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Discussion in 'Scientology-related Videos' started by Veda, Jul 7, 2008.
What you do not get here are the numerous breaks in the lectures.
Sometimes a ship's horn would drown him out, some times he went into a violent burst of profanity, sometimes he got annoyed that someone was not paying total attention, or coughing. He would verbally abuse them (Hank Laarhuis)
if they coughed.He would have the tape wound back and continue with the delivery.
Listening to this again makes one realise that he was completely "away with the fairies".
The slip-ups (DC-8 with propellers etc) can be picked up quite easily.
Interesting that he is into the "the people will obey you" routine, "we own the planet" (Did TC use this as his mantra?).
The sad thing is that he completely believed his fantasies were reality.
I suppose that is one of the liabilities of a chronic drug history.
When you see the photos of him when in hiding, he looks a wreck. This is a man ravaged by self-abuse and personal neglect.
Clearly he "freewheeled" down the tone scale into hiding.
Maybe GOLD, SP Hall and the RPF are Incident 111 ?
Makes sense to me. The CoS will never "reform" according to this as if they were to go "evanglical" on saving the world the mobs would tear them to pieces. So they take on the valence of the civilization that betrayed and mass-implanted every body. Appeal to the "bank" agreement.....
The "philosophy" dates back to at least 1938.
The plan dates back to at least 1955.
Hubbard became the "Implanter" - officially - when he told Scientologists the (deadly serious, dangerous, too difficult to discover on their own, yet vital to their survival) contents of their own minds (and spaces) through his "Confidential Upper Level" materials.
He even gave them electro-meters, which would "tell them" that the dangerous and vital-to-survival significance (including Xenu) was "true," thus "using electronics to overwhelm with significance."
The "good stuff" of Scientology (sometimes simplistically called "White Scientology") is relegated to being merely the "bait" on the "hook."
Quite a brilliant synopsis.
You gotta wonder why he left the "pinks and greys" off of the checksheets....
"Here comes Uncle Ernie to guide you to... your very own machine....."
You really had to be there, at that time, in that place, Corfu, Oct, 1968 - the Original Class VIII Course was a complete continuous implant from beginning to end.
The overboards, the lack of sleep, the poor food, the chronically unsafe environment, the threats, the invalidation, the evaluations of what to run, what to think about your case, violated every aspect of the Auditors Code and ALL other Scio Codes.
The hours were from 7.30 am.......until long after Midnight - every day. Sleep deprivation abounded. (I handled this for myself by putting an "in session" sign on my cabin door and taking a 3 hour nap.)
The stress level was enormous - the amount of continuous violence, hatred, contempt and make nothing of emanating from LRH and the Commordore Staff - of each person there was incredible.
One could say that this was in actuality started in September, 1967 - in Las Palmas - it was then that the sleep deprivation and brutality began......slowly it got worse.......the SO people on the ship began to become shadows of themselves - this can be easily observed in the BBC interview of the crew in early 1968.
Very little auditing or training took place on the crews during this period. Mostly quicky stuff.
A different view
Without intent to offend anyone at all, but hoping to get some thoughts back even on a thread over a month old ...
How is it that a) so much of what LRH discovered actually exists, and b) how is it that running OT III in the early years of Scn enabled many to continue to true Operating Thetan (exterior at will with perceptics)?
(Hey, I know I'm new here and I can make incredibly dumb mistakes and be an ass at times, so please excuse less than Shakespeare / Superman / Mother Teresa Goodness.)
a) Recently, I asked of several non-scns (no previous contact with it), if they had some sort of recordings of the past that could be recalled. All three asserted they do. I asked if there was emotional content in some of those recordings. All three asserted there was.
b) No one has to believe me, but I've seen OTs (exterior at will with perceptics). I've met one who could literally push my body backwards three feet with intention alone. I myself have past life recall. (I've heard of spoon-bending outside of Scn, but have never seen such mind-over-matter phenomena.)
Is it possible that OT III is a process that works? Is it possible that what has happened to Scn is simply FUBAR (F___'d Up Beyond All Recognition) that more than once has characterized some of Mankind's best attempts at making things work?
