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Is Scientology really that bad?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Voodoo, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    you are doing the same thing Hubbard did, LOL.

    The guy you are talking about who got the Noble Peace award was Moniz, and yes in 1949 and lobotomy. But the guy used that technique to help the truly mentally ill, and not normal people.

    "To feel good mentally, nerve impulses in the brain have to function properly. In the mid-1930s Egas Moniz introduced lobotomy, a surgical operation involving an incision into the prefrontal lobe to mitigate severe symptoms of serious mental illnesses. The operation was widespread during the 1940s and 1950s, but it became apparent that it could lead to serious personality changes. The use of lobotomies declined drastically when medications for mental illness were developed during the 1950s."

    So there you go.

    What Hubbard did thru his rhetoric was to convince people thru his Dianetics , The Modern Science of Mental Health, a rhetoric writing to persuade, was to convince us that we had mental health problems by using an analogy of the mentally ill to so called achieved state of clear as written in Dianetics.

    Aren't you clear yet, clay? You ought to be.

    But here's the thing, Hubbard comparing mentally ill to a modern man with some problems is not the same thing as being mentally ill.

    We was duped as well as you.

    you said "Prefrontal lobotomy thank God is no longer practiced and dianetics is"

    well, dianetics is not being practiced widespread. The book would still be on the best sellers list of all time read books, and we would have dianetics groups all over the world.

    You are so full of shit it's unbelievable.

    But nice try, I can do this all day.

    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  2. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    We are all dying William, it's a process that begins the moment we are conceived. Why you should imagine that repeatedly describing the parlous state of your health and circumstances adds weight to your argument is utterly beyond me.
  3. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    May be because he is alone with a cluster of suffering.

    When we have a good bed, good food , good care, medication, nurses, social workers and attention from our loved ones, it makes it certainly easier than being an old man deprived of basics and resiliency, facing day after day either contempt or ignorance ...

    May be Birdy needs affection, attention, as any human being, he wants humanity and he gets a little here on ESMB ( We all come here because we get attention from the audience)

    Despite I often am no reasonable with his sayings, ( he likes controversy and debates) he knows I do care and affectionate him and I (we all) wish he soon demands and gets proper room and board and care in an environement he can socialize.

    We all need humanity and attention, especially when we are suffering and alone; otherwise life is meaningless and either we grow ressentment or we end it.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
    Type4_PTS and tesseract like this.
  4. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    The reason I get annoyed is because instead of doing something to better his circumstances he seems apathetic and blames others for his condition.
  5. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron


    Actually on "The First Dynamic" I've been a fukkin' chronic grief/apathy case my whole fukkin' life f'crissakes

    And my "Second Dynamic" is a radioactive grease spot on the sidewalk.


    By God!!!

    I sure as hell hit for both average and power on the "Seventh Dynamic"


    I don't like sounding like a "responsible for condition case" but I have been SCREWED big time. For the most part I've overcome the damage done by the shrinks but many still dismiss as a nut case for my psych history.

    But the real horror story is the separation from my sons. I still have hope of seeing the two who still live before I die but now the time has passed when I can do much for them. I had so much treasure for them and now too late...


    But no!

    I am NOT!!! "doing nothing to better my circumstances" I've damn well worked my fukkin' ass off my whole life Stratsie. Two of my pro bono projects have been featured on CBS' "Sixty Minutes" another got me a Letter of Commendation from Member of Congress Nancy Pelosi, and several other things have gone unrecognized or been shot down

    Currently I am working on a truly Big Ticket Item; a serious proposal to Amend the Constitution and it is my hope the book I have on Amazon will eventually get the sales it deserves and render me some modest prosperity


    I'm currently very short on resources, sleeping on the sidewalk since my car was stolen in May of 2016 and now in failing health...


    So I might die unknown on the sidewalk but who gives a damn. I've been productive, creative and maintained my personal integrity; I might not die pretty but I'll die well...
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  6. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    And what the fuck is a 'responsible for condition case'? More of Hubbard's pseudo psychological claptrap! You set so much store on this charlatan's 'work' and the truth is even if it did work - which it doesn't, he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire in the condition you're in anyway. In my opinion you need to get real mate and see where your adherence to this man's philosophy has got you - fucking nowhere!
    Bill likes this.
  7. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Like Hell Stratsie!!!

