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I Never Have Been Anonymous ...

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Mark A. Baker, Feb 1, 2008.

  1. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    I just signed on the board and suspect that my first post should be announcement of my presence.

    I'm certainly not new to the freezone (Class of '82).

    Several of the ESMB regulars either know me already or know of my posts elsewhere. (Hi, Paul! Long time no comm.) :coolwink:

    Basic Stats: Clear in Co$, OT III in Freezone, Former Mission Staff (HCO), So Cal Area

    So, "Hi" to all.

    Mark A. Baker
  2. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Hey Mark!

    Good to see you here. :)

  3. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    not important
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2012
  4. Colleen K. Peltomaa

    Colleen K. Peltomaa Silver Meritorious Patron

    :runaround: MARK IS HERE!!! :runaround:
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2008
  5. Colleen K. Peltomaa

    Colleen K. Peltomaa Silver Meritorious Patron

    Emma, do you think we should have a smilies contest?
  6. Emma

    Emma Con te partirĂ² Administrator

    What kind of smilie contest?
  7. WrongPlaceRightTime

    WrongPlaceRightTime Patron Meritorious

    what exactly is Freezone?
  8. Fancy

    Fancy Patron Meritorious

    non church Scientologists.

    We don't follow the church and it abuses.

    No RPF. NO SO just free choices and otherisms as well.

  9. Lovesnightsky

    Lovesnightsky Silver Meritorious Patron

    I think that Magoo wins that contest even before it starts. They SPEAK in her entries!
  10. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Good question, WPRT.

    From what I've seen, Freezone is standard scientology without the abuse.

    Granted - I'm not personally into any Scientology at all. But these people, it seems to me, try to take all the good that is in Scientology and leave out the bad.

    I know - tall order!

    But that's what I see them as trying to do.
  11. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    There are two categories on this forum, 1) Freezone, and 2) Independent Field.

    I audited a fair amount after exiting Scientology, and I - or others I know - would never call ourselves "Freezoners."

    To some extent, it's about the meaning of the name, "Freezone," but mostly its about ideas and methods.

    'Standard Tech' Freezone people advocate the "Commodore Hubbard/Xenu Bridge," whereas Independent Field people advocate the basic application of auditing without the Fair Game Law-era, KSW-era, Sea Org-era 'Standard Tech' - The 'Standard Tech' that came into being once Hubbard flipped out and started calling himself 'Source', and then 'Commodore'.

    There's plenty of info in the two sections that cover both these categories.
  12. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    What's In A Name? A Rose By Any Other Name....

    Personally not so sure the "cut" is quite so clear.

    "Standard Tech" people are perhaps a bit more likely to embrace the term "freezone", but there have been plenty of firefights over the years about distinctions among the various groups.

    Some of us "moderates" take the view that "freezone" is a self-selective term. If you consider yourself in the freezone, then you are. If you don't then you are likely an "ex" or "former" scientologist.

    Some groups are open to offshoots such as "metapsychology" or "idenics". Some groups shun others which advocate a different version of the "official" bridge.

    It's pretty much "roll your own". :coolwink:

    My personal take: "standard tech" may be optimal but anything which increases self-knowledge should not be disregarded. Both "scientology" & the "freezone" are bigger than any one viewpoint.

    Mark A. Baker
  13. Colleen K. Peltomaa

    Colleen K. Peltomaa Silver Meritorious Patron

    Best use of Smilies contest.
  14. Colleen K. Peltomaa

    Colleen K. Peltomaa Silver Meritorious Patron

    Yes, she inspired me to use more smilies. Her smilies add a ton of warmth and friendliness to her posts.
  15. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Well, there are two categories/sections on this forum, and judging from the contents of those two sections, there's valid reason for that.

    Fortunately, this discussion has already occurred several times, on ESMB, and is preserved for review for anyone curious.

    From a practical standpoint, one way of categorizing would be to separate the 'What' people from the 'Who' people. The 'What' people are primarily concerned with ideas, while the 'Who' people are primarily concerned with a person, in this case, L. Ron Hubbard.

