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In CoS, why all the cursing?

OutToe83

Patron with Honors
(Snipped)
I'm reminded of an old, old Gunsmoke episode; some town marshal introduces himself to Matt Dillon who replies, "I'm a U.S. Marshall". Like that makes him superior. Like if he were to give the town marshall an order, he would expect it to be obeyed.

There's supposed to be some sort of military training exercise by the U.S. Army in Texas. Texans are suspicious and are calling out the State Guard to prevent some kind of preemptive power grab. (I really don't know much about this. Can anyone supply any details?) Is the state guard specifically being told to ignore any requests by U.S. soldiers? It could be the biggest U.S. vs. Texas action since the aborted invasion of New Mexico.

Helena

This is the question I attempted to answer. Notice the context of the question, which as I understood it, was of who had authority over the state guards, if conflicting orders were given. I attempted, perhaps poorly, to explain that there was a definite chain of command and all military personal are trained to know whose orders to follow in such a situation: It isn't always the highest rank.


As I recall, the "State Guard" is actually the state's National Guard. They are part of the US Military. Regular and National Guard trained together when I was in the military, it's the same training. I'm not exactly sure how the Governor fits into the chain of command, but I'm certain the President (POTUS) outranks him.

There is a clear Chain of Command in the US Military Services and every soldier/sailor/airman is required to know his own particular chain, from his squad leader to POTUS. Unlike the Co$, the chain of command is clear, and a colonel from the US Regular Army in a Texas town can't override a National Guard sergeant's orders to a private. I.e., the private follows his sergeant's instructions over the colonel's, if the sergeant is in his chain of command and the colonel isn't.

Looking over my post, I can see that, although I did phrase my answer in terms of a conflict of orders, I didn't really emphasize that it applied only to a conflict; and not necessarily to following lawful orders of superior rank outside the chain of command.


Each State Governor has control over his/her National Guard units within their respective states. When said units are called on for National Service such as war, they are then Federalized Units, meaning they then answer to the POTUS.
Thank you for the info. In addition to POTUS, there are several federal echelons in their chain of command when they're federalized.


Rank is Rank in the Service. If a Colonel or Sergeant Major tells you to do something, you do it, provided it's a lawful order. A superior doesn't have to be in your chain of command to issue an order. Go tell a Sergeant First Class you're NOT obeying his order because he's not in your chain of command and see how fast he puts a world of hurt on you. I dare you. [[Red highlight mine]]

This is true. What I said before is also true. I attempted to give a quick answer concerning a conflict of orders from different chains of command. Telling HH this ^^ without explaining how chain of command works, could be confusing and misleading. Most civilians don't know that an officer telling a lower rank outside his chain of command to disregard orders within that lower rank's chain of command is an unlawful order. It's not intuitive for a civilian like it is for a soldier (or, in my case, a vet).

We had specific drills for this in Basic Training. Our barracks always had one of us on guard at the door, with instructions (from our sergeant) to let only members of our flight (Air Force equivalent of platoon) in and out. Sometimes a lieutenant or captain from a different flight would show up at 3-4am, when the sergeant wasn't there, and order the airman to let him in. This was usually an officer within our squadron (equivalent to army company) but commanding a different flight and therefore not in our flight's chain of command. The officer could be quite insistent, even threatening, but if the quaking airman let him in, he (the airman) would be in deep doo-doo.

That same captain could order us to, say, pick dandelions out of a lawn, as long as he wasn't taking us off our assigned posts (which would be a conflict of orders, and therefore not a lawful order). If he gave us a lawful order without going through our chain of command, we did what we were told, and later reported it up the chain of command. I never saw a conflict of orders other than those training exercises. Officers and non-coms generally stay within their chain of command.



'The Oath of Enlistment http://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2015/05/26/u-s-militarys-oath-of-enlistment/

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Military discipline and effectiveness is built on the foundation of obedience to orders. Recruits are taught to obey, immediately and without question, orders from their superiors, right from day-one of boot camp.

