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" I CHING " Anyone else read it ? Follow it ?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Auditor's Toad, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. Student of Trinity

    Student of Trinity Silver Meritorious Patron

    "The Man in the High Castle" is amazing. It's just a really good alternate history fantasy, until the very end. I've been thinking about the ending for years.

    I think I agree with Uniquemand. The I Ching is not really an oracle, but oracular thinking is natural for humans. The only thing I'd add, though, is that the I Ching has been optimized over a long time to work as a pseudo-oracle. The dictionary hasn't. So although I think the I Ching is really working on the same principle as the random dictionary entry, I think it works a bit better. The Tarot is kind of similar.

    To be concrete, I see two values in these random pseudo-oracles. On the one hand, their randomness may introduce ideas that you wouldn't otherwise have thought of. On the other hand, their randomness may be the excuse that your inhibitions need, to let the subconscious ideas that you have had for a long time become consciously recognized.

    It's the second possibility, I think, that accounts for the occasional sense of "Of course! That rings true!" that one sometimes gets from random pseudo-oracles.
  2. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    To some extent that is true. Some people seem to have something of a "gift" however for "oracular interpretation". By this latter I mean the ability to perceive symbols and interpret them in a way meaningful to a present circumstance.

    Dream interpretation is one such. I Ching & Tarot are other possible systems. What seems to matter is that there are a variety of symbolically rich elements present which in turn lend themselves to varying interpretation. The individual brings his own "perceptiveness" (however you may think of that) and ability to select & interpret the symbolic elements present in a meaningful context. Some are very good at it. Others suck. Whether this is accounted as an instance of "second sight" or a natural "gift for human psychology" is again a matter of interpretation.

    Yes, it is symbolically rich as is mythic art.

    Mark A. Baker
  3. Mockingbird6

    Mockingbird6 Patron with Honors

    Back to the concept that things happen and we interpret the "fortune-cookie" wisdom to fit what happened:

    I was thinking just the other day about the reason people have a "sag" in life after leaving Scientology, (other than because they've been cursed out loud for leaving and they think it's going to come true.)

    I realized that when we are in Scientology (or Bible Baptist or you-name-it) we hold the belief that because we have this magical thing going on, we are better, brighter, more capable people. We hold the thing up as our "magic shield." I've seen my best friend do this with a picture of a saint that was going to protect her.

    But when we drop that subject, we have lost our magic shield. We think we are no longer lucky, smart, strong, etc.

    The way to handle this is to realize that we were the actual ones causing the "magic shield" effect due to our own real abilities. While Scientology processing helped me improve abilities, the church took credit for creating the magic shield.

    How this relates to the above? I'm perfectly happy when someone is happy with the way the IChing or Tarot works, whether they are imagining it or not, or even if they are causing the effects and then because they have a certain vibe going, the book opens to the page responding to that vibe, whatever.

    But I prefer to understand it more from the viewpoint of "I'm doing it." That works better for me.
  4. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Well, I don't know if this will be of use, and it most definitely doesn't fit into the theme of this thread, but here's a partial attempted explanation.

    The Yang and Yin of the I Ching proceed from an un-manifest ("0") that has infinite potential.

    First a link with some general background information and links: (Some redundancy.)

    And a few more links.

    Scroll way down to see Patricia Waldygo's painting of the Kabbalistic Tree of life:

    Here is a diagram of the main points on the "Tree" and their correspondences with the eight tri-grams of the I Ching: and I Ching Trigrams.JPG

    Scientology's "Four Conditions of Existence" can be found on the "Tree," and correspond with the "Tetragrammaton" - the four key components of the "Tree." These might be said to be the four ingredients constituting the recipe for existence.

    The Kabbalistic Tetragrammaton corresponds with what the bi-grams of the I Ching.

    The "Know to Mystery Scale," and other scales, also can be traced to the "Tree."

    Scientology's 'The Factors', also has correspondences to the "Tree."

    Chokmah and Binah (on the "Tree," see Waldaygo link) are the first and second condition (of pre-existence really). These would correspond with what most people know as Yang and Yin of Chinese Cosmology. They also correspond with Scientology's as-isnes (as a condition of pre-existence, not as it is commonly regarded, by Scientologists, as, essentially, making something vanish.)

    However, "correspond with" and "=" are not quite the same.

    This is as much as I'll say, as it probably sounds like gobbledygook, and as already noted, it's off topic for the theme of this thread.
  5. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    I like what Student of trinity, Mockingbird, UM and others said.

    But just for fun put this question in the online I Ching and digitally threw the coins six times.

    "What do you say about the discussion about the I Ching on ESMB"

    This is the reading:

    Cast Hexagram:

    Hexagram 58
    Tui - The Joyous, Lake
    above: Tui / The Joyous, Lake
    below: Tui / The Joyous, Lake

    This hexagram, like Sun, is one of the eight formed by doubling of a trigram. The trigram Tui denotes the youngest daughter; it is symbolised by the smiling lake, and its attribute is joyousness. Contrary to appearances, it is not the yielding quality of the top line that accounts for joy here. The attribute of the yielding or dark principle is not joy but melancholy. However, joy is indicated by the fact that there are two strong lines within, expressing themselves through the medium of gentleness.
    True joy, therefore, rests on firmness and strength within, manifesting itself outwardly as yielding and gentle.


