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Is there any good in Scientology?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Wedinn, Dec 28, 2018.

  1. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't pretend to be an expert on the e-meter but I do know that I've read a lot of theories about it that make no sense to me.

    I've spent hundreds of hours holding the cans and being audited and I can confidently say the e-meter has had no negative effect on me whatsoever, either physically or mentally.

    I've also read about the so-called "high" people are supposed to receive from auditing. The only "high" comes when you've realised something you didn't know previously. This is the same "high" you get when you suddenly find your car keys after thinking you've lost them. It's not mysterious and certainly not hypnosis, as some people would have you believe.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
    Terril park likes this.
  2. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Exactly. This "high" has zero to do with the meter. Run CCHs on someone for a bit.
  3. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I would say that your health practitioner knows more than I do about all of this. The only information I have on the dangers of amperage comes from due diligence prior to the purchase of stun gun gifts for my mother and ex wife for their protection in this country as it's turned out.
    I found this before I purchased:
    One of our strongest stun guns is the Runt. It has 4.5 milliamps which is more than enough to overload the electrical impulses of the human body. The body has nerves just about everywhere so anywhere you touch the person with the probes of the stunner is going to have an effect. However, if possible, you want to go for the major muscles groups such as the neck, upper body, or even groin area to have the best effect. See Highest amperage stun gun
    Scientology states their device is low voltage, but voltage is less an issue than amperage. I have a volt/amp meter for testing my emeter but have somehow lost the leads and charging cable over the decades and the multiple times I've moved.
    Beyond this I would say just use google till you find what your looking for.
    If you want to experience the "gains" from an auditing session just hold the cans while you watch TV, read a book or just meditate, use one hand to keep the needle centered and after an hour or so you'll feel like you'd just been audited to a release - but it's just an electromagnetic phenomenon.
  4. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Hubbard did lots of research, but not for the purpose of helping mankind.
    Bill, Type4_PTS and JustSheila like this.
  5. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    I don't know about all that, but there is plenty of solid, basic research to support the fact that the paths brain waves take become habitual and well-used in time. Neurons communicate to each other through electrical impulses. It makes sense to me that the electrical charges used by an e-meter may enhance certain brain pathways and ways of thinking and decrease others as those expand. Your brain then uses the easiest, most well-tread path. In short, the e-meter enhances brainwashing by reinforcing certain thought patterns with an electrical impulse. It's really not that far out. This is just one of hundreds of articles that have come out in recent years about how the brain paths function:
    DagwoodGum likes this.
  6. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    I doubt that this was intentional. In DMSMH Hubbard explains that "bank" comes from "memory bank" and "clear" from the clear button on a calculator. But he was probably aware of the double meaning. Based on letters he wrote around the time he was putting dianetics together, he already had his eye very much on the dollar sign (and on controlling people).

    Myself, I've always suspected that "the 57 human perceptics" in Science of Survival originated in Heinz's 57 Varieties.

    JustSheila likes this.
  7. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    It probably occurred to him that he could desensitize us about our finances with frequent use of the word bank as well as keep us conceptualizing the absence of any and all assets with the frequent usage of clear.
    His mind worked that way and he played every angle that crossed his warped mind.
    tesseract likes this.
  8. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    That's awesome. Who knows, Charles could be right. Elcon was a sarcastic bastard who thought everyone was a tool, after all. He even named his characters dumb things. Johnny Goodboy Tyler. Blech. :faceslap:The cult leader seemed to enjoy having others add their own meanings to things. How about his handwritten OT3 story. :eyeroll: Yeh, right, Ron, like you didn't know how to write more than a few dumb sentences for a story. I'm pretty sure he had a few million published words under his belt by then and knew how to write. You know, that was one of the last things that pissed me off before I left for good... convinced me this writer was playing me. :wtf:

    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
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  9. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    From Hubbard's perspective, the MOST important clearing tech was that used to clear our bank accounts. And Scientology was quite effective when it came to that type of clearing.

