't think, except the danger of becoming a bit introverted trying to analyze their origins, and either dismiss them, or reincorporate them into themself in a healthy way. Clearing practices CAN help with this, but not when they are inverted, such as the implant platens of CC-OTII, which only reinforce the person's belief in their independent existence while hypnotically inducing a strange belief-set in science-fiction "implants" and paranoia.

    There: now I've pissed of the independent field, or at least those who are invested in continuing to justify their beliefs in phenomena which are not demonstrably true, which give them special status as psychic or "sensitives", or "OTs" for that matter."
  8. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    I'm not going to try to match you comment or statement for statement. BUT IMO your description of what some or all are auditing on OT7 is causing a spiritual holocaust and is destroying spiritual space. IMO moving into " God Space " is in actuality moving into another being space. A really smart big being, perhaps he was Yawha or Jesus or both, and has been working to build up earth societies and cultures for thousands of years. In moving into this space, which belongs to another being, OT7s are really sorta making themselves into big BTs. In addition, moving in, pushing in a straight line into this space, kinda seats them "inside" god. So they are in effect trying to kill god space from the inside out, as they claim false ownership of that space. They think they've won but in reality, they have lost.

    All OT7s are trying to sit inside the same space, instead of creating their own space.
    And the space they have confused as being "open" really belongs to one spiritual being that is alive and walking around with a body on earth. This is another reason c of s is failing....
  9. TheSpectator

    TheSpectator Patron with Honors

    Having audited on OT III - VII (including GAT VII) my opinion is that Hubbard's ideas about body thetans (BTs) are false and stupid; there are no such entities as body thetans.

    1) Hubbard mentioned cellular memory in Dianetics. Later on he seemed to come to a similar conclusion as yours and that the body is composed of body thetans. Hubbard had other speculations too, like the dwindling spiral, that were all caused by body thetans.

    2) No. Hubbard's idea was that BTs had only a negative effects on a person and his body. Blowing BTs on OT VII would have only a positive effect on the body.

    3) No. Your hypothesis in #2 is wrong. Here's a good explanation of cancer cells.

    4) Eating protein and vegetables has always been good advice but alkaline levels aren't affected by what you eat: "Your body's acidity is not, in any way, affected by the pH of what you eat or drink. Eating alkaline food stimulates production of acidic digestive enzymes, and eating acidic foods causes the stomach to produce fewer acids. Your body's primary mechanism for the control of pH is the exhalation of carbon dioxide, which governs the amount of carbonic acid in the blood. Nor has there ever been any plausible research that shows any connection between these diseases and body acidity, this also appears to be completely made up."

    5) Most Scientologists are taught to avoid medical doctors so they don't take advantage of simple routines (like an annual physical, colonoscopy, monitoring blood pressure, etc.) that are beneficial to a healthy life. Usually Scientologists ignore their symptoms or try to handle their illness with some quack solution. So when they discover they have cancer it's usually in the later stages with no effective treatment.

    All the BT handling in Scientology is dangerous but not for the reasons you mention. The irony is Hubbard was ultimately the victim of his own creation. He died in seclusion afraid of people as a pathetic, decrepit man.