No offense to the Olympics, but watching the kayaking competion, thinking about the time and effort those guys put into propelling a kayak through an artifical lake in order to be first in a race ... we do some pretty bizarre things. And "we" come to believe some pretty bizarre stuff (such as Islamic fundamentalism, basic inferiority of black men, and "I have not had sexual relations with that woman"). Looking at some of those things, OT III doesn't seem all that bizarre, by contrast.
There is and has been much discord amongst men and women on Earth, at many levels. It seems to me that in Dn and Scn we have come closest to finding a 'reason why' and improving the lives of very many people at many levels. It is my opinion that if the "lower levels" of Scn - the Grades, Power, and even the Clearing Course - were pursued with great diligence and honesty, with each individual taking responsibility for themselves at some point (I imagine many will call that last a footbullet), working with the basics of Scn, the individual could eventually produce a wisdom and ability in himself that would prove well worth the time and the work.
Of all those I have asked to improve upon or add something to the ARC triangle (Affinity, Reality, Communication) not one has had anything to say. Hubbard made some extremely major breakthroughs, to say the least.
With best wishes,
P.S. Short form of the above: OT III worked for me. So did all the earlier processes. The problems I've run into were with others not using the tech correctly, and making mistakes which I had to go back and correct.
I'm just responding to this point, not the others. There is no logical connection between the fact that doing the procedure can produce beneficial results, and the theory that goes along with it being correct. There is the incidental fact that they both came from Hubbard, but that doesn't change the point.
You can eat believing that by so doing you are propitiating the god Mukluq, and if you fail to do that he will respond by making your stomach hurt, and the longer you don't propitiate him the more your stomach will hurt and you will eventually get emaciated and die as a punishment. The fact that those things happen doesn't mean the theory is correct.
Yes, I see that. (My biggest problem is that I seem to have developed an uncanny knack for being thought of as an intelligent good guy ... but "Unpopular" would an apt description of my social experience. That's one area of Scn I wish to hell somebody would work on, instead of some OT Level XXX )
My question - no doubt out of synch - is: are we going to pull the illogical move of dumping all over all of Scn because one level of the theory is improbable, even though it can work if used well? I saw a documentary about locomotion in the animal kingdom that pointed out the extreme improbability that man walks upright. According to physics, what we do in walking is 'almost impossible'. So should we give up roller-blading?
The dumping all over Scn mainly stems from the human rights abuses, not because they have some weird dogma. You must know that!
a) What did LRH discover?
b) Did it? Conflicts with a lot of other data out there on the subject. Perhaps you have some specifics that would help us understand how you came to that conclusion?
Are you referring to 'mental' recordings? If so, whats your point exactly. I too can run this sort of recall. Probably why Dianetics appealed so much to me when I read it. Its simply recalling something from the past, and delving into deeply, through use of perceptions. Like a memory on steriods.
This I find hard to believe, sorry. And I'll tell you why. Is this guy/gal still pushing you around? Is he still exterior, and niggling away at you, or using his intention to move you? If not, why not? How long did he do it? How do you know he did it? How do you know it wasn't a natural reaction to something that he has claimed credit for?
I have no problem with the concept of past life recall. But this is still a bit hard to prove, isn't it? How do you know its not dream recall? I don't mean to invalidate, but there are usually more than one possible explanations.
One word for you ART - Xenu.
Ok, a few more words
First of all, the Church lies about its beliefs. Thats more immoral than weird. But the belief is wierd. And yes many groups have weird beliefs. And why try and compare it anyway. What are you trying to achieve by doing that?
What does Scientology have to do with personal responsibility. Either a person is or isn't responsible. I have not known Scientology to make someone MORE responsible. I have known LIFE to make someone more responsible.
However, on observation - has Scientology succeeded? Is it flourishing and prospering? Is the application of its tech really changing the world as we know it? Look and decide for yourself.
I think you know my answer.
Art, old chap,
Here's an informative thread on Exteriorization. Have you read it? Feel free to add to it with your insights.
Much thanks, will read. Best, Art.
[In advance - I don't know how these quote thingies work here, so apologies if this doesn't show up as your reply to mine did.]
I respect any intelligent thought and opinion. Please allow me to make it clear that I oppose the Cos in its current and probably any future form that is not based on an entirely free-market competitive model. I do not oppose Scn philosophy (I support it), but my intent is not to convert anyone or to interfere with anyone's activities as long as these do not threaten or injure my activities. In keeping with my perception and use of Scn I encourage anyone's independent thought and desires for a better life.