    It becomes problematic, since the Freezone 'L. Ron Hubbard people' - being Freezone Scientologists, after all - follow some patterns long established in Scientology: They wrap their 'Who-ism' (Personality cultism) in a 'What-ism' (Science, 'All I am trying to get you to do is look," etc.), and tend to not much like it when that's pointed out.

    For a 'L. Ron Hubbard person', for example, that the "Tech" is from Ron is most important, not that it "works," yet "It Works!" will be heralded. That's a "Who' person.

    As for the much heralded slogan, "Deliver what is promised," Hubbard didn't honestly mean that, and it was never a true "senior policy," and I doubt that anyone in the 'Standard Tech Freezone' (except the most naive) believes that it was ever a true senior policy.

    Otherwise, there would be Standard Tech produced Full OTs aplenty. There are not.

    So what really works, again and again?, some things do, mostly at what is called the 'Lower Bridge', but does the "Upper Bridge" produce "Full OTs"?

    Only in PR.

    However, it can produce floating needles, and acceptable Success Stories, which becomes 'Delivering what is promised'.

    Eh. Alright.

    Overall, 'Freezone Scientology' is preferable to 'Scientology Inc. $cientology', for those who still want to take the path to Xenu. And that's something.

    In any event, thank goodness this discussion has already happened on ESMB.
  16. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    The "what" & "who" distinction is appropriate. Many of us never were "who" people, even back in our long lost churchie days of yore.

    As to what Hubbard believed, I don't know never having met the man. Nor do I much care as I consider his beliefs irrelevant to the SUBJECT of scientology.

    As to whether "always deliver" is "true senior policy", many of us hold to it. It was PART of the reason I left the Co$ way back when. It became clear that for whatever reasons church leadership wasn't willing to enforce the only bits of policy that I considered were TRULY LEGITIMATE.

    If that was intended then they were a scam, if that was unintended then they are incompetent AND unwilling to change. Hence they don't desire or deserve support so it was time to depart.

    Many other scientologists had similar views and thus the freezone came to be.

    Begs the question "what is a full OT". Different folks have different views. In my view Hubbard's comments are often hyperbolic and should not be taken as definitive.

    Key questions: what do you want to use scientology for? Why? :coolwink:

    Mark A. Baker
  17. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    If you're going to use it to 'change the world', please find a new planet first. As it is, the 'reality' that Scientology has demonstrated within its 'area of control' has *never* been something valuable, and, in fact, is so deplorable that almost all Scientology 'marketing' is about hiding the actual results of the 'applied religious philosophy' and 'clearing the planet'.

  18. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Really addressing this to Veda.

    Senior policy is admin not tech.

    Deliver what you promise is clearly an important admin policy.

    Those businesses which do not follow this do not last long, and can
    find themselves embroiled in law suits etc. Most dummies might understand this.

    Also Veda, what "fair gaming" is the FZ doing currently?
  19. Roland ami

    Roland ami Patron with Honors

    Welcome Mark

    Nice to see you on this board. I occcasionally show up also, and like you, in person. This one is often pleasant and civilized.

  20. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    I think it's great if people want to study Scn outside CofS and give/receive auditing. The Freezone has assisted many people who wanted to do that.

    I'm not a member of the Freezone but am very supportive of them.

    I don't think the FZ is perfect, by any means, but people aren't perfect and that's just how it is.

    Because it's a grassroots mostly cyber movement, it does well at keeping out of the abuses and greed one sees in CofS.

    Veda's point is a good one- there are people in the FZ who are purists, they go by the book, they don't deviate much from Hubbard's processes and other "tech" as written. I say "much" because, frankly they all change some policies to suit themselves and their students and pcs because some of the policies themselves are innately problematic and were set up to be abusive and power mongering, IMO. So there's ALWAYS some adjusting of policy even among "tech" purists.

    And there are people in the FZ who aren't purists at all. They create their own meters, processes, etc. I think that's great.

    And there are non CofS Scientologists who don't consider themselves to be Freezoners and there are some who have interest in some of Hubbard's ideas and methods but have ceased to describe themselves as any kind of Scientologist, FZ or anything else.

    It's inevitable that any group or movement is going to have spinoffs then spinoffs of spinoffs. People apply their individuality.