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Hubbard and the Lie Factory

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by JustSheila, Dec 15, 2018.

  1. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    After I left Scientology, I ran into a few people besides Hubbard who consistently told fake stories and lies. It seems to me this sort of personality is becoming more and more common.

    I’ve just left a carer job from a houseful of people with various physical and mental illnesses. My job was to care for an 86 year old grandmother, and the rest of the house was pure chaos. One woman there spent weeks talking about preparing for a trip to Alaska with a church group that was flying on a charter plane to help the people there prepare for the darkness, then told us the trip was cancelled and the next tall tale was about how she has a battery in her back and over 30 surgeries and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of high-tech medical gear to keep her moving. The battery in her back, she told me, has to be recharged every ten years.

    “Wow!” I said, “That’s just awesome! Most people’s bodies are only worth about $30 when they’re dead, but the equipment they salvage from yours when you die would be worth a mint!” She didn’t much like the idea of being so valuable dead, so I didn’t hear anything more about the battery in her back.

    The other day she had a sudden call for an appointment to the doctor’s office to remove a tumor in her foot and she suddenly had to leave for the surgery. The doctor, she said, was going to take it out with a knife himself in his office, no anesthetic. When she came back, her foot wasn’t even wrapped. The stories just go on and on and on and on endlessly and she’s just walking around among us, unmedicated, like so many thousands of others like her. Thank goodness that job ended. What a nut house!

    That woman was a lot like Hubbard. Both would let their imaginations go and tell whatever lie or story seemed convenient and came to their heads at the spur of the moment. They’d say anything for an audience or for a reaction of sympathy or admiration, and neither thought twice about honesty. The battery-in-her-back woman wasn’t a nice woman, either. She’d turn vicious and occasionally nearly violent at the spur of the moment, badgering and insulting others, bossing them around and generally abusing them and she seemed to enjoy it. With a bit more power, she would have enjoyed completely unleashing her cruelty. Between her tall tales and abuse, she would act like she was some sort of sweet old lady who actually baked cookies for grandchildren (but never delivered the cookies, either). Passive-aggressive with a fully operational lie factory, just like Hubbard.

    Unfortunately, I’m running into more and more people like this. They show up as trolls on the Internet, or they write blogs claiming all sorts of amazing powers and credentials. I’ve studied Psychology, but I’m not sure there’s a term that fits this person.

    Has anyone else here run into others that were like Hubbard this way? What do you think?
  2. Tanchi

    Tanchi Patron with Honors

    I have. A few in my family. More recently, a DIL. I've struggled to understand. BPD fits most of my family, but so does Histrionic Personality. I've never been able to pigeonhole any of them, but underneath all of them, lies a smoldering rage, imo. If they feel slighted in the least, it will simmer to slow boil. I never know when or how they will strike back. It varies from a disparaging look or comment on my appearance, home, gossiping about me to anyone that will listen, to "accidental" physical violence. They're sneaky. And lie? Yes!! They will lie like a rug.
  3. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Well, I hope you have a nice christmas. :biggrin:
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
  4. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Thanks. Boy, that stinks.

    Yup, there's that smoldering rage, I agree. This family was so dysfunctional, they spent all their time glued together as family and going on and on to outsiders about how concerned they were for each other while putting each other down as soon as one or the other turned around. The only person exempt from the gossip and abuse was the one person that had worked and paid the deposit and actually owned the house that they were living at, rent-free. Funny how that works, right? Too insane to carry on a conversation beyond complaining and talking about how they are dying from some new disease, medical appts, how the other person is so awful, etc., but never, ever making a single social error to offend the person financially supporting them. It's all about what someone else did to them, someone else's fault. Just like Hubbard. But oh, Hubbard could praise his benefactors, though. Just like Scientology. As long as you're giving the money, you're aces.

    So don't think you're the only one getting that treatment. They all secretly hated each other except the one financially supporting them. They take from each other, lie to each other, verbally abuse each other and anyone else who is misfortunate enough to be around them. It's not just you, believe me... I've heard them all bashing each other and seen them sneaking around with each other's things, too and then lying about it. But they have the time, money and energy to go out to eat and shopping nearly every day, just can't be bothered doing any real work. Except baking. OMG, they baked for 40 like they were having a huge party and then dumped the stuff. As if the bedridden 86 year old made the mess. I don't think so! :eyeroll:

    The 86 year old grandmother with mild dementia was the most pleasant of all of them.
  5. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    It's been my experience that these types were spoiled rotten. Their tantrums and demands were given in to and they never had to work. Discipline was often threatened without being administered. Often they were raised under a dynamic of friends instead of parent/child. Finally, when I've been able to observe it, their parents were adult children, themselves, where truth wasn't a priority and were selfish, themselves. I've noticed that they have body problems, too. Aches, pains, allergies, conditions...and mood swings galore.