Hubbard defined the ARC triangle I mentioned. Affinity, Reality, Communication. Everyone has a level of affinity, a reality, and is able to communicate. All three taken together constitute Understanding. That I know, neither psych nor media defined this.
If memory on steroids can cause emotional upsets in the present that are hard for an individual to control, wouldn't it be better to resolve that? Apparently, just wishing it away doesn't work, but reviewing an entire chain of unpleasant past events will discharge it.
I've seen other guys and girls who can use their intention, politely or not. It isn't an exclusive to Scns. But I'd never felt intention as strong as this one OT's. (It was a one-time one-second event, btw - I don't have ghosts following me around pushing me into walls. Your humor, even if pointed at me, is appreciated as funny.)
I agree there are often more than one possible explanations, and finding the right ones are a big win. Past life recall probably isn't "provable". "Proof" can always be challenged. Leibnitz, for example, a "noted" German "philosopher" challenged that matter was merely a figment of imagination, and could not be "proven" to exist. (I almost took out my former college roommate over that one, to "prove" to him that matter existed. ) A few years later, he was the guy that intro'ed me to Scn.
Hubbard came along into that degredation of thought and affirmed that one's own rightness is senior. What a man knows to be true, is true.
Again, your wit is appreciated.
Oh, I am NOT supporting the CoS!! Those [censored] have lied to me, cost me time, and obstructed my freedoms in a big way!! And the CoS conduct in my view is doubly outrageous and in fact criminal. I'm skeptical about a lot of ex-Scns in the FZ, too, but at least in the FZ I have a choice.
Neo, I agree with you. To me, your willigness to talk and even consider viewpoints you are highly skeptical about is responsible behavior. The idea is that an individual through the philosophy of Scn can further develop his innate responsibility. But with all due respect, responsibility is a darn big subject. One can argue that responsible men succeed more frequently, because others recognize and reward responsible qualities. But then you'll get someone saying that success is wealth and wealthy men are crooks.
I hope I've succeeded in being polite and of some interest. The most responsible thing I can say is that you're a responsible man able to tell what is true and what is false on your own. (Like a past life, you are able to identify the notion of responsibility, but can you "prove" responsibility exists? Is it merely a "belief" that man is basically good?)
Your opposition to the CoS coincides in many respects with my opposition to the CoS, and I don't want to blunt your opposition to the CoS. But I can't sit by comfortably and smile when I see anyone make a mistake - I just think the philosophy of Scn has some important truths and shouldn't be thrown entirely away.
Yes, very definitely. I just don't ascribe to the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" ONLY because of the mutual enemy status. I believe there is a coincidence of perception of truth - whatever that may be - and I don't want to see good men hurt themselves. My belief is that Hubbard if he knows of what's going on within the CoS would be rolling over in his grave (as the saying goes), or super-pissed, somewhere.
This isn't Enturb. I would never invade Enturb's space and tout Scn I'd get creamed flat. The prior posts, I thought, were about "wierd dogma" and not about "human rights abuses". I'm just saying there is a lot in Scn that cannot be rationally dismissed just because one part of it looks funky.
If you think of what Scn MIGHT have been had everything gone along as it had been going up to the mid 1970's when everything started falling apart, when most Scns were pretty happy people and winning, then compare that to the travesty of Scn that the CoS has made it today, I think you may agree with my outrage and opposition to the CoS.
Yes, but there are 5,314 threads on ESMB right now. I don't think most people base their opinions of Scn on this one thread alone.
DWow. I'm too new to have seen how many threads there are. Point taken. I'm hyper. Maybe it's something I need to yawn off Best, Art.
Bingo. This is how I feel about acupuncture, too. Acupuncture definitely works for me, but I don't buy the theory behind why it works.
Well, the dumping depends on why one's in. Here, it's human rights abuses, because many of us have experienced them first hand. In other places, it's because of the weird dogma.
I personally don't care what other people believe in as long as they're consenting adults and not hurting anyone.
Unfortunately, Scn policy is very explicit about hurting people: "Never fear to hurt another in a just cause." That is the biggest piece of bullshit I've ever seen, and it encourages mocking up rationalizations that are indefensible.