Military members who fail to obey the lawful orders of their superiors risk serious consequences”

Article 90 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) makes it a crime for a military member to WILLFULLY disobey a superior commissioned officer. In fact, under Article 90, during times of war, a military member who willfully disobeys a superior commissioned officer can be sentenced to death.
Article 91 makes it a crime to WILLFULLY disobey a superior Noncommissioned or Warrant Officer.
Article 92 makes it a crime to disobey any lawful order (the disobedience does not have to be “willful” under this article)."
>snip<

Thank you for the extra information for our civilian readers; but again, in the context of the original question it can be misleading to those who haven't been trained in following their chain of command.
 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
I'm sorry...you're a great guy...but, you're wrong.:no:

WTF do you know about "hilarity"? :confused2:

You need to read my twelve--6,000+/- word Posts each of which "prove" you wrong--about the origins, history and Scn pertinent usage of "Hilarity" before you can even utter one cogent fucking comment about any of my Posts.. :melodramatic:

WTF do you think you are? :ohmy:

I'm the F'n smartest guy on the Board and have the F'n "Stats" to prove it. :hysterical:

Lakey ? That you honey ?
 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
If you laughed why would you say that you probably should have? You thought something was funny and laughed, nothing wrong there that I can see.

Scientology is an extraordinarily complicated self help scheme with a vast amount of writings done by Hubbard. Buddha said, "if it's not true for you, it's not true." Hubbard states that same principle, usually in his intro lectures or beginning books and then, does not allow that tenet to be practiced. The Tao says, the cycle of this universe is birth, growth, decay and death." Hubbard writes tomes upon tomes and gives lecture upon lecture discussing that simple observation. Jews run much of their religion on just 10 simple commandments, Christians accept those same commandments and enter in the concepts of sin, love and forgiveness.

Hubbard doesn't use the word sin but uses the concept of the overt act, it's motivator and the related withholds, all on 4 flows. Probably 10 times more source material has been written on just O/W theory in scientology than has been written on all of Judaism and Christianity combined

Scientology's structure is so wordy and complex and often various tracts contradict one another. Because of all this, attempts to deconstruct various aspects of the subject can't be described in just a few short sentences or paragraphs. To make a case for or against anything in scientology, usually a lot of verbiage has to be used and also anecdotes and examples are often required. That's just the way it is.

The subject just doesn't lend itself to a lot of one liners. The best thing I've seen to make relevant comments on scientology without using a lot of words are various video clips on movies and or songs. Sometimes those convey a thought better and clearer than writing tons of verbiage. Those are really great but short one liners might be funny but really don't usually get to the points they need to address.

With me, I like to write anecdotes, it improves my skills as a writer and helps me to understand the issues better in the process. Writing a lot of verbiage, however, does make one a lot of enemies, at least on ESMB. This is more than offset by occasionally making a few friends. Anyway, Panda, my advice is to keep laughing if something amuses you:

Here is something really funny which an old friend of mine from high school days, just sent me: This is actually one of the funniest things which I have ever seen. A picture of the old man doing his work out and the beautiful young women doing her workout are shown but I couldn't get them to print here but here are the words:

Advice for an Old Guy


A 78-year old man was working out at the gym with his trainer
when a young, beautiful woman in great shape walked past them.

The old man said to his trainer, “What machine should I use to impress that girl over there?”

The trainer looked him over and said, “I would recommend the ATM out in the lobby.”


Lakey
"Brevity is the soul of wit " Voltaire.

" If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough " Albert Einstein

That earns the above verbose post a fat fucking flunk.

Now fuck this fucking fucked shit these fuckers call that fucking all fucked up scientology shit, it was fucked from the fucking gitgo by that fucking old fucked fucking fuck faced fucker !

Fuck all this fucking profanity!
 

Little David

Gold Meritorious Patron
If you laughed why would you say that you probably should have? You thought something was funny and laughed, nothing wrong there that I can see.

Scientology is an extraordinarily complicated self help scheme with a vast amount of writings done by Hubbard. Buddha said, "if it's not true for you, it's not true." Hubbard states that same principle, usually in his intro lectures or beginning books and then, does not allow that tenet to be practiced. The Tao says, the cycle of this universe is birth, growth, decay and death." Hubbard writes tomes upon tomes and gives lecture upon lecture discussing that simple observation. Jews run much of their religion on just 10 simple commandments, Christians accept those same commandments and enter in the concepts of sin, love and forgiveness.

Hubbard doesn't use the word sin but uses the concept of the overt act, it's motivator and the related withholds, all on 4 flows. Probably 10 times more source material has been written on just O/W theory in scientology than has been written on all of Judaism and Christianity combined

Scientology's structure is so wordy and complex and often various tracts contradict one another. Because of all this, attempts to deconstruct various aspects of the subject can't be described in just a few short sentences or paragraphs. To make a case for or against anything in scientology, usually a lot of verbiage has to be used and also anecdotes and examples are often required. That's just the way it is.

The subject just doesn't lend itself to a lot of one liners. The best thing I've seen to make relevant comments on scientology without using a lot of words are various video clips on movies and or songs. Sometimes those convey a thought better and clearer than writing tons of verbiage. Those are really great but short one liners might be funny but really don't usually get to the points they need to address.

With me, I like to write anecdotes, it improves my skills as a writer and helps me to understand the issues better in the process. Writing a lot of verbiage, however, does make one a lot of enemies, at least on ESMB. This is more than offset by occasionally making a few friends. Anyway, Panda, my advice is to keep laughing if something amuses you:

Here is something really funny which an old friend of mine from high school days, just sent me: This is actually one of the funniest things which I have ever seen. A picture of the old man doing his work out and the beautiful young women doing her workout are shown but I couldn't get them to print here but here are the words:

Advice for an Old Guy


A 78-year old man was working out at the gym with his trainer
when a young, beautiful woman in great shape walked past them.

The old man said to his trainer, “What machine should I use to impress that girl over there?”

The trainer looked him over and said, “I would recommend the ATM out in the lobby.”


Lakey
Fuckin EH?
 
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Billy Blinder

Patron with Honors
Scientology is an extraordinarily complicated self help scheme with a vast amount of writings done by Hubbard. Buddha said, "if it's not true for you, it's not true." Hubbard states that same principle, usually in his intro lectures or beginning books and then, does not allow that tenet to be practiced. The Tao says, the cycle of this universe is birth, growth, decay and death." Hubbard writes tomes upon tomes and gives lecture upon lecture discussing that simple observation. Jews run much of their religion on just 10 simple commandments, Christians accept those same commandments and enter in the concepts of sin, love and forgiveness.

Hubbard doesn't use the word sin but uses the concept of the overt act, it's motivator and the related withholds, all on 4 flows. Probably 10 times more source material has been written on just O/W theory in scientology than has been written on all of Judaism and Christianity combined

Scientology's structure is so wordy and complex and often various tracts contradict one another. Because of all this, attempts to deconstruct various aspects of the subject can't be described in just a few short sentences or paragraphs. To make a case for or against anything in scientology, usually a lot of verbiage has to be used and also anecdotes and examples are often required. That's just the way it is.

I understand your post. However,

As far as self-help, I'm not sure what you mean by that as far as dianetics & scientology are concerned. Even in the beginning, if one read dianetics back in 1950, there is no self help, one would need to recruit another person to read that book, and co-audit to the sublime "clear", and, of course, one needs a whole organization, structure, to achieve the sublime "OT".

Hubbard being wordy. Well, I believe he said there is no money in writing for a penny a word, when he was writing pulp fiction.