    They are completely without trust.

    I bet this is Hubbard's background as an only child. I read once that he was an only baby in a big, doting family of aunts, uncles and grandparents.

    He fits this MO.
  6. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Yes, I have come across people like this. In each case, the first time I met them, I knew they were bad news. And I was proven right in each case. There was one guy who used to talk super-fast, and I quickly realised that he was effectively trying to hypnotise the people around him. Whenever I had a conversation with him, he would talk fast, and flit around from subject to subject. I could see that what he was doing was trying to misdirect my attention back and forth mentally, a bit like a stage magician would, except he was doing it verbally by trying to conjure up mental images. I'm not even sure he realised he was doing it, it just seemed to be a kind of automatic MO of his. But point out to these people what they are doing, and boy do they take a dislike to you. Very vindictive.

    When I realise that somebody is playing me in some way, I often simply point out to the person that I can see what they are doing. They HATE that. But I enjoy it.

    The person I mentioned above came across as a smart, go-getter type guy. Until one day he was made wrong by someone. Then I saw him turn into a babbling loony. It startled me, but at the same time I knew the guy was nuts, so it only served to confirm for me that I was right about him.

    The next guy that I knew who was like that was an absolute dopple-ganger for the first guy. To the extent that I almost felt I was being followed around by a single loony, who was skipping from body to body to follow me. When I first met the second guy, I warned everyone around me that that guy was going to be bad news. But they were all telling me "oh no, this guy is fantastic, man. Full of energy, a real go-getter. Within a year I had people coming to me and saying "yeah, you really had this guy nailed, and we ignored you". What a fruit-loop. I nicknamed him Walter, after Walter Mittie.

    The first Walter-Mittie that I recall noticing clearly was an American guy who had come to live in the UK. He used to come and talk to me for an hour at a time. He claimed to be an author who was in the UK writing a book, and he used to tell me all kinds of tall tales about his life. Exact same phenomena as Sheila mentioned. I couldn't help but think of Hubbard as he told me his tall tales. At the time, I just assumed that this must be an American personality trait (I still think it's more common amongst Americans - I think there must be something about the American culture that, when applied to a Walter Mittie, really brings out those characteristics). The dopple-ganger I mentioned above was also American. But the 'author' guy used to just bare-faced lie, and then look me in the eye to see what my reaction was. I just pretended to believe his stories.
  7. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Another thing that I have noticed about that type of person is that they get promoted quickly. It has sometimes felt like I am the only sane person in the room. Everybody else is fawning over this narcissistic loony, and saying how wonderful they are. People buy their bullshit, and they seem to get taken very seriously by people (until and unless the cracks appear, and people realise that, beneath the surface, they are babbling loonies). I've seen this same pattern play out several times. They work their way up rapidly into a position of power, and then eventually everyone realises that they are nuts, but by then they are calling the shots.

    Presumably that's what happened with Miscavige. It never ceases to amaze me how such people can seem to hypnotise the people around them. I have had one or two surreal situations where I have almost had to pinch myself. Everyone fawning around a loony, while I am thinking to myself "how is it possible that I am the only person who can see through this guy?".

    ETA: I once got a job by mimicking the behaviour of these guys. I went to a job interview and thought "just for an experiment, I'm going to approach this interview like I am the king of the universe. I bragged about how great I was, talked about this achievement and that achievement (which wouldn't be my normal style), and was just generally over the top. There came a point in the interview where I realised I had pulled it off, and I knew I would be offered the job. Hahaha. I suspect that the emphasis in our culture on salesmanship and surface appearance has made the majority of the population unable to perceive beneath the surface of a person's personality.
  8. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    There's umpteen articles that talk about these types and government positions.

    I think it's also predominant in the diva and pop cultures where talent is manufactured.
    Wilbur, JustSheila and strativarius like this.
  9. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    You remind me of a guy in the Sea Org. He was tall, good looking but in the vernacular at the time I would characterize him as "too much there" and "know besty" and he talked bright ideas ratta tat tat like Ben Shapiro. His advancement was meteoric...then, POOF, he was gone with nothing but knowing glances amongst the rest of us.