    And surprisingly, Hubbard actually acknowledged that he wasn't sole source on what was this most important piece of technology. Back in the day he approved the use of books by Les Dane for that purpose.

    Given his discoveries and development of the tech that would create Clears and OT's, the Admin Tech, including improvement of the Org Board used by previous successful galactic civilizations, his invention of music earlier on the track, I was kind of surprised that he would entrust Les Dane or anyone besides himself to provide sales training techniques. ;)
    JustSheila and strativarius like this.
  10. Wedinn

    Wedinn Patron

    Man, Hubbard may have been a bad person, but I like his distinctive handwriting.
    While we're on the subject of good things in Scientology, I can't help but find small little things about the cult quite appealing, like the song in this video. Did they make it specifically for the commercials or is it from somewhere else?
  11. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    It's ok, but not that impressive given that Hubbard claimed to have actually invented music earlier on the whole track. :D

    Here's another thread which gets into Hubbard's musical talent a bit:
    The Power of Source
  12. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I always considered Johnny Goodboy to be his pet pseudonym for Travolta being that he was Hubbard's first grade A celeb into his fold.
    And, yeah, great point about it not being his usual mode to hand scribble an incomplete story for OT3.
    I'd never thought of it the way you present it.
    Perhaps he was waiting to see how his pc's interpreted the story, filling in the blanks for him, where he could cherry pick the best addendum's to his incomplete story and let them ghost write the rest of it, no pun intended.
    Dillard "Bud" Eubank, the guy that introduced Elcon to Mary Sue, first tipped me off in the late 70's that Hubbard stole most of what became Scientology from people Like Allan and Roger.
    They let him get away with it under the "greatest good" fallacy he penned.
    JustSheila likes this.
  13. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Yeh, that was Travolta alright. I never thought of it that way, but that was a big deal to Hubbard, getting Travolta to be his front celebrity persona.

    I go easy on Travolta because I think he's wised up a bit since then. He was one of the last "still in's" to talk to the Presley family and they are out. There are a few other celebrity names who were friends with JT who have left since, too. He's not the same diehard he once was, for sure. He doesn't even tell people he's a Scientologist anymore AFAIK.

    Oh yah, ElRon loved others' interpretations. He did it with the old ACC (remember the PL "Old ACC Students" that awarded them free reviews forever because he mucked up their minds so badly?) I used to hear stories from old-timers on the old ACC who came up with ideas that later, Hubbard claimed as his. Those were probably the best nuggets of Scientology, but never, ever qualified as research. Brain testing on unknowing subjects would be a better description. Those poor guys were really messed up. RogerB can tell you - he's one of the few still around that really knows what it was like.

    He stole everything that was half decent, and always added a twist to it. I'd love to hear your stories of what you heard from Eubank. MOORE, please! :begging:
  14. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Well, Hubbard had supposedly gone through hell -- "The Wall of Fire" -- to tame this fearsome implant. IIRC, he even said he'd broken his back. So he wasn't quite his usual brilliant self. (Actually, he wrote to Mary Sue, he'd been "taking lots of pinks and greys and drinking lots of rum.") The half-assed handwritten synopsis was supposed to show that he'd really put himself through the wringer and hadn't quite recovered yet. It was supposed to make the story more convincing.

    Edit: Apparently in your case it had the opposite effect. You must've been PTS or something. :)
    tesseract likes this.
  15. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    That fucker could write a sci-fi story unconscious. Pinks and rums would only have helped.

    Yeh, he planned it. Pissed me off. What an asshole! :furious: Do you know how long I was in the Sea Org and how hard I worked to get to OT3, and then I get that STUPID frikkin' ''Oh, I'm so damaged from going through the Wall of Fire for your sake that I can't write shit" bullshit??

