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I love Scientology

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by egghead, Aug 4, 2008.

  1. Pixie

    Pixie Crusader

    Exactly, so why bother arguing, why not just let him get on with it? If he has something to learn he'll learn in his own time surely, what is the point of trying to 'convince' someone that they have to have the same thoughts and beliefs as yourself.. :duh:
  2. asagai

    asagai Patron Meritorious

    Yes, as you are creative/inventive/lying about "facts" about yourself, then you are also an unreliable source as regards opinions, concepts or ideas that "Alex" originates.

    Fine, absolutely fine, you are saying you will invent whatever you wish without any link to anything real as regards yourself or scientology.

    Unreliable source is unreliable source! Now we know, thanks.
  3. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    That may be so, but let me play devil's advocate here: there are a lot of boxes people seem to reside in, all sorts of people. We all have our blind spots and our strong areas.

    Alex is here, he's civil, he's having fun, he listens to people and seems to play fair. Yes, he has a different point of view, but it's nice to not have everyone think the same things. Gives us all more to discuss. So we could have fun with it. This isn't meant as a poke at you, at all, Iknowtoomuch. I've always liked your posts - whether or not I agree with them- and think you're an nice person with whom to have a conversation.
  4. asagai

    asagai Patron Meritorious

    It's not a case of arguing. I personally am not arguing with Alex at all - in fact I am totally agreeing with him and going along with what he says.

    I'm not trying to convince him to think anything.

    But simply, now we know he is a self-confessed unreliable source we now know that any opinion or idea or fact he expresses about scientology is unreliable, he has said he doesn't mean what he says, that's absolutely fine!
  5. asagai

    asagai Patron Meritorious

    Exactly and now we know that any appearance "he" presents here, be it "fair", "civil", "fun", "different" is not a representation of whoever the real person is. (I assume there is one!)

    Whatever he presents to us, is unreliable. Cool! Let's have fun! Unreliable source is unreliable source! :hysterical:
  6. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    I'm not sure I know that or not, though. I do know Alex has sometimes baited people too much in the past but, well, that could also be a facet of his personality. People can be rather quirky and not always consistent.
  7. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think your second paragraph is the sort of inference that I refer to when I suggest you fill in the blanks. You have filled in data I have left out about my personal life, with good reason, with data that matches your preconceived notions.

    Anyone who would read what I say on the internet and not examine it further, and acts on it, would be a fool anyway. So I will keep on posting my unreliable opinions and unreliable ideas, and now that you have so throughly warned everyone, I will not have to fear a bit that I man delude anyone.

    Thanks (as I said before).

    alex (who is wondering how an opinion can be unreliable anyway...)
  8. asagai

    asagai Patron Meritorious

    Examples of unreliable opinions: An opinion can be disingenuous (giving a false appearance of simple frankness) or can bear no resemblance to one's actual opinion.

    Just like you can invent facts about being on Scn course, you can invent an opinion about Scn, which you don't really hold.

    That's great. Go ahead.

    My second paragraph was filling in no gaps I'm just agreeing with what you said that you may or may not make up things as "Alex":
    Alex is a pseudonym. A created character to some extent and one I have allowed others input, to add to.

    But for me, having the avenue of an anonymous character through whom I can say and do things that I may in real life, not, is very liberating.

    Unrelaible source is unreliable source!

    Note I'm not saying anything you say in future is false, I'm just saying it is an unreliable picture you are painting of the real person behind Alex.

    I have helped liberate you Alex! :coolwink:

    Let's thank LRH for the FDS tech, it seems, on this occassion, to have worked quite well!
  9. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    In fact what I say as alex is more true than what I say as the person I am in real life. That is the sad truth.

    But take me as you see fit. I am happy as I am. (Both as alex and IRL)
  10. asagai

    asagai Patron Meritorious

    Nice one! :hysterical:

    Mmmm "truth" .... an unreliable commodity as regards "Alex" :D

    So, in real life, become the DM criticiser and communicator with SP's that "Alex" says he is!

    "To thine own self be true" :wink2:
  11. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you!:) The feeling is mutual.

    Another thing I can give Alex credit for is his/her not giving in.
    Yet I'm not so sure about the whole still supporting the church and believing it is corrupt thing. That bothers me some.
  12. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Thank you Asagai. This exchange has been informative.