    Undoubtedly he ran into somebody higher up who still had a relatively intact bullshit detector or had a bad experience with people who placed their own creativity over KSW.
    Wilbur and JustSheila like this.
  10. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Yes, I think you're absolutely right there. For one reason or another I've met plenty of 'stars' and 'celebrities' in my life. For example, as a blackjack dealer in the late 70's I relieved the painter Francis Bacon of a considerable amount of money in the casino he visited often. That's just one example.

    These people all seemed to have something 'odd' about them, some intangible personality trait that set them apart from 'normal' people and was probably behind their quest for recognition and fame. One interesting detail is that many of them seemed to be of small physical stature. Look at Miscavige for a start.

    For some reason I'd always imagined Grace Jones to be some Amazon type of female until I met her. She is quite diminutive too. I also imagined her to be aggressive and butch whereas in actual fact she was as sweet and kind as could be, but there was still that certain something about her character that seemed to be 'different'.

    I don't want to go on a name-dropping binge, but most of the famous people I've met didn't seem to be able to relax and just 'be themselves'. It's like they had to maintain this facade at all times. They were always 'on'.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
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  11. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

    You know that one of LRH's basic ideas was that everything in creation persists because it contains a lie.

    You remove the lie and poof! It's gone.

    Thanks Ron for lying or we wouldn't be here. :D
  12. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Yeah, it's funny. When I first saw LRH in that interview on the ship he did, I knew he was a conman. And yet, it didn't seem to make much difference to my belief in the tech.

    It must be the same phenomenon that's at play when a cult issues a date for the end of the world (like the Jehovah's Witnesses did several times). The date comes and goes, and the members are still there, despite the fact that the cult's powers of prophesy have failed. I wonder whether Miscavige & Hubbard have studied these cults, to find out what they can get away with. The never-ending Super Power Building fundraising project, and the promises that were made about that, spring to mind.

    I remember we were told that once the Key to Life, Life Orientation Course and Super Power were released, Scientology would be unstoppable. The mantra was something like "Get the staff through it, then get the politicians through it, then we will be able to clear the planet easily". I wonder whether anyone left in the orgs is keeping mental track of these promises. Are they getting the staff through Super Power, as promised? I doubt it.

    I reckon we must be due another version of the KTL-LOC-Super Power evolution. A sheaf of bulletins will be found in a drawer somewhere that contains yet another super-duper rundown. The rundown will, of course, require a new building (perhaps a ship?), and will be the 'final piece in the jigsaw puzzle of planetary clearing'. Milk that for 25 years, giving Miscagive time to prepare his retirement in Bulgravia. If they're clever, they'll find a way of linking the new product to compulsory IAS donations (to make a safe space for the new rundown). The end phenomena of each of steps I to IV of the rundown will include the cognition that I need to 'up my status' in the IAS.
    Leland, ThetanExterior and F.Bullbait like this.
  13. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    That's right!! Super Power was so powerful it was found that people couldn't duplicate the commands so KTL and LOC had to be developed just to deliver Super Power and were pre reqs to Super Power.

    Oh, the stupid!!
  14. Tanchi

    Tanchi Patron with Honors

    I will! I dont go near them now.
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  15. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Sounds like a wise move.

    My father's mother in law (my grandmother) lived in our house and had to make herself scarce when my father got home from his work in the evening, but apart from that my family wasn't nearly as dysfunctional as the one you describe.
  16. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Yeh, the fast talkers that keep changing what they say, or diverting attention in all different directions. Good example, Wilbur.

    Full of energy. Yeh, the one who claimed she had a battery in her back was always moving-moving-moving when she was visible to others. Oh so busy and working so hard! The homeowner said she wondered where she got all her energy. What a show she made! She claimed she cooked, cleaned and washed clothes every day for everyone, changed the grandmother (never), blah blah. In actuality, she was always out shopping or socializing or sitting on the back deck smoking cigarette after cigarette. She ordered everyone around to do this or that, cooked one meal a day, usually from prepared foods (but never cleaned up her mess afterward), never washed, folded or put away any clothes (but could be occasionally seen busily moving clothes someone else washed from washer to dryer). She never, ever cleaned. She didn't wash dishes, clean glass, sweep, mop or any of that, and never, ever changed the grandmother, but she was always complaining and going on endlessly about all the work she did. She was too busy being in charge to do any actual work, but when she was visible to the homeowner, she had so much energy.

    What an act. :facepalm:

    You have to watch a person like that for a while to see what they actually do. 20 minutes of work in 24 hrs is about it, and only when they're visible to others. But that doesn't stop the endless yacking.
    Leland likes this.
  17. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Yes, this guy was really something. Certainly skilled at what he did. When he used to talk to me, I used to simply observe what he was doing. And I'd observe the fact that, as you listened to what he was yabbering on about, your attention would be pulled back and forth across different topics, and then he'd slip something in to the conversation when he thought you weren't 'looking', like a stage hypnotist, and try to have you agree with it. He was very adroit at that. But when he realised that I knew what he was doing, he singled me out as an enemy.

    It fascinated me to realise that there were actually people LIKE THAT. I think if anything approximates the concept of suppressive person that Hubbard delineated, it is people like that. He must have considered everything and everyone in his environment to be something that had to be conquered and subdued, tricked and conned.

    I once listened to some stuff on conversational hypnosis on youtube. The guy I was listening to set out the steps that are used in conversational hypnosis. Later, I was listening to a politician talking on the radio, and they followed the EXACT steps that this guy had set out. The steps were something like, say something that everyone can agree with, and then yabber on a bit, and at some point introduce a non-sequitur, that is subtle enough or slickly enough pulled off that it seems to relate to the agreeable truths that you previously heard.

    Going off track a bit: has anybody in the UK seen the Derren Brown shows? He is a mentalist that does elaborate shows, where he appears to read people's minds, manipulate their behaviour, etc. He does a show where he tricks someone to behave in a certain way, or where he manages to predict something that seems impossible, and then tells you how he did it. But I'm not totally convinced that his explanations are true. For example, in one show, he told someone to write down before the show a present that they would like to receive for their birthday. At the end of the show, he revealed a BMX bike to them as their present, and they were like "how did you know I wanted a BMX bike?". In fact, they had written something else down on the piece of paper, but, by placing various images in various places, and by using clever hypnotic language he managed to convince them to say they wanted a BMX. For example, one thing he said to them was "so you might have decided that you want a BM [i.e. a BMW] or an X-Box".And something like "by keeping the image in your mind..." (which he said as "bike keeping the image in your mind...". He used a lot of clever language like this to put the idea of BMX in their mind.

    This is how he explains his tricks. But I have a feeling that that's not really what he is doing (unless he records multiple versions of his show with different people, in case it doesn't work out - I don't think that kind of hypnosis would work on everyone).

    In another episode, he asked someone to choose a song, and he guessed it correctly. Then he showed that the person had been followed all day, and people were whistling the song around him, playing it around him, etc.

    Anyone have any thoughts on whether this is REALLY how Derren Brown's shows work? If this mechanism really works, then most of the population are just automatons. Though, to be honest, when I see how easily people are manipulated by advertising, I can quite believe that that is the case.
    JustSheila likes this.
  18. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Sorry to go on and on about this, but another thing just occurred to me about that fast-talking hypnotist-type guy. The first time I met him, I instantly disliked him. I couldn't quite put my finger on exactly what it was, what the details were, but I knew there was something sinister about him. It was only later, after spending more time observing him, that I was able to dissect exactly what he was doing and explain it in detail, but the hairs went up on my neck the first time I met him.

    It was a bit spooky, actually, as this guy followed me to a different city when I moved (I can't go into the details here), and then, when I moved again, his doppleganger appeared! It was like I was being followed by the same person, who could switch bodies if necessary. Really had me feeling paranoid at the time.

    I think this has parallels with my first experience of Scientology and Hubbard. I found it fascinating, and yet the metaphorical hairs stood up on the back of my neck, warning me that something sinister might be going on.

    I remember that when I used to go into the org, there was this feeling of trepidation, a sort of ache in my stomach, that used to come over me as I got closer and closer to the org. At the time, I assumed that this was because a lot of my auditing time was taken up with confessional-type stuff, coughing up stuff from my earlier life that was awkward and difficult to confront. But now, I suspect it might have simply been that my intuition told me that I was involved in a sinister cult.
    TheOriginalBigBlue likes this.
  19. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious


    It seems like that person has really captured your attention. That's another aspect of that kind of person that I have noticed - you end up thinking a lot about them, trying to analyse your interactions with them. It's almost like you've been gaslighted, and you are trying to analyse whether, in fact, your perceptions of them might be mistaken.

    All of the people in my past that I would characterise as sinister have that attribute. If I dream, it will often be about people like that. There's something about them that seems to suck attention out of you.

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  20. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Yeh,you're right. Creepy, insane people can be fascinating, but I like them better at a distance. It's SO icky to have to work with one like that.

    This just happened two days ago. I switched to another family, though, so it will wear off. Never gave her a chance to get her hooks in me too deeply. Been there, done that. I'm just too damn willing to help people sometimes and it's disheartening when some take advantage to serve their own selfish ends.