But, there certainly is money in writting for a penny a word to a captive audience, and selling to them new discoveries, etc. And I mean "captive" literally per this definition:

[COLOR=#1A0DAB !important]Captive | Define Captive at Dictionary.com[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#006621 !important]dictionary.reference.com/browse/captive[/COLOR]

a person who is enslaved or dominated; slave: He is the [COLOR=#DD4B39 !important]captive of his own fears. adjective. 3. made or held prisoner, especially in war: [COLOR=#DD4B39 !important]captive[/COLOR] troops. 4. kept in ...[/COLOR]


Getting and gaining a captive audience is marketing & PR, and the DM has certainly capitalized on that, although his power of having people listen to him and/or Hubbard is diminishing.

The only thing you can be upbraided for is "no results".

In the immortal words of Jason Beghe - "Show me a muther fucking "clear"".
 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
I understand your post. However,

As far as self-help, I'm not sure what you mean by that as far as dianetics & scientology are concerned. Even in the beginning, if one read dianetics back in 1950, there is no self help, one would need to recruit another person to read that book, and co-audit to the sublime "clear", and, of course, one needs a whole organization, structure, to achieve the sublime "OT".

Hubbard being wordy. Well, I believe he said there is no money in writing for a penny a word, when he was writing pulp fiction.

But, there certainly is money in writting for a penny a word to a captive audience, and selling to them new discoveries, etc. And I mean "captive" literally per this definition:

[COLOR=#1A0DAB !important]Captive | Define Captive at Dictionary.com[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#006621 !important]dictionary.reference.com/browse/captive[/COLOR]

a person who is enslaved or dominated; slave: He is the [COLOR=#DD4B39 !important]captive of his own fears. adjective. 3. made or held prisoner, especially in war: [COLOR=#DD4B39 !important]captive[/COLOR] troops. 4. kept in ...[/COLOR]


Getting and gaining a captive audience is marketing & PR, and the DM has certainly capitalized on that, although his power of having people listen to him and/or Hubbard is diminishing.

The only thing you can be upbraided for is "no results".

In the immortal words of Jason Beghe - "Show me a muther fucking "clear"".

True, but we got that lkwdblds one here who is stuck in that cult speak even all these years later.

If ESMB were a herd, that one'd be culled.

Know what I mean.
 
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Free Being Me

Crusader
Fuckin EH?
tiBiqBO.gif


:giggle:
 

Billy Blinder

Patron with Honors
True, but we got that lkwdblds one here who is stuck in that cult speak even all these years later.

If ESMB were a herd, that one'd be culled.

Know what I mean.

I don't mind the cult speak, Gizmo. It's actually one of the ways I had to decipher when I first landed on ESMB to determine who was an actual ex-member and who was just a wog "critic" during my de-PTSing from the COS, LOL. If somebody here spoke some of the words, I could determine they were once involved in scientology. Truthfully I'm pretty involved with non members all my life, so it ain't a problem for me.

However, onto a new direction. I read today the affidavit of Scott Mayer over at Arnie Lerma's site, never read it before:

Here's the link:

http://www.lermanet.com/cos/scottm.html

After reading that today, I googled search Scott Mayer Scientology, and found this link:

http://www.lermanet.com/scottmayer/

In reading the link, I decided to read the Scott Mayer ARS Literati Winner - Scott won a $10,000 award from Robert Minton's Lisa McPherson Trust for this article :

http://www.lermanet2.com/exit/scottmayer.htm

So I read that link today as well. This wasn't planned by me, but I wish to share. At the very end of Scott's 10,000 essay on scientology he explains in his opinion the trap of the Bridge to Total Freedom & scientology, and actually goes over a Captive Audience and Fear, two things I myself have stumbled upon being involved & researched from other sources.
Here is a snip of the ending:

"The first three levels of the “Bridge†actually create a self-imposed ARC with

Scientology.
The levels are designed to create affinity through agreement and

communication. There is absolutely no doubt that the Communication Course

increases a person’s ability to communicate. As a Sea Organization

Missionaire, I always made a ton of money for Hubbard by running a really tough

communications course. People would come away from those courses feeling as

though they were on top of the world. Their ability to communicate was greatly

enhanced. However, what they didn’t realize was that their ability to

communicate with Scientologists was what was enhanced.
"

As I highlight in red, that makes sense to me, as that is a Captive Audience. What can I say, it's just how I connect dots.