    L. Ron Hubbard, on "inventing facts," from an April 1955 'HCOB':

    "A datum is an invention which has become agreed upon and solidified... When it is thoroughly agreed upon it becomes, then, a truth.

    "The word 'lie' is simply 'an invention with a bad connotation'... Thus society frowns upon the invention of facts."

    Another notable quote, this from the cocaine-inspired loose-lipped 'PDC' lectures, "It's a trap not being able to prevaricate."

    And then there's the old reliable, 'TR-L', the Training Routine for Lying.

    And, of course, there's the first half of the Fair Game Law, "Trick and lie to."

    These things are as much a part of subject as the "auditing comm cycle," "ARC," and discharging tension by finding "earlier similars" (wording is Korzybski's), and these ingredients, along with others, combine - per the founder's design - to making Scientology.

    In Scientology, lying is only supposed to flow downward, with Hubbard and the hierarchy free to lie to Scientologists, but Scientologists expected to obey, and to open their minds completely to inspection by the organization.

    It shouldn't be surprising that a 'Good Scientologist' is willing to lie to those he sees as below him: the "DBs," "SPs," and the "Wogs."

    It's quite a system: an 'applied philosophy' that make liars out of good people, who - themselves - have been lied to.

    The first step to unraveling this mess is to describe it.

    ESMB is a place where that can happen.

    Thank you ESMB.
  13. asagai

    asagai Patron Meritorious

    Yes, ESMB is a great place for unravelling the mess. Alex has been very illustrative for us in this regard.

    Your description of lying flowing downwards and obediance flowing upwards and opening your mind to inspection from above reminds me exactly of Orwell's 1984, published the year before DMSMH.

    Due to Ron's description of non-scns as "raw meat, wogs, DBs", etc and his description of ex-scns as "SPs and PTs's" it is natural for Scientologists to view nons and exes as "lower" and in fact they are "lower" on the Org Board. Therefore it is natural to flow lying and "acceptable truths" downwards to non-scns and ex-scns, while being obedient and open (submitting to sec checks) from above.

    This is how Ron set up his slave-cult. It runs all the way through his "Org Board". Lying by seniors and openness by juniors. I believe Ron got this model from "1984".

    Your LRH quote on "datum" is so similar to (from 1984) Winston Smith's work in the Ministry of Truth where he was given a data to insert into newspapers and articles so that all trace of the earlier data was erased and no longer existed.
  14. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    thanks Asagai

    Asagai, thank you.
  15. asagai

    asagai Patron Meritorious


    For me if someone is a scientologist it is a very sad situation. I was one, I know what they go through.

    Fortunately there is the option to not be one. And there is repair and recovery and all is well.

    A scientologist can do this anytime he choses! :)

    He can finally be true to himself whenever he wants to be. He doesn't need to play the lier/submitter split personality game that the CofS demands. He can become reliable! :happydance:

    He can choose the Virtues of the Way to Happiness or the PR and abuse of the CofS.
  16. cinamingrl

    cinamingrl Patron Meritorious


    Is Egghead still around. Ask him if his name isn't possibly Kevin. I knew an on-again-off-again musician scient. who had an egghead. He played drums. :nervous:
  17. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    Last time he was here was the 5th of Aug.:confused2:

    I really hope he's trying to figure stuff out.
  18. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Egg - on his face

    Ole "Egg" cracked a while ago on this board - and has not been seen since, cinamingrl. Personally, I doubt that "egg" could play the skinflute, much less the drums. He's probably still in the MAA's space, writing and writing....

    Your art is very nice - you should be able to make money with it, IMHO. Have you worked at it with that in mind? Or, is it just something you like to do? Which is lovely in and of itself. :clap:

    You give off lovely vibes, btw. :yes:

  19. cinamingrl

    cinamingrl Patron Meritorious


    WOw what a nice thing to hear. thanks. First time i've heard that. :blush:
  20. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

    It is true, though...

    Yes, cinamingrl, your art is lovely, whimsical and a touch mystical. You have a calm, direct way about you...for which no english word is available to me! I like your beingness very much, and will look for the right word or words - and when they come; well I'll tell you them! OK? :yes: :thumbsup: