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Is Scientology really that bad?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Voodoo, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think you're confusing him with Gen. Orin D. Quagmyre.
  2. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well, as a "Beist" (as differentiated from an existentialist?) you are a being.

    You and I should be pretty much on the same page with that...

    Now then...

    If there is no other being superior to me then I would be The Supreme Being. As I am incontrovertably CERTAIN!!!

    ...I am not The Supreme Being

    Then someone else must be

    Is it you?
  3. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    You would be well advised to examine the definition of rhetoric.

    I make few rhetorical statements, most notably:

    Science of Survival is the single finest basic handbook of psychology ever published.

    Reports of material occurences are not rhetoric.
  4. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    you, on the other hand, ought to be advised to know the difference between rhetoric and rhetorical.

    SOS, dianetics and all of Hubbard's writings, that means everything including his HCO PL's and HCOB's and advices, and books, etc are the finest pieces of rhetoric using logos, pathos and ethos to persuade.

    "Ethos or the ethical appeal, means to convince an audience of the author's credibility or character. Pathos or the emotional appeal, means to persuade an audience by appealing to their emotions. ... Logos or the appeal to logic, means to convince an audience by use of logic or reason."
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
    Type4_PTS and Bill like this.
  5. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    As I like to say, its a fraud, a cult, a religion, a philosophy and a high control grroup (I should know, right?) and way of life all in one.
    Gib likes this.
  6. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Trump's not sure if the general's on his team or not. He's kinda wog-wog about it.
  7. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I am persuaded by the results of practical application Gib

    And less than pleased by Hubbard's egregious use of rhetoric

    As I have essayed before I know the exact time I truly became an auditor.

    After I trained in SF I came east and was hanging out at Bobby Ford's Cambridge mission. He ran the 50's group process "Infinite Space" one day and I was impressed with it. A few day later Billy Martin and I were at his friend Steve's house. They were in the kitchen and was with Steve's wife in the living room. I mentioned I was studying scientology and she asked about it. Using NO RHETORIC WHATSOEVER to prepare her as I wanted to examine the result with a person who was not prepared I ran the Infinite Space process, seven simple commands. When I was done she opened her big blue eyes and said "A few years ago I had ECT. Ever since my head has felt stuffed up. Now it feels clear.

    No rhetoric.

    Pure practical application and result
  8. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    The amount of truly bad thinking going on with you is astounding.
    false cause
    You presumed that a real or perceived relationship between things means that one is the cause of the other.​
    You seem to confuse correlation for causation. Sometimes correlation is coincidental, or it may be attributable to a common cause. I knew a woman who could "cure" my headaches with a foot rub -- but others, using the same "foot rub tech", couldn't do so.​
    You assumed that one part of something has to be applied to all, or other, parts of it; or that the whole must apply to its parts.​
    Because a few things in Hubbard's "tech" appear to work for you, you assume all the "tech" is workable for everyone.​

    begging the question
    You presented a circular argument in which the conclusion was included in the premise.​
    Your "proof" that Hubbard's tech works is "the tech works". Where are the actual results that Hubbard promised his "tech" would produce? Nope, your only answer is "the tech works because the tech works". Sheesh.​
    You used a personal experience or an isolated example instead of a sound argument or compelling evidence.​
    the texas sharpshooter
    You cherry-picked a data cluster to suit your argument, or found a pattern to fit a presumption.​
    You only remember your personal anecdotes where something good appeared to happen --- while carefully ignoring hard evidence that Hubbard's promised results from his "tech" have never been seen in the real world.​
    the sunk cost fallacy
    You irrationally cling to things that have already cost you something.​
    It appears that you have invested so much of your life and beliefs in the idea that "Hubbard is a genius! The tech works!" that, to admit much of that is lies would be more than you could stand.​
    confirmation bias
    You favor things that confirm your existing beliefs.​
    belief bias
    A conclusion supports your existing beliefs, so you'll rationalize anything that supports it.​
    the backfire effect
    When some aspect of your core beliefs is challenged, it can cause you to believe even more strongly.​

  9. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    We had a few discussions lately regarding the alledged satanic natute of the cult which would be 9n total opposition with cristian practice.

