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In CoS, why all the cursing?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Never In 99, Jul 15, 2015.

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  1. Never In 99

    Never In 99 New Member

    I was never in, but have followed CoS for decades and have had some close looks at one of the big bases and some top people through various twists of fate. Like nearly all here I have long been deeply suspicious of CoS and am glad to see the truth finally coming out, in so many ways.

    I registered here today to ask one question that I have always wondered about -- what's with all the cursing, and the apparent undercurrent of anger and even violence, on so many different levels, that I so often hear about in connection with this organization and its members?

    Here is one of a thousand examples, an interview with Danny Masterson I read today: At least half of his responses include an F-bomb. I see this over and over again when Scientologists are interviewed, or in transcripts of inside conversations and messages. Is there a lot of anger and shouting within CoS and if so, why? No other "church" would accept this.

    It just seems that in so many inside stories I read about CoS, people are cursing, shouting, abusing one other, shoving each other around. Is it really like that behind closed doors, and why? Does CoS encourage people to express their anger, rather than control it? Is cursing not considered rude within CoS? Can anyone explain?
  2. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    Maybe Tom Cruise and others are mimicking the Ecclesiastical Leader:

    Tom Cruise said:

    "Some people, well, if they don't like Scientology, well, then, fuck you. Really. Fuck you. Period."
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2015
  3. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    It's just one of those weird group phenoms. Some scientologists use "bad" language to make a point and that sort of thing can be contagious when you live inside a bubble.
  4. Billy Blinder

    Billy Blinder Patron with Honors

    I always took all the cursing from the viewpoint, of well, if one achieved the status of a Grade 0 level auditing completion why then one could communicate to anybody about anything and saying swear words wouldn't have a bad effect on another person higher on up the status of Grade 0. This viewpoint is also coupled with if one had done the TR's courses, bullbaiting, why one wouldn't get offended,

    but, then again, using the swears words is out PR from the point of view of always maintain friendly relations with the public.

    And, of course, we have the Chrome Cold Steel viewpoint of Sea Org members instigated by DM as Marty and Mike explained in their blogs awhile ago. That explains the current COS membership attitude as well, as shit rolls downhill, and , of course, totally aligns with Hubbard's always attack, never defend.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2015
  5. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    Because it's fucking awesome!
  6. Kauboi Junkie

    Kauboi Junkie Patron with Honors


    Sorry, I was cussing like a Scientologist. LoL...
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2015
  7. Reasonable

    Reasonable Silver Meritorious Patron

    I think it is because in other "religions" you are told not to curse but Scientologists like to have a "we don't care what others think of us " attitude.

    Other religions don't curse so therefore we will curse.

    See how much FUN Scientology is ...WE CURSE!!!

    Or a "There is no God so who cares if we curse" attitude.

    Or "cursing is just words so who cares if we curse."

    Also, I really think that it makes them feel cool, tough, and not uptight.
  8. Wants2Talk

    Wants2Talk Silver Meritorious Patron

    Because it is a left-handed, satanic path elevating the self to god.
  9. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    There was always a superiority or seniority class attitude thing between different strata of the hierarchy. The denigration was also between Sea Org and non-Sea Org units and between Scientologists and non-dedicated Scientologists & non-Scientologists. It may not have been evident for everyone to observe but if you delved deep enough it became obvious. From my observation something changed around 1980-81. The practice of calling someone on the carpet over relatively trivial things and chewing them out red in the face became somewhat institutionalized. We called this an SRA (Severe Reality Adjustment). I didn't know it at the time but from what I understand now this thoughtful little personnel incentives program was created by none other than our gracious little Pope during his early developmental years under LRH's tutelage at Gold. I believe the embellishments of which you speak became more pronounced leading up to and upon his coronation. It is only natural for the rank and file to want to emulate the singular contribution to Scientology for which the most high can claim sole authorship: The SRA
  10. Billy Blinder

    Billy Blinder Patron with Honors

    Good point, the SRA, forgot about that one. That was just starting to surface shortly after I when got involved in 1987 and then a few years later staff. But, I don't think it's a LRH concept, don't know, do you?
  11. Operating DB

    Operating DB Truman Show Dropout

    Hubbard was very temperamental and was prone to temper tantrums and swore a lot. This filtered down into the strata of the organization. Every aspect of the cult is a reflection of hubbard's shortcomings and he had plenty of them.
  12. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    I believe it is their BT's. Pesky little fuckers.:coolwink:

    They can't help it.