    THE JOYOUS. Success.
    Perseverance is favourable.

    The joyous mood is infectious and therefore brings success. But joy must be based on steadfastness if it is not to degenerate into uncontrolled mirth. Truth and strength must dwell in the heart, while gentleness reveals itself in social intercourse. In this way one assumes the right attitude toward God and man and achieves something. Under certain conditions, intimidation without gentleness may achieve something momentarily, but not for all time. When, on the other hand, the hearts of men are won by friendliness, they are led to take all hardships upon themselves willingly, and if need be will not shun death itself, so great is the power of joy over men.


    Lakes resting one on the other:
    The image of THE JOYOUS.
    Thus the superior man joins with his friends
    For discussion and practice.

    A lake evaporates upward and thus gradually dries up; but when two lakes are joined they do not dry up so readily, for one replenishes the other. It is the same in the field of knowledge. Knowledge should be a refreshing and vitalising force. It becomes so only through stimulating intercourse with congenial friends with whom one holds discussion and practices application of the truths of life. In this way learning becomes many-sided and takes on a cheerful lightness, whereas there is always something ponderous and one-sided about the learning of the self-taught.
  6. Mockingbird6

    Mockingbird6 Patron with Honors

    Damn! I wish I coulda said that!
  7. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Or, for the cynically inclined: we're all wet. :p

    Mark A. Baker
  8. Ruth Nighswonger

    Ruth Nighswonger New Member


    Hello everyone, I have lurked for a long time, and have finally decided to post under my real name. I left Scientology in 1989, after completing OTVII and realizing Scientology didn't work. I have never looked back or regretted my decision to leave. I now consider myself an Ex-scientologist and will never be duped again.

    I have since that time, continued studying other metaphysical subjects, one of which is the I Ching.

    I love the I Ching. And I'm glad to see other ex-scientologists are interested in it as well.

    I first became aware of it when I was a teenager and noticed my mother reading it. Since she was very impressed by C. Jung, who recommended the I Ching, she naturally was interested in reading it.

    Years later, after I had left Scientology, I picked up a copy of the Wilheim translation of I Ching. I also picked up a workbook by R.L. Wing called "The I Ching Workbook". I have studied both off and on for 15 years, and continue to find them both invaluable.

    I have had many incredible experiences with the IChing, and I will tell you of one.

    The evening of September 10, 2001, I wanted to consult with the I Ching before retiring. In using the I Ching, the hexagram "51" manifested. This hexagram is known as "Shocking, Thunder" signifies in human affairs a shocking turn of events, an unpredictable, cataclysmic occurrence.

    I was naturally disturbed by the hexagram, and wondered what might be in store. It didn't take long to find out. The next day, after the 911 event in New York, I realized what the I Ching had been warning of. Fortunately, I was not in New York City at the time.

    I also find just reading the I Ching as literature is very worthwhile, as it helps you to reflect over life and its meaning.

    Ruth Nighswonger
    Ex- OTVII
    Ex- Cl 6 auditor

  9. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I'd like to hear about any readings you have had that you were unable to find any translation to real events. I'm very interested in how many times it has failed to yield useful results, by comparison to how many times it yielded useful results.
  10. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Welcome. Do you think that page was written in the I Ching specifically so that you could find it just before 9/11? At least on OT VII (as far as I know) they give you an e-meter, cans, sec checks, immortality, powerz, spirits friends and foes, self importance, space opera, millions of lifetimes of history, and more.
    I'd say scientology bangs you more for your buck, than the I Ching just based on what you have said. All the I Ching did was to give you the 9am news a little earlier than usual. Even with that you had to wait for the real news. I think I'll start watching the news now for spiritual fulfullment. The I Ching reading was about joy. Joy to you.:)
  11. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Two roads diverged......

    Spiritual: I Ching

    Scientology: Ka Ching

  12. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Yeah, some drop the "H" and some don't:

    The High Ching:
  13. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    Does anyone know of an accurate model for the probabilities of the various lines? Apparently the moving lines are "less common" than the fixed ones.

    I'd like to find some inventive ways of using the I Ching, such as a very physical one (throwing medicine balls in a gymnasium, say, and seeing where they end up) and a playful one like a pinball machine where the ball ends up in one of four pockets, after a journey of varying difficulty to represent the various probabilities, representing each of the four lines.

    BTW, I accept peoples'point that strictly speaking the i Ching is not an oracle; I don't claim my understanding is anything but superficial.
  14. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    Am I allowed to advertise on here? If anyone's looking for an I Ching reading I can recommend this lady from personal experience;

    Good site too.
  15. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    my take on the i Ching is that my guardian angels or spiritual teammates control my coins. the reading seem, not just from my subjective view, but from friends also, to be spot on.
  16. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    How do they do that?
  17. The Great Zorg

    The Great Zorg Gold Meritorious Patron

    Try my CONETICS. It has helped many!
  18. Mockingbird6

    Mockingbird6 Patron with Honors

    I think that reading a prediction makes a person prone to causing it to come true. However, that is not possible in the case of 9/11. Interesting story.
  19. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Could have referred to another shocking event. Perhaps it had to do with American Idol.
  20. nozeno

    nozeno Gold Meritorious Patron

    I do readings

    Please call for current price list.