Is Alanzo the new Bernie?

Discussion in 'Leaving Scientology' started by Veda, Aug 12, 2019.

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  1. Veda

    Veda Sponsor


    (It's possible that no one will see this as Alanzo is busy baiting ESMB at this time. No doubt Alanzo is a master baiter, nonetheless...)

    If anyone can find the old Bernie.cncfamily.com site, that's the template that Alanzo is copying.

    Either it's down, or I'm prohibited from entering, so I can't link to it to show anyone.​

    Bernie was a faux "reasonable critic of Scientology" who criticized critics of Scientology. The Bernie site is out of date and old. The purpose of Bernie was to nullify critics of Miscavige Scientology (Scientology Inc./the Cult), and to nullify criticisms of Miscavige Scientology (Scientology Inc./the Cult.), while also appearing to be a critic of Scientology.

    For those who were non fanatical critics this was annoying as Bernie was pretending to be a non fanatical critic. He created confusion.

    Am not saying that Alanzo is working for Scientology Inc./the Cult, but his "talking points" are straight out of the Bernie playbook.


    There were certain main "buttons," such as the words "cult" and the word "brainwashing," that needed to be discredited into oblivion. That, and whoever was seen as the main critic, or critics, of Scientology Inc./the Cult at the time.

    These same talking points can be found in Scientology Inc.'s Freedom magazine and parroted by Scientology Inc.'s paid "religious experts."

    Very unnatural and strange.

    If someone is interested at all in Scientology, for any reason, it's not too outrageous that someone might be mildly curious about its recurring patterns.
     
  2. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    If you were saying does he act like Bernie Sanders I would have been right on board with that but I know nothing of the Bernie of which you speak.

    Like Bernie Sanders Alanzo gets up on a podium in an angry fashion makes criticisms of others to gain alliances and to use consensus as a weapon.
     
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  3. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Nope, this is not about Bernie Sanders and this is not a political thread.

    What Alanzo is doing is not original. It's a copy of someone that was doing the same thing years ago.

    Same playbook.
     
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  4. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    Are you talking about the Wise Old Goat website?
     
  5. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Nope.
     
  6. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I tried to get to the website and just get this message:
     
  7. Emma

    Emma Mother of Dragons Administrator

    Actually Bernie's site helped me a lot when I first got out. I was looking for balanced criticism and that's what I saw. I never defended him on a.r.s because I was scared to do so.

    Bernie was always criticised for being "reasonable" like that was a crime. It wasn't. It was his viewpoint, which as far as I'm aware, he was entitled to have.
     
  8. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I do recall the website with Bernie. He was pretending to be a critic while targeting the real critics.
     
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  9. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I have an old friend from long ago who I discovered had become a fan of Bernie.

    I could never get my self to tell him that Bernie was only playing a role. I'm sure that Bernie helped my friend and gave him some relief.

    If only someone could find his site, or a mirror of his site, we could all look at his site newly and make up our minds.

    But he and his site seem to be gone.
     
  10. Emma

    Emma Mother of Dragons Administrator

    I know. It's a shame. I think it's been gone a long time as many years ago I looked for it and couldn't find it.

    I've found many of these older website have either gone, or been partially deleted. I feel like I have to move fast to archive that which remains.
     
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  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    it's not that websites are deleted, it's actually the new google and any search engine these days, it's call AI and ML, artificial intelligent and machine learning. What was once easy to research has become harder because of AI and ML.
     
  12. Emma

    Emma Mother of Dragons Administrator

    Actually it is that some websites are deleted. Really. The owner doesn't renew the domain, the hosting costs don't get paid etc. The Wayback machine doesn't archive every page of every site. Lermanet is gone. It's nothing to do with AI.
     
  13. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    There is something to what he says though even if what you say is true.
     
  14. Emma

    Emma Mother of Dragons Administrator

    I probably phrased it wrong. I meant to say that not all web pages that appear to be gone, are a symptom of AI or ML. Some are just gone.
     
  15. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    I wasn't being critical, just didn't want you to dismiss that possibility.
     
