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Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Zinjifar, Jan 19, 2008.

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  1. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Just for the record, is anyone else here "hiding behind a false name" (myself included) a "cowardly wretch"? :)
  2. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    I can't speak for anyone else, but, I'm shivering in my boots.

  3. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Any of us who know what activity the CofS is capable of should be able to see that what Alex does on here could easily be consistant with such activity.

    Either Alex is not a real scientologist who is pretending to be aboard on the same terms as the rest of them, like Alex claims is the case. In other words Alex is a namby pamby panty-waist dilletante SP Squirrel who is being false with them while taking services.

    Or Alex is on here carrying out a Scn black op pretending to us to be what is impossible, which is an open-minded, fair scientologist who is critical of the CofS management and LRH.
  4. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Sometimes, especially when dealing with the 'Church' things *are* kind of 'black and white' :)

    I suspect it's the nature of the beast.

  5. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Which proves nothing in itself.

    It sounds, LH, like you're trying to bait Alex. Are you? If so, why?

    Is it so unlikely that Alex wants to get training in CoS while holding his views on DM?

    Granted, I was very slow on the uptake with Eamonn Gosney. :duh: :)

    I don't know the details of the ARS matters Zinj mentioned. I decided when I joined ESMB that I'd treat people as I found them and not be prejudiced by reputations, e.g. Dennis.

    What is it specifically that Alex has posted that is pissing people off?
  6. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes, that's how Ron set it up because of his own black & white personality.

    Alex is saying that he or she is grey (sorry gray! :wink2: ). Alex claims to be critical of but faithful to the CofS! :confused2: Ron never permitted such open-mindedness, unless you were a GO operative. :coolwink:
  7. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    :thumbsup: :yes:
  8. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    As Alex is aware, the internet, of which ESMB is a part, is not a court of law. There are no 'rules of evidence' or 'rights of the accused'; only opinions. Which makes Alex apparent conviction of Keith Henson for heinous crimes dubious.

    It's for his own good? Or, maybe it's just to offer Alex an opportunity to get off his 'withholds' :)

    Not that. What's so unlikely is that Alex would be *allowed* to get training while at the same time expressing his 'views' publicly and with 'Church' awareness.

    Alex said he was cool :) Surely that counts for something...

    It's not about pissing people off. It's about false flags and taking advantage of what can be naivete or even deliberate naivete, as you express. I'm certainly not suggesting that Alex be prevented from posting whatever he wants to, but, I reserve the right to see it as deliberate subtrefuge.

  9. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Please count me in as an "open-minded, fair scientologist who is critical of the CofS management and (some aspects of) LRH".
  10. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    not important
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2012
  11. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Fair enough Zinj. Thanks for getting back on that.

    The only point I would make is that I can't see an F/Ning student having a problem staying on course, whatever his/her current beliefs. How would such be discovered?
  12. ExScnDude

    ExScnDude Patron with Honors

    In my case it would be a "circumspect wretch".
  13. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Okay TS, that seems to be the datum I have missed - the okay from OSA.
    My apologies if this has created a little dev-t for anyone.

    Please bear in mind that my memory is barely any better than Guy Pearce in Memento (and yes, we all know what that means). :duh:

    I agree that such a scenario seems highly implausible.
  14. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    He could express his beliefs on ESMB or ARS or to his wife or children (who would write a KR) or he might just be a dubious character; like alanzo

  15. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    For myself, Alex can do whatever he (is it a he?) wants to do as regards Scn services. But as far as Scn is concerned I have no desire for any more people to suffer from Scn abuse and betrayal of their spiritual natures.

    Therefore whenever Scns start painting an untrue picture of Scn my cult-dar starts bleeping. I get a "we want to sucker more people into our cult" warning bleeping away.

    Alex says he is taking services, but does not support CofS abuse! Huh?:confused2:

    Alex says you can be a Scientologist in good standing but hide from them that you are posting on critical message boards. Huh? :confused2: Oh no you can't!

    So then Alex said that it was a correspondence course he was doing and had no present attendence at a Church. Huh? :confused2:

    Is Alex a Scientologist? Alex is one of those people who tries to paint a cosy picture of earlier Scn and how the current management have corrupted LRH's creation. Alex is either mistaken or is lying.

    So I try to speak the truth. If it stops one person from being suckered in by Alex's false information, then I have achieved what I have set out to achieve.
  16. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Supposedly Alex is not only posting to ARS and ESMB, but, the 'Church' is *aware* of it, and allowing him to continue without 'ethics actions'.

    It's quite possible that someone might post anonymously without being caught, although, the 'Church' goes to extreme measures to 'discover' such stuff...

  17. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    I wasn't having a pop at you LH - you're local! :)

    Thanks for expanding on your point.

    I don't tend to register too much on personal details (especially if I haven't exchanged posts with a person); I tend to focus on ideas and humour (though some might argue). I see where you're coming from now.
  18. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Fine. Wonderful! :thumbsup: So you are NOT a Scientologist per LRH's definition in KSW.

    You are PTS or SP, according to Ron.

    You are a dilletant and theety weety according to LRH. Congratulations!
  19. ExScnDude

    ExScnDude Patron with Honors

    Come on now. We've all seen people like Alex in the course room.

    If he is not an operative, then he is currently not in the situation where his withholds are being pulled - or he has a crappy auditor who's missing these withholds continuously.

    If it were known by Dept. 3 or OSA that he has been communicating to declared SPs, there would be an ongoing ethics cycle concerning that - unless of course he is doing services in some backwater understaffed org or mission, doing some Div 6 course - more or less under the radar.

    Yet Alex has stated on another thread that he more or less agrees with everything in KSW. Hmmmmmmm...... - makes me think that Alex is only peripherally involved and not doing major services at an org.

    Alex, if you're not here on the orders of OSA, then get ready for a massive ethics cycle.

    You'll never get on the OT Levels at the Co$ until it's "handled".
  20. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well, recently Alex said it was a corespondence course he or she was doing. In which case this person is not really on-lines.

    If that is false and Alex is actually on-lines, then you cannot be an F/Ning student and have different beliefs from the CofS beliefs. Ron set it up so that that is impossible. Due to partial belief in some of Ron's Scn dogma, you will feel guilty about posting on ESMB. Ron implanted that into his auditing and study technology.

    When I was a course super I could easily detect these things. The very dogma that is being studied will flag up the wandering doubt.

    When I was an auditor and C/S I could easily detect such witholds. The very style of the session and auditing techniques used would flag up SP/PTSness, and witholds.

    Ron set up the tech this way in the 60's. You cannot be an F/Ning Scientologist in the CofS and harbour lingering doubts. KSW put an end to that. The only way to F/N in the CofS is to be a true believer. Otherwise you end up on the RPF or in the SP Hall or sec-checked or off-loaded.

    PS - we are cool Tans. I don't mind clarifying and expanding my ideas. :)