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In defence of Hubbard

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Balthasar, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. Balthasar

    Balthasar Patron Meritorious

    Why do Exes hate Hubbard?

    For my standards or what I am used to, I consider Hubbard still a decent guy. Not much wrong with him really. It keeps on surprising me why Exes making fuss about Hubbard's shortcomings while ignoring their own.

    Or could it be that Exes have no personal shortcomings, being perfect parents, good daughters and sons, never took government handouts or pretended to be sick when they weren't, never lied in their CV's, always stood up to their principles based on their own high ethical values?

    Please let me know what are your thoughts about it?
  2. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Most exes I know didn't start of a lifelong scam cult thingy that destroyed more peoples life then it helped.

    Most exes I know didn't record the song - "Thank you for listening, I write just for you..."

    Most exes I know didn't have to live half their lives on international waters afraid of being sent to prison for the crimes committed.

    Do I need to go on?
  3. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    You're absolutely right Balthasar.

    We're all very ungrateful.

    Three cheers for tubs hubbard.

  4. iHateDuplicity

    iHateDuplicity Patron with Honors

    You are kidding, right?

    So according to you, because I haven't led a perfect life, I should leave Hubbard alone. I mean, after all, why should I bear any ill will towards a bigamist, plagiarist, fraud who conned me into wasting over 25 years of my life selling his clap trap lies? Why should it bother me that I actually worked for and unknowingly helped an organization that has a covert intelligence branch which specializes in ripping apart families and destroying people's lives when they question any part of the con man's operation? What problem could I possibly have with finding out that the "super confidential" (and super expensive) "OT levels" which I'd been basing all my hopes and dreams on are in fact nothing but delusional and evaluative pipe dreams which do not deliver any lasting spiritual gains and can, in fact, be extremely damaging in themselves?

    I don't know. I guess I better go look in a mirror and figure out what's wrong with me. Clearly I'm way off base.
  5. clamicide

    clamicide Gold Meritorious Patron

    Huh. I just woke up at a weird hour to find this. Too tired to go through the OP's other posts to see the mindset to know if it's a serious post. uh, but if it is? Well, one thing is... I admit to my shortcomings and have tried to fix things when I've fucked them up and had been an idiot. Hubbard--not so much, or should I say NOT AT ALL. Yeah.

    And as delicious as the idea might appear when I'm feeling particularly evil, I have never even started to attempt any sort of movement to attempt to make people into my minions and smash my name into the annals of history through a vicious campaign of thought reform. Yeah, I have this crazy thing you might label as a 'conscience' that stops me from doing that sort of thing.

    So, call me a jerk for abhorring evil.:coolwink: Also, that whole throwing kids into chain lockers and such really didn't help in my assessment of the guy.

    20+ years of my life in the cult, and I admit my shortcomings. It's why, when Div 6 Scios now come up to get me into the local org, I let them know I'm Clear and a classed auditor and I was completely wrong to fall for the whole thing. I'm not that effective at times, because most times it happens that I just had recently been thinking about my kid in the SO who has disconnected from me (yeah, why wouldn't I LOVE Ron?). Oh yeah... I also never forbid people from speaking to others and threatened them with the loss of their entire eternity if they did.

    Yep, I fucked up by being in Scio, and I let the Div 6ers out on the street know it.

    This post might off as angry, but I'm actually in a great mood, except for the fact that I really need to go back to sleep.:)
  6. Out-Ethics

    Out-Ethics Patron Meritorious

  7. clamicide

    clamicide Gold Meritorious Patron


    I must have been in one of my non-posting periods, but can anyone inform me if the OP is a Hubbard supporter or someone who is just looking for more !#@$ on the guy?

    If they are a Hubbard supporter, this thread is an idiotic move--and really is just an invitation to bring out all the ammo against the Hub. Just curious. If they are a Hub-fan, it really shows that Scio does not promote critical thinking, because that OP is not going to promote Hub--just freaking bring more anti-Hub stuff out.
  8. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    My thoughts at this point (after reading your post) are to invoke POE'S LAW.
  9. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    I guess that (in bold ) says it all, lol
  10. clamicide

    clamicide Gold Meritorious Patron

    Nice. I missed that. Thank you. I think I'd like to retract my post, but perhaps lurkers questioning might have also missed it and get something out of what I said.
  11. hpm1999

    hpm1999 Patron with Honors

    Well lets be sure we ask everyone the following questions to make SURE that we set the table level- and no I Don't buy into the idea that all sins are equal:yes:. So if you can ANSWER YES to any ONE of the following questions you are close to being equal to L R Hubbard:

    1. Have you ever conspired to plant agents into a lawful government in order to steal information and use such information to intimidate and extort lawful agents of such government? Have you ever been named as an unindicted co conspirator for what was termed the largest infiltration of US government agencies ever?

    2.Have you ever stolen checks and pled guilty to such ? Have you pled guilty to being a thief in court?

    3.Have you every claimed to be a "CE (Civil Engineer) a Nuclear Physicist, and possess (a valid) PHd" and to have been educated in "advanced physics" with the truth being that you flunked out of university?

    4. Have you ever claimed to have visited the planet Venus and have "Almost been run down by a freight train"?

    5. Did you ever claim to have participated in the "blood brother"rites of the Black Feet Indian Tribe as a youth- when the truth was the Black Feet Indian Reservation was hundreds of miles from where you grew up and never mind the fact that this tribe never participated in such a ritual?

    6. Have you ever claimed to be a "Wounded & decorated War Hero" and to "have been the first American Service man to have been wounded in the Pacific War" when the truth is- other than dropping depth bombs on magnetized rocks and firing on land owned by a neutral country you never saw action?