    They have to get up to Oat Tea to audit them off.

    Just Kidding :wink2:
  13. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    The term "SRA" came into use around 1979-1980, maybe even a bit earlier. There are some postings by people who were at Gold and around DM when this first started. DM was often LRH's CMO (Commodore's Messenger Org) MOD (Messenger on Duty) and then oversaw LRH Missions and Special Projects all of which bestowed a tremendous amount of power. The practice of inflicting SRAs under that moniker on staff first filtered down through the CMO from what I observed. Sure, LRH and others Dressed People Down on a whim but the term SRA was new and so was the prevalence and intensity. If you want to split hairs I guess we could say that DM only really gets credit for coming up with the expression itself, its complementary acronym and then ensconcing it as a routine management technique enhanced with his personal brand of expletives.

    We can probably assume it simply evolved out of his heart felt desire to achieve compliance of Command Intention for LRH via his role as favored Lieutenant. The ethics presence, one-upsmanship and status attitude was old hat but honestly, I didn't notice that much foul language before this,.... TR bullbaiting drills notwithstanding. But from what I'm reading now it seems the whole outfit has developed quite the potty mouth under heil Davey.
  14. Xenu's Boyfriend

    Xenu's Boyfriend Silver Meritorious Patron

    I was never in either but my theory is that the swearing is meant to be an indication of verbal violence and complete impenetrability. Like people in Basic Training in the military, it has a militaristic and I would suggest patriarchal aspect to it. What I find fascinating by the accounts that I have read is that women and young people might swear just as much or even more to prove that they are "powerful" and not emotional, like the men. (A 14-year-old girl might have a position where she is swearing like a 40-year-old cab driver, and this is perceived as "powerful". So is being told to have an abortion and not have any feelings about that either.)

    I want to be careful here - I'm not saying that women can't or shouldn't swear, or that they should be "ladylike" - what I mean is that part of the process of the training is to turn someone into a sociopath like Hubbard, to cut off that intuitive relationship between what one feels and what one does. Many people subscribe that to women, but many men have it too.

    Bull Baiting is the beginning of the process of emotional dissociation, until you get to a point where you are impervious, where a woman or man can be in a room full of Scientology babies who are sick or crying, for example, and not feel a maternal instinct. Or to be assigned away from family and see your kids once a week for a few hours and not break down. Or one can disconnect from family, and not feel the trauma of losing people you love.

    My point is, the more you swear, the more you give the outward appearance that you don't give a f***, or that you mean serious business and nobody better f*** with you. It's part of the hysteria in the culture where things get more and more hyper and it is part of the addiction. But in the end, i think Scientology as an ideology is an assault on "womanhood" and "femininity", which is an assault on vulnerability, which explains was Hubbard was such a misogynist. The swearing is a way to say, "I don't have any of those woman-y qualities", in other words, compassion or feelings. This is also why homosexuality is also out 2-D.
  15. Glenda

    Glenda Crusader

    Hello XB,

    Nice to see your words here. I hope you are well and that life is being kind to you. :)

    Thought provoking stuff. I would love to explore these concepts more but there are a few things here that need my attention (lost one of my socks and got to find it! Kidding). Maybe later, depending on the outcome of my sock-finding-mission, I will write one of my big 10 paragraph rants about some of the points you raise above.

    Militaristic? Yes. Patriarchal? Yes. An assault on femininity? Yes. The swearing, imo, is way more connected to the heart of the ugly beast than just being a mere cultural meme.

    p.s. Did I swear a lot when I was cultie? Oh yeah. Like a sleep deprived long distance truck driver.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2015
  16. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    Firstly you have to give up the idea that it is a church or a religion. This is a cult that promotes self-improvement but then goes nuts as you get further into it.

    The whole ethos is to take over the world - "Clear the planet" - and nothing is allowed to get in their way.

    Scientologists believe that only scientology can save mankind and that anyone who doesn't want to become a scientologist is obviously letting their reactive mind control them because if they were being rational then they would obviously want to become scientologists.

    Therefore they are trained to override people's objections. "Being reasonable" is a very bad thing in scientology. You have to be completely unreasonable and override any counter-intention in order to get things done.

    With this in mind they are trained to have "intention". Shouting at an ashtray to get it to stand up is one drill they use to cultivate "intention".