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  16. Alanzo

    Alanzo Screeching Harpy

    I don't even know, but a vague memory of someone complaining about him decades ago - probably you - who Bernie even is.

    Being reasonable about Scientology and Anti-Scientology is not a cabal. Or a paid OSA position of some kind.

    It's a reasoned, experienced, and much more disciplined position than the position of 'Scientologist' or 'anti-Scientologist'.

    I came to this - my own position, not Bernie's - through decades of living as a Scientologist and an Anti-Scientologist, study in Scientology and in real philosophy, debate and struggle, resulting in hard-won knowledge.

    Veda - You are stuck in Anti-Scientology.

    Perhaps you should get out more.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  17. Dotey OT

    Dotey OT Patron with Honors

    This is all very sad. Being new to this site, I can see an effect. I don't know if it's by design, but what has happened here is rather spooky.

    I live in a house that's on a few acres in a rural area. We have had horses, dogs, cats, chickens, etc. A cat was missing for breakfast the other day, unusual for her. After a couple of days, I walked around the grounds seeing if I could see any clues. I found cat parts. Unfortunately, a coyote or similar must have gotten her. I have been under the weather since, but know this will pass.

    What's gone on recently on ESMB has me more upset, frankly. I think I'll be taking a break for a bit, I'm always complaining about people who spend so much time with face implanted to screens, and I've become one of them. It's not because I can't enter into debate or won't hear the other side. It's because i know my judgement has been very right in the past, but i denied it so many times, especially in the cult. Since this site has been taken over, it's not the same. Say what you want. This is my vote.
     
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  18. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    If and when Emma does turn out the lights here I'm going to need counselling to mitigate the extreme withdrawal symptoms I know I'm going to have to endure. I really don't know what I'm going to use to fill in the empty hours that will result in the closure of this board. :(
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  19. Emma

    Emma Mother of Dragons Administrator

    Adopt more crows?

    I go to a woodworking class on Mondays. The teacher has parrots. They are all disabled in one way or another & can't fly so he looks after them at his workshop. One of them, a male, is so sweet. He wolf whistles when you walk past.
     
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  20. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I have no idea how you came to be a Bernie clone. You'll have to work that out on your own.

    Bernie was not a genuinely reasonable - non fanatical - critic. It was a pose. It was as authentic as Hubbard, and now Miscavige's, Scientology claiming it cares about "human rights."

    Bernie's site is gone so the link below that leads, first to a Scientology Inc. disinformation site, and then links to Bernie through that disinformation site, is not illustrative as it once was.

    A Scn Inc. PR damage control/propaganda site referred others to Bernie for information. Mmmm...

    Some years later, the Scientology Inc. PR group STAND would refer to the sadly crushed and "handled" Marty Rathbun's relatively recent videos. Mmmmm....

    _____​

    Below is a link to the Scientology Inc. disinformation site.

    Amongst other things, and like the Bernie site, it lies about, and continues to attack, Paulette Cooper. The first attempt at framing Cooper for making "bomb threats," in 1972 ('Operation Dynamite'), did succeed, resulting in her indictment by a Grand Jury. It came very close to destroying her life.

    The second attempt (Operation Freakout) to have her put in a mental institution or jail was interrupted by complications resulting from the unraveling of the Snow White Guardian's Office program later in 1976 - an unraveling that led to the FBI raids of July 1977.

    The Scientology Inc. disinformation site deviously misleads on this.

    http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://www.scientologymyths.info/operation-freakout

    It even linked to the 'Bernie' site, another covert Scientology cult site, but a "perimeter defense" operation, pretending to be a "reasonable critic" site. Notice the link is at the end of the piece under "One of them is here." "Here" is in red in the above link.

    And, as Bernie's site is down, the link doesn't work anymore, but once upon a time it led to Bernie and his attacks and smears on Paulette Cooper.

    Sometimes people who've been lulled into accepting Bernie at face value would re evaluate after seeing the slime he hurled at Paulette Cooper. That's why the example was provided in the first place.

    The point of all this is not to attack you, but simply to alert people to what you are currently doing.
     
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