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Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Pip, Jul 11, 2011.

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  1. Pip

    Pip Patron with Honors

    I have decided to "come out of the closet" since a guy from Canada phoned me as a result of my websites: or I have not updated them for sometime but as a result of getting in com. with him it has encouraged me to persist.

    I know some of you have a back-off from God and "all that", but on the basis of the "bigger the ARC the bigger the ARC break" I would rather be honest from the beginning than pretend I am something I am not.

    I am "born again" and also "Clear" which I maintain is an unstoppable combination.
  2. Emma

    Emma Con te partirĂ² Administrator

    So how do you feel about Hubbard denying Christ?

    From "Assists" lecture. 3 October 1968. #10 in the confidential Class VIII series of lectures:
    "Anyway, Everyman is then shown to have been crucified so don't think that it's an accident that this crucifixion, they found out that this applied. Somebody somewhere on this planet, back about 600 BC, found some pieces of R6, and I don't know how they found it, either by watching madmen or something, but since that time they have used it and it became what is known as Christianity. The man on the Cross. There was no Christ. But the man on the cross is shown as Everyman. So of course each person seeing a crucified man, has an immediate feeling of sympathy for this man. Therefore you get many PCs who says they are Christ. Now, there's two reasons for that, one is the Roman Empire was prone to crucify people, so a person can have been crucified, but in R6 he is shown as crucified."
  3. marjan

    marjan Patron with Honors

    Ooops... Kinda hard to be a "born again Scientology Christian" after that one, ain't it?
  4. ClamSource

    ClamSource Patron with Honors

    Scientology's reincarnation is heretical to Christianity. Christian friends/family who point this out to you will be declared SP.

    As a Christian you can't disconnect from friends and family. Failure to disconnect as directed by Scientology would see you declared SP.

    So you're a heretic and an SP. How's that working out for you?
  5. Pip

    Pip Patron with Honors

    The fact that Jesus was crucified is only a part of the story. He lived - died - and rose from the dead.

    I am well aware that the Romans crucified many of their supposed enemies, but that is not the point, it is the fact that He rose from the dead and in so doing overcame the last enemy and demonstrated our true identities as eternal beings.

    As for "Hubbard denying Christ" in the forward to some of Ron's early books he names Jesus Christ as source material, that is why I posted "Was LRH Being Groomed".
  6. Pip

    Pip Patron with Honors

    I am not a Scientology Christian - I am a Christian Scientologist. I am not saying I understand love, I am saying I love understanding.
  7. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Two great cults that go great together!
  8. thefatman

    thefatman Patron with Honors

    Prove it.

    Also, what about Hubbard saying Jesus was in cahoots with this guy:

  9. ClamSource

    ClamSource Patron with Honors

    Christians believe redemption comes from God's grace.

    Scientologists redemption comes from e-meters and heavy regging.

    As a Christian, you believe in charity. As a Scientologist, you're out exchange. Giving to the needy when you could be donating to Scientology's coffers is a suppressive act.

    I can make up ideas all day long for why you're both a heretic and an SP.
  10. Petey C

    Petey C Silver Meritorious Patron

    Hey, you guys, give Pip a break. He (or she) was brave enough to stand up for his/her beliefs and be honest and open about them (despite accurately predicting the response), and in my world s/he can believe whatever s/he likes provided it does no harm to others. Remember freedom of religion? I say all of this as a non-Christian, non-muslim, non-buddhist, non-hindu, non-Jew and non-just about anything else you care to name.

    Pip, good on you. Many people here may not agree with you and that's their right too.

  11. Petey C

    Petey C Silver Meritorious Patron

    ... and having said that, Pip, perhaps you need to look more carefully at what organised scientology is actually up to, and see whether it really is something you want to keep doing.

  12. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Didn't Monty Python do a skit about this? - 'And now to something entirely different: A christian Scientologist!' :unsure:

    Hmm.. Nah.. T'was the 'Dead parrot ' skit.. About Scientology.. And then it was Dave Allen doing one about christianity: Dude confessing his sins in a booth.. Well, the sins was unforgivable, so the wicker opened a trapdoor in the booth and the parishoner was engulfed in hells flames!

    Think me! - I was out looking for Blu-Ray movies.. And I saw 'The Road to Perdition', and I felt my spirits rise: 'Holy crapola! - They did the Scientology Movie!!' - Oh, well, turned out to be about something else.. I did buy it anyway, since the cast of actors looked good.. Anybody seen it?

  13. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    A person COULD be a Christian and a Scientologist in a few ways:

    1) The Christian has done SOME of Scientology and considers themselves a Scientologist. But not the OT levels. Because they would have "disagreements" with Source and would need "disagreement checks" and other "false data" handlings to KSW.

    2) The Christian was of some PR or Celebrity value to Scientology. Then Scientology would not harass them but use them instead.

    3) The Christian was a source of income to Scientology. Red carpet treatment until the money runs out. Then to ethics when your eligibility is in question because of "other practices".

    If you really intend to pursue your "Bridge to Total Freedom" you will be auditing space aliens for a decade or more. Is that anything that Jesus ever mentioned?

    Really, are you serious?
  14. Pip

    Pip Patron with Honors

    It is important to differenciate between reality and truth. Reality is always set in time, truth is in eternity. The teachings of Jesus Christ are in eternity, not in time. We know from Scientology that time is an apparency so reincarnation is also an apparency. We tend to confuse apparency with actuality. So you see I am neither a heretic or an SP, after all the definition of OT is no track.
  15. ClamSource

    ClamSource Patron with Honors

    If you're saying Jesus was able to reincarnate because he was OT, that means he could just "exteriorize" and didn't suffer crucifixion as a man, which is heresy.

    If you're saying he couldn't exteriorize, you're denying him his big win, which is a suppressive act.

    SP heretic x3
  16. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Well, Hubbard didn't deny Jesus. He denied Christ. Not the same thing. (Jesus was the man, Christ means "The anointed one") He said that Jesus was a leader among men. Which I think means that he thought there was a spiritual leader named Jesus (Yeshua) but that Yeshua was not god. Still, an interesting conundrum for a Christian Scn'ist.

    Hubbard thought the murdered god thing was a type of implant. I'd not go so far, though I do think it's a Jungian archetype.

    Ultimately, a person can be a Christian Scn'ist, a non CofS Scn'ist, or just about any other combination. But, IMO, they'd do so by being a bit heretical and thinking for themselves.

    Good on ya, Pip!
  17. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Do you disagree with Ron Hubbard when he says that he has been to Heaven (but not thru Jesus or God)?

    What do you think about his description of it as a run-down decrepit place?

    What do you think will happen when you tell the other students on course that you think Ron was wrong when he wrote Scn scripture about heaven being an implant used to control and enslave---not what the Bible or Jesus said. you believe BOTH the Biblical word on Heaven AND that it was an implant. In other words, do you simultaneously believe that Heaven is both the best and the worst possible place?
  18. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Yes, maybe some of you guys could be a bit less confrontational toward Pip. We all have our different paths and just because it's not yours doesn't mean you have to be a dick.
  19. Pip

    Pip Patron with Honors

    I agree seperately they are indeed cults, but together they make a completion - LOVE and UNDERSTANDING.
  20. ClamSource

    ClamSource Patron with Honors

    Jesus said ""Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest." but you stay in ARC with SPs and you'll be declared.

    Jesus said "Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." But you try to initiate comms to the RPF, and Davey will beat you to a bloody pulp.