As a side note, I'd say ESMB is a captive audience as well, we are ex members, and I do welcome non ex members as well. As Face would say, all people who post here add to the mosaic of scientology or something like that.
 
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afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I don't mind the cult speak, Gizmo. It's actually one of the ways I had to decipher when I first landed on ESMB to determine who was an actual ex-member and who was just a wog "critic" during my de-PTSing from the COS, LOL. If somebody here spoke some of the words, I could determine they were once involved in scientology. Truthfully I'm pretty involved with non members all my life, so it ain't a problem for me.

However, onto a new direction. I read today the affidavit of Scott Mayer over at Arnie Lerma's site, never read it before:

Here's the link:

http://www.lermanet.com/cos/scottm.html

After reading that today, I googled search Scott Mayer Scientology, and found this link:

http://www.lermanet.com/scottmayer/

In reading the link, I decided to read the Scott Mayer ARS Literati Winner - Scott won a $10,000 award from Robert Minton's Lisa McPherson Trust for this article :

http://www.lermanet2.com/exit/scottmayer.htm

So I read that link today as well. This wasn't planned by me, but I wish to share. At the very end of Scott's 10,000 essay on scientology he explains in his opinion the trap of the Bridge to Total Freedom & scientology, and actually goes over a Captive Audience and Fear, two things I myself have stumbled upon being involved & researched from other sources.
Here is a snip of the ending:

"The first three levels of the “Bridge†actually create a self-imposed ARC with

Scientology.
The levels are designed to create affinity through agreement and

communication. There is absolutely no doubt that the Communication Course

increases a person’s ability to communicate. As a Sea Organization

Missionaire, I always made a ton of money for Hubbard by running a really tough

communications course. People would come away from those courses feeling as

though they were on top of the world. Their ability to communicate was greatly

enhanced. However, what they didn’t realize was that their ability to

communicate with Scientologists was what was enhanced.
"

As I highlight in red, that makes sense to me, as that is a Captive Audience. What can I say, it's just how I connect dots.

As a side note, I'd say ESMB is a captive audience as well, we are ex members, and I do welcome non ex members as well. As Face would say, all people who post here add to the mosaic of scientology or something like that..

Yep! :thumbsup: Been sayin' that for years here. :yes: Sooo glad you came here, are one of Us and adding to the Mosaic. :clap: The "Picture, Colors, Hues and Design" is FAR from finished and would never be complete without you casting down and placing your Tiles. :coolwink:

Face:)

PS: Appreciate your remembering and paying attention to what little I've had to say.:blush:
 
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Free Being Me

Crusader
Yep! :thumbsup: Been sayin' that for years here. :yes: Sooo glad you came here, are one of Us and adding to the Mosaic. :clap: The "Picture, Colors, Hues and Design" is FAR from finished and would never by complete without you casting down and placing your Tiles. :coolwink:

Face:)

PS: Appreciate your remembering and paying attention to what little I've had to say.:blush:

Pssst, Face. I guess now would be an opportune time letting you know all your posts are being engraved on metal plates stashed away in a remote desert locale for posterity. :biggrin:
 

SPsince83

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yep! :thumbsup: Been sayin' that for years here. :yes: Sooo glad you came here, are one of Us and adding to the Mosaic. :clap: The "Picture, Colors, Hues and Design" is FAR from finished and would never by complete without you casting down and placing your Tiles. :coolwink:

Face:)

PS: Appreciate your remembering and paying attention to what little I've had to say.:blush:

Did you say something?:megaphone::shrug:
 
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