ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



I finally got it...

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Mojo, Oct 18, 2007.

View Users: View Users
  1. Mojo

    Mojo Silver Meritorious Patron

    ...I'm living my life on the wrong board. I've been trying to say things that the people on this board don't want to (and don't need to) hear.

    If I thought I was an idiot before, I really understand what an idiot I am, now.

    To those whom I have offended, I apologize. Sincerely. With all of my heart.

    I think it's time to turn in my computer and call it a day. (or a life).

    Good luck to you all.

    I love you.

    Lar
     
  2. nexus100

    nexus100 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Goodbye! Send money when you get work.
     
  3. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader


    Oh the love.
     
  4. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I don't think you are an idiot. I think your posts have raised some interesting points and I have enjoyed reading them, even if I haven't been involved in any of the discussions so far. :)
     
  5. Mojo

    Mojo Silver Meritorious Patron

    Now that was damn funny.
     
  6. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Try googling Lover of Truth, Herc, Xenus Uncle, Augustine, LaughingLion, etc.

    Then see definition of troll.
     
  7. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    OK got it! This is new stuff to me. :)
    ps love your sig.
     
  8. Mojo

    Mojo Silver Meritorious Patron

    Perhaps you will give us your definition of a troll?
     
  9. Mojo

    Mojo Silver Meritorious Patron

    Thanks Free to shine. I appreciate your comments.

    In post 6 of this thread Fluffy wrote: Try googling Lover of Truth, Herc, Xenus Uncle, Augustine, LaughingLion, etc.

    Then see definition of troll. [end quote]

    In post 7 you responded: OK got it! This is new stuff to me....[end of quote]

    I respectfully suggest the definition of a troll (in the way Fluffy implies it) is nonsense, in regard to my posts and to myself Free to Shine.

    I write to encourage thought. To encourage debate. To encourage an exchange of ideas. Of which all of my posts (or at least 98 % of them, lol) by LoverofTruth, Herc, Xenu's Uncle etc will confirm after a casual, let alone a careful inspection, to be true (at least in terms of sincerity). After over 7 years of posting and producing and engaging in numerous discussions on numerous boards (with the brightest of minds) of significant ideas in regard to scientology (pause) Fluffs characterization of me as being a troll can reasonably be construed as a scientology-hangover of dead-agenting.

    With all due respect to Claire, she seems to be stuck in the idea that the author/nick of a message is senior to the message itself. While in truth it is not. As any message/post either stands or falls on its own merits. Regardless of the author of it.

    I change nicks like I change clothes. With my body being unaffected. Where by my body I mean my spirit. Which is my spirit. In form.

    I love Claire. She hates me. So be it. We're both mere figments of each others imagination anyway. Having never actually met one another.

    But please Free to Shine, if possible, do not judge me according to someone elses presentation of me. Allow me to present myself. In present time. Not as to who I was. But as to who I am. Subject to change with growth.

    Thanks,

    Lar

    aka Mojo etc et al.......
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2007
  10. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Thanks--thought it would be a fun sig to have...

    Nice to have you here.

    This forum's doing so well and getting lots of contributors. There's a perception elsewhere in critic-dom that this forum's mostly Scientologists or those sympathetic to it. That's not true and I think that's fairly obvious-- lots of people here who have no interest in practicing or studying Scn.

    Good to have a mix of people on a board like this...
     
  11. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Oh I do make my own observations and decisions. :yes:
    I am just getting to know who is who.
     
  12. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I want to find a good sig but nothing really tickles my fancy yet. I'll keep working on it. :thumbsup:

    I agree about the mix of posts, that's why I keep coming back. There are many levels of "ex" and I imagine most of us have experienced the different stages at one time or another. It's too easy for others to be judgemental sometimes, but each experience is unique, and in my opinion is about the recovery of a self lost to the ideas of others. :)
     
  13. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I'm finding that the longer I'm out and away from the jaws of the Church, the more tolerant I am becoming of Scientologists and LRH-type ideas.

    What fueled much of my desire to expose and criticize Scientology was the danger that I saw they represented to individuals and to society.

    But now I am realizing that there were people who tried to warn me - very overtly warn me - about Scientology as I was getting in, and I was having none of it. In fact, I had as a stated goal to handle them so that they would give up and decide not to fuck with me and my decision to become a Scientologist.

    I had very deep and personal reasons for becoming a Scientologist that no one of them could possibly understand. Nor did they have a viable alternative for me that would address my personal reasons for joining at the time.

    It was a matter of me having to learn for myself. And, as I've said over and over, Scientology helped me tremendously at that time of my life.