    7. Did you ever write an official policy for a religion (???) that stated ""Show me any person who is critical of us and I’ll show you crimes and intended crimes that would stand a magistrate’s hair on end."? {- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Bulletin, 4 April 1965}

    8. As a leader of a religion did you ever write a book that stated "There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow."???{- L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 170}

    9. Did you ever take an religion that you organized to the high seas so that you could avoid prosecution for tax evasion? Whilst at sea did you employ teen age girls some of whom were younger than 16 as your personal messenger(s) and servant(s)? Did you every sentence volunteers for your religion to weeks confinement in a ships locker- some of those confined being younger than twelve years of age. Did you force older subordinates to push peanuts around the deck of said ship until their nose were bloody for minor infractions? Did you force workers, under threat of loss of status in your religion, to jump four stories from a ship into the sea with their hands and arms bound - and have them hauled by rope back onto the ship?

    10. Did you ever develop a theory to heal Mental Problems, publish it as a book, claim to have completed controlled studies but never produced a SINGLE study? And when scientists did ATTEMPT to replicate your claims (in your book) about the "spectacular results" in a controlled study did their study show that your claims were rubbish?

    I could list at least a hundred such question- each more insidious and each backed by at least two to three references but I tire.:melodramatic:
  12. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    Wonderful effort!

    And it's even worse than you painted it:

    Re. #2 You forgot about stealing the boats (and the girlfriend) from Jack Parsons. Not that Jack was an upstanding citizen himself, but the law is the law. Especially the part about grand larceny.

    Re. #3 You forgot about the part in Dianetics where he also claims to have attended Princeton, instead of attending a military government school that was housed on the Princeton campus.

    Re. #6 You forgot the part about crying to the VA about his medical disability while claiming to his admirers that he'd cured himself.

    And you left out the wife beating. And the Satanic rituals

    This man was not colorful. He was evil.
  13. hpm1999

    hpm1999 Patron with Honors

    Ahhhh yes... So LITTLE time and SO MUCH HUBBARD:hattip:
  14. anonomog

    anonomog Gold Meritorious Patron

    Great listing btw, but I think it would take years to list it all.

    I tried to get some interest on posting about Hubbard's good points. He must have had some good points surely? ...And..... *crickets*.

    Apart from being thanked as Man's best friend and the glories of wondrous tech that has so utterly ruined so many people's lives, I have yet to read about him being kind, empathetic, compassionate to anyone. He tells us how wonderful he is but there is a HUGE lack of that from people around him. It doesn't have to be heroic, just the simple kindness one would expect from a normal man.

    Did he do or say anything in his 70 odd years that wasn't entirely self serving?

    I doubt I would change my opinion of him as a disgrace of a human being, but it would be interesting to hear.
  15. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    Let me rip you one. How about somebody who had to wash Hubbards feet when she was ten having to miss her parents.

  16. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    He was a witty and fantastic storyteller in person, from all accounts.

    Too bad that didn't transfer to the written page.
  17. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Obviously, you did not know El Ron, IRL. :no:

  18. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    OK I admit it, I had failings as a parent, and as a relative, I have taken from my government what was my due, I know I should have refused it, I have called my boss and put on a croaky voice cough and had time off so that I could rest when I should have been working, I pretended on my CV that I'd not been in the COS, yes, unlike Hubbard I admit it. Hubbard could never admit his failings, it was always someone else.

    My misdeeds though are of less magnitude.
  19. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    A "decent guy"? :hysterical:

    I don't "hate" Hubbard. I don't "hate" anything. I do though feel compassion for those who have been misled, deceived, manipulated and abused by Hubbard through his detailed creation - the Church of Scientology.

    Please, don't try to equate valid and honest criticism of Hubbard and Scientology with "hate". THAT is a gimmick (used by OSA and other Scientology dupes).

    It is a matter of MAGNITUDE.

    Hubbard created a mind control cult that was carefully deigned to TRICK people into following a "path to freedom" when actually it was a path to the opposite. And, along the way Hubbard took away a great deal of these people's money, time, energy, health, well-being, sanity, and more.

    Hubbard baited people with the lofty promises of "help" and "spiritual freedom", while delivering quite the opposite.

    Not much wrong with him really? REALLY? Are you serious?


    Note: What sort of "decent" guy sets up plans to entrap innocent people in crimes that they never committed? What type of "decent guy" tries to get a sane person committed to an institution? Hubbard planned and executed that with Paulette Cooper. And, that was only ONE instance out of many. I personally don't know anybody who systematically has tried to DESTROY the life of another person, either intentionally or otherwise. Hubbard did - more than once. He happily lied and committed crimes to HURT others who were guilty ONLY of criticizing HIM and Scientology. Geez, he even wrote policies and orders to ensure that such nasty behavior continued when he was gone, by the actions of the dedicated Scientology staff members.
  20. Balthasar

    Balthasar Patron Meritorious

    I must give you credit here because it was actually one of your last posts on another thread which gave me the incentive to start this thread. It was one of where you go on about "hisself" doing this and that. It's a recent post from a couple of days ago and I am not searching for it because I am sure you remember.

    Anyway, I found it odd that a guy (YOU to avoid any doubt) who worked directly under "hisself" keeps on nattering and denigrating Hubbard while he apparently didn't have the balls to do so while he still had the opportunity.

    There was Hubbard right in front of you! It appears you were shitting in your pants 40+ years ago but fortunately meanwhile found your back bone. It's easier now where he is dead, isn't it?