    Bearing all of this in mind, swearing is just another way of trying to force your will on someone else, which is what they are all about.
  17. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    The preceding posts cover this topic very well! However, one point that no one has mentioned yet may be the fact that Hubbard served in the U.S. Navy. I believe that in the U.S. Military and probably in the militaries of other nations, there is a lot of swearing taking place. In particular, this may have been true for the Navy even more so than the other branches of military service. There is even a saying, "He swore like a drunken sailor." Seamen, at sea, are very cramped for space. They sleep in bunks stacked one upon another, they move through narrow passage ways, shower in communal showers, eat in mess halls and and almost never have any privacy.

    People who are crowded in like that tend to be edgy and are prone to swearing. When someone goofs up, in crowded circumstances, there is a tendency for a seaman to swear at them. Hubbard, as a junior Naval officer in the U.S. Navy was no exception to this rule. I don't know what things were like before he created the Sea Org, but once it was created, Hubbard swore a lot, especially when people screwed up. The CMO's delivered Hubbard's swear messages to other staff and since everyone in the S.O. was trying to emulate Hubbard, S.O. members began swearing and eventually this trait showed up in non S.O. orgs as well.

    DM inherited this practice from LRH and then expanded it with SRA and so forth.
  18. prosecco

    prosecco Patron Meritorious

    I take your point about the military, however in my experience, those in the military knew that it was unacceptable to swear, for instance in front of children. There was an, 'off,' button. It's not to say that in their own barracks they didn't swear, but there was an understanding that in public, one was representing their country, or troop etc, so there is such a military charge of, 'bringing disrepute.'

    As far as swearing in the Sea Org, my view is that much of management was teenagers, or those whose emotional development sort of stopped around teenage years. It's a fairly typical that at times of emotional crisis, one can stop developing or has arrested development. So, that's the sort of standard of manners you get in the Sea Org, i.e. pegged around the standard of a typical teenager.

    The only times you ever see a Sea Org member being polite is when they either want money or want to recruit you.
  19. AngeloV

    AngeloV Gold Meritorious Patron

    Swearing is a key indicator that you are in the presence of a 'homo novus'.

    When one achieves that rare status, it is important to display 'Tone 40' in all conversations.

    So don't fret if you hear "You are a counter intentioned c**k sucker!" It's just the way homo novus assert tone 40 commands. Consider yourself lucky because you are in the presence of greatness.
  20. Never In 99

    Never In 99 New Member

    Wow, so many interesting and insightful replies to my question. This had been on my mind for a long time and it seemed so weird, I wondered if my never-in conclusion that CoS culture included a whole lot of swearing might be a false impression. I guess it wasn't.

    I have to say though that even after reading the great explanations, it still seems incredibly strange to me, but then practically everything else about them does, too. I can't imagine myself ever becoming involved with CoS, even at my most vulnerable but even if I had, the cursing culture would have been a huge turnoff. I'm not a prude and throw out F-bombs once in a while myself, but seeing "institutional cursing" in an organization that wanted my money and my time would raise big questions. Speaking that way to people, even if feeling angry, is not something I aspire to.

    And from a PR aspect, it seems very strange. The example I posted, the Danny Masterson interview (who by the way, I hadn't heard of until yesterday) would also be a big negative to me if I was interested in CoS. Seeing members talk that way (including better known ones like Kirstie Alley) is one more thing that makes CoS look bad to the public. So I'm surprised that CoS doesn't ask their members to cool it a bit when making public statements, since they are so publicity conscious. But then, even their official PR statements tend to be pretty hostile, like the stuff from Karin Puow and the recent reaction to Leah Remini's comments:

    "It comes as no surprise that someone as self-absorbed as Leah Remini with an insatiable craving for attention would exploit her former religion as a publicity stunt in a pathetic attempt to get ratings for her cable show and seem relevant again."

    I mean, what are these people thinking? If some non-Scientologist is on the fence about this, the effect of a comment like that will be the opposite of what CoS is aiming for. They just make themselves look bad. It sounds like a North Korean press release. I don't understand how they can misjudge the impact of statements like this so grossly, and continue to do it over and over again. But that's another discussion, I guess.

    (BTW ThetanExterior, I never had the idea that Cos was either a church or a religion. In my original post, I should have put the word church in quotes...)
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015