    To begin with, I am an adherent primarily of Judeochristian philosphy and You and others are welcome to hurl invalidation my way until the swallows come back to cappucino and I will still know what I have done with the knowledge and ability I picked up from auditing and training


    You spent what? Some twenty years as an active scieno? Much of it on staff? I was active three years before the bullshit built so high I split. How could you stay so long and learn so little?

    It's a serious (and affectionate) question Strats.

    I'm puzzled...
  8. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    I found out about scientology in 1963. I left the sea org in 1973/4. So that's around ten years. I spent about two years in total on and off on staff (as an active scieno), so where you are getting your figures from I have no idea.

    Yes, you are absolutely right, I learned precious little that was of any real value whatsoever - oh, except that old newspaper is great for cleaning windows - oh, and how to recycle toilet paper, but I won't go into that here.

    And in the two years while I was on staff I went from grade zero to OTI, became a Class IV and Standard Dianetics Graduate auditor and C/S and was Tech Sec of London Org. And this was when scientology was booming.

    And you ...?
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  9. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I learned far more from my involvement in Scientology after I left and did critical thinking about it than when I was in.
    Same for Christianity.

    Sometimes, we can learn more from analyzing bad experiences/involvement than good experiences/involvement.

    And we can help other people by warning them.
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  10. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    @Birdie ... if your book is online, available using PayPal and my details will remain private, I'll buy it.

    Put the info up here (ignore any sneering from the auditorium).

    I urge anyone with a bit of heart to buy it too.
  11. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

  12. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Cool (I hadn't seen that). Unfortunately I've just remembered why I didn't buy it when Birdie first mentioned it ... the article says it's on Amazon and they don't take PayPal so I never use it.

    @Birdie ... do you accept Paypal privately?
  13. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Several years ago you attempted to forward some money via Paypal to Birdie but he couldn't retrieve it then.

    He would need to check if he has access to his account.
  14. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    True (you have an amazing memory!).

    I think he could have retrieved it but for some reason he didn't and after 3 months Paypal returned it to me. Purple Rain also sent him a gift via Paypal which was apparently returned to her.
  15. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    If memory serves it was a problem with login in his e-mail account.

    Yes for memory...I am known to have a phenomenal memory of events and what people causes me problems with liars who hate to have me

    Although, some days, I can't remember what I did yesterday :oops:
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  16. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Then I was unable to contact the person who set up the website...

    But truly the thought is worth even more than the cash
  17. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Then this guy, Dan Blacharski hasn't responded to me for nearly two years. I went to South Bend Indiana to try to find him and couldn't and learned he might have moved to Thailand.


    My Amazon account is inaccessible and the proceeds go into his bank account as I didn't have one when he set it up.


    I had been suspecting my feeble attempts at promoting the book were being hacked which I haven't mentioned as those who think me paranoid have enough supporting evidence already but now I have PROOF!!!

    About which more soon...

    Thank you very much...

    The jewel is in the lotus today...
  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    True dat...

    It still surprises me so many spend years with CoS and don't pick up on a tenth of what I got from it.

    I think in many cases it is because people are looking at it in terms of the mountain range "superpowers" when they should be looking to climb first the foothills.


    Hubbard was very cunning in designing his teaching so it would be a wine which does not travel well. The trick being to see how the wine is made and make homebrew from the grapes in fields beyond...
    Me and My Self likes this.
  19. Me and My Self

    Me and My Self Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn

    I'd like to read it. Especially given that it is written from a Christian point of view.
    Do you still have the digital version? Maybe we could set up a blog or something with a Paypal payment button and the digital book to download thereafter? Or any other payment alternative that you may have.
    Let me know, I'd like to help.

    Wasn't aware of the Amazon account issue, though. Shared the link on Facebook ... sorry. :confused:
    But maybe something can still be done! :flowers2:
  20. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron


    The parlous state of my health and circumstances takes weight away from my argument which I quite well know however I am enamored of truth.

    Still my spiritual condition ain't too shabby...