    Alan once said that anyone who tends to represent or look like LRH gets attacked in forums like this. I think that's true. So true that it "indicated" to me.

    And thereafter I started to become more tolerant of LRH-looking people and ideas.

    The question is:

    Is that progress, or reversion?
     
  14. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    I'm noticing an unspoken (and very clammy :)) assumption in much of this thread; that 'criticism' is the equivalent of enmity or 'wanting the thing criticized to stop'.

    That's not true. Criticism is criticism. It could be taken as a suggestion for improvement, but, often it's merely a statement of position, such as 'I think that looks ugly'. That's not the same as saying 'I want that destroyed'.

    If Scientology weren't bound to its insane dogmas re: criticism, it would be practically ignored by the 'wog' world. It's the attempts to hammer out criticism that ends up pulling in opposition, which is a good step beyond mere criticism.

    Most of the FZers I've met have made some accomodation for the reality of being unable to control criticism, and, therefore have much less opposition than the 'Church', although it's often an uncomfortable accomodation (for them.)

    Zinj
     
  15. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    How long should one criticize something?

    Over and over and over until, it "improves" (read) changes to be what you want it to be?
     
  16. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    I don't think there's a 'rule' :)

    I do it whenever I feel like it, like most people, including Scientologists, who are no pikers on 'criticizing' (anything but Scientology or Ron.)

    It's often a matter of practicality. In a discussion forum there has to be a lot of slack in accepting some things 'for argument's sake', but, sometimes there's a 'bone of contention' that needs gnawing.

    Zinj
     
  17. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Alanzo, I have been dealing with this stuff on and off for nearly 4 decades. It comes and goes, right now for some reason the whole subject raises it's head once again, hence I found this board. I figure there is something more to learn.

    I had wins too, though to be honest their memories are fading in the mists of time and I currently feel a lot of anger at some of the things that happened to me. Balance will return though. :)

    I'm not sure what you mean by "LRH-looking people"?

    I just find that I can't be extreme with those who are still so totally blinkered because I remember all too well being the same way. And I never thought that would change. Now I stand on the other side of the fence and though it breaks my heart sometimes to watch the covert amd overt destruction of individuality, I also see myself as I used to be. Maybe it's an experience that has to be allowed to run it's course? I wish I could short circuit it for loved ones, yet I do believe we all tred out own paths for whatever reason.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with tolerance in the area of letting others find their way out of fixed ideas. Sometimes just a word can help shift a viewpoint a few degrees to the left, so to speak, and change a life. That certainly doesn't happen when it's part of an attack, we've all experienced that.

    I've met and talked to many, many people with different faiths/ideas/philosophies in my recovery process and there are threads of similar truths running through them all. They get peverted and misused for sure, yet that doesn't detract from those truths if one is prepared to look.

    So nup, I don't think it's reversion. I think it's about growing more aware. :thumbsup:
     
  18. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Just in the last few days, I am realizing that "Ex-Scientologist" can be a valence in itself.

    I remember once when I was diagnosed with a particular medical condition. There was a newsgroup on it. I got on the newsgroup and learned all kinds of things about the condition. Tons of resources were opened up to me that I would never have had but for the group of others who shared this condition with me.

    But then I began to realize that these people were self-indentifying with this medical condition. And I didn't want a self I built based on a medical condition!

    So I quit hanging out there. I go back every once in a while to keep in touch with updates in the industry and to make sure that I understand all the new things coming out about it.

    I had a (completely non-Scientology) friend last night tell me that they should give me a dollar for every night I could get through without using the word "Scientology".

    She was very very right. It's a part of myself. And its a part of myself that I am still projecting out into the world.

    I'm wondering whether it's good for someone who has been involved with The Mindfuck to have years and years of their lives where they are completely disconnected from anything and everything having to do with Scientology, including ex-Scientology.

    What do you think of that?
     
  19. Emma

    Emma Con te partirĂ² Administrator

    I think it's part of the process.

    I've virtually lost all interest in discussing scientology as such. If not for wanting to provide a platform for others to discuss their experiences (hence ESMB) I probably wouldn't be posting anywhere anymore.

    I do believe you get over it...if not completely, at least to the extent where Scientology or *ex* scientology doesn't enter your head every day.

    If these boards provide any service at all, I think it is that they allow people to talk and talk until they are sick of it. Sometimes it takes a year, sometimes 10 or more.
     
  20. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    The key Hubbard reference on criticism concerns IIRC "carping, 1.1 criticism not borne out in fact" which is, of course, a very narrow part of the criticism band. Nevertheless, that never stopped anyone in the CoS from making wrong any criticism whatsoever.