    Here are for you @Clay Pigeon , some very interesting excerpt of credible and knowledged people on the subject...although I know it won't hit you critical thought but will be processed in cognitive dissonance and justification of yours...


    It is obvious, acvording to Birdy, his " esteemed Mr Hubbard's Christian faith was so deep and powerful...."

  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    so you do get Hubbard used rhetoric.

    so you had some results from running "infinite space" on one person. How many others have you run on it? Are you still running infinite space on others, and if not, why not? And do tell of other success stories if you have run infinite space on them.

    BTW, I've never heard of infinite space as a process. Do you recall where that is written?
  11. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Cmdr Birdy wants to hold onto his stable data and wins. I'm not sure it's doing his mental health any good being on this board being continually invalidated. Why do you persist Birdy?
  12. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    An energetic assault on The Birdsong Encampment.

    Energetic yes but you seem to have as little grasp of the principles of logical fallacy as you have of the basic principles of auditing. Which probably means the person coaching you is incompetent. FBM assailed me with the whole list of LF's some years ago. I don't know who gave them to him but he couldn't make heads or tails of them either.

    I'll give you a detailed line item response later on...
  13. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well P&B, I could surely write a book in response and perhaps I shall...

    But for the moment...

    The year before DMSMH was published The Nobel Prize in Medicine was awarded to the Portuguese "Doctor" who rammed a surgical instrument very similar to a dime store icepick through the occipital bone behind the eye and wiggled it to mutilate the frontal lobes of the brain.

    Prefrontal lobotomy thank God is no longer practiced and dianetics is

    Would you prefer it to be the other way around?

    And invalidate me to your hearts content...

    I love free speech and am grateful to have it here
  14. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    You like it!
  15. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I like signs of life darling...
  16. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    O yeah...

    Another reason I persist is I'm fukkin' dyin' f'crissakes; advanced COPD and atrial fibrillation and since my car was stolen three years ago I'm sleeping on the sidewalk and as of three months ago finally reduced to getting around with a fukkin' walker f'crissakes...

    and lively debate about significant issues helps keep me goin'...
  17. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    You do not have to insult me. I understand you disagree with me but we can still be friends and have a polite discourse.

    A little bit ago, you demanded that we believe you or, you insisted, we must insult you by calling you deluded and/or a liar. I declined to insult you but my list of logical fallacies was an answer to your prior demand. These are the reasons we are not going to believe you -- you have not presented any logical arguments in that endeavor -- every effort you make in that direction is fatally flawed, by the logical fallacies I have listed, and many more.

    You don't have to give up your belief, not at all, just stop demanding that we believe you or agree with you.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
    Gib likes this.
  18. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    you should have joined the Sea org, you know the motto is We Come Back. While the Buddhist believes we come back, hubbard said we can come back with full memory of who we were if we just followed his steps up the bridge to total freedom. You'd have not'in to worry about if you are dyin'.

    Aren't we all dyin' in this stage of the game?
  19. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    So William,
    How about you give up on wasting precious time
    And energy in acting and making fun in behaving like a troll.

    There are many topics you may debate and discuss with people and that won't bring about such emotional charge in reacting to your pretense about LRH and the Tech and validation you won"t have.

    May I suggest you create a Birdie thread and you choose whatever you'd like to discuss, share or even opening your heart if you feel for. Would it better contribute in helping you going through your days????

    There are multiple stories you can share .

    However, if your only option remains to discuss the wonders of the Tech..fine.. Make your own "Tech wins" thread in the freezone forums and that may result in some people wanting to discuss Tech with you.

    Good luck!
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  20. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    You have a beautiful soul Birdie ... and you don't deserve what is happening. I know you worked hard to keep things together and I was only wondering earlier today if you are still driving the cab ... now I know it got stolen.

    Take care sweetheart and find the right people over there and ask for help.

    Cat's Squirrel likes this.