    (Sorry for the swearing. I was given a lot of fine beer, wine and liquor for Christmas that I am enjoying. :coolwink:)
    tesseract, Type4_PTS and DagwoodGum like this.
  16. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I used to watch Dillard Eubank walk through the course room and the overhead fluorescent lights would surge and flash when he walked under each one, I never ever saw that happen with anyone else. I hadn't been introduced to him as of yet and as I was introverted around OT's because I thought they could see my case, I hesitated to connect with him. He was old OT7.
    One day I was doing emeter drills with a staff member auditor in a side room to the academy and Dillard and Lucille Surber were just outside our door, she was also an old OT7, who's claim to fame was that she had a hard time staying in her head and went out and about exterior with full perceptions all the time. Suddenly I saw a transparent round orb come through the doorway, about the size of a beach ball, and "it" came towards the other guy and I and passed between us just above the table, Mike Gallagher was his name, and he looked at "it" and said "look, a thetan". The floating orb suddenly went past us, turned left and went out the window 8 stories up.
    I was thought of as being keyed out OT after some incidents, one where I knocked about 60 of 90 cork squares off a wall that I had just glued up on a wall when I was on volunteer staff. The ED, Bob Kuyper, had walked up and said they were on the wrong wall and I turned towards them and felt a huge surge of energy go out and knocked 2/3 of them off the wall all at once, he laughed hysterically. There were no other causative factors involved.
    Later I was painting the upstairs reception area and a guy wiped his paintbrush on my arm as a joke so I waited to get him back. I saw him across the lobby talking with a gal he had a crush on and I loaded my brush with white paint, threw it at him and it went bristles first into his mouth with paint running out the corners of his mouth and the handle sticking out. It was about a 25 foot throw, so my reputation was born as you know how rumors fly, but I could always hit what I threw at as I'd been a woodsman since I could walk and threw rocks all the time and could sometimes hit flying birds.
    So suddenly I had Dillard start a conversation with me.
    He told me he was a licensed psychologist which I found odd due to his being a Scientologist. But I was growing disillusioned with Scientology, largely due to the rising costs, and the senior cs sat me down to explain how much it would cost me to get up the bridge and wanted me to join staff saying it would cut my costs down to an affordable level, I had never considered the immense cost of setups in addition to advertised costs.
    So I decided that I was done as I was NOT about to go through the hell of even a 2 1/2 year contract being that it was more than likely impossible that I'd be able to recruit my replacement after. Too few people training to be auditors, luckily I'd bought my training package back when it was $1,300.
    Then I start running into former members who had copies of all the OT levels they were handing out.
    One of them tells me to call Dillard. I called him and he had me over and offered to audit me all the way up the bridge and that he would only bill my health insurance for standard counseling costs. I almost went for it but by then I didn't see much in the OT levels that I thought would be worth the amount of time and effort it would take to undertake such a regimen.
    Dillard went on and on about the old days at St. Hill, and how Hubbard stole who Dillard was courting as his own girlfriend, Mary Sue Whipp. Dillard had been seeing her, strictly platonic though he was working on it becoming more. So he thought "I know, I'll take her over and introduce her to Ron to impress her" as she was now on lines. So he did.
    Dillard and Mary Sue left together and when he called her in a couple of days that dirty bastard Hubbard had already stolen her away and she told Dillard she couldn't see him as she was now seeing Ron. Dillard was crestfallen but thought "better to lose her to Ron than some ordinary Joe". That's all I remember except of course that he told me about how Ron stole the grades and other portions of the tech from his minions who he would assign "research projects" to, based largely on their past experience with other practices, of all things.
    I just remember what a gentleman Dillard was, how calm and at peace he seemed. Of course he was later declared, but what else is new?
    I'm glad that Travolta has seen the light though he has probably considered the consequences of speaking out about it.
    There, I think this was my longest post ever.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  17. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Jee-yay-ziss TINOK!

    As I recall you were quite thrilled with what I manifested in the Bruins post-season run the year of the marathon bombing.

    I was a Bruins fan when I was a kid but I've just been Sox and Pats for years. After the bombing I hurried out of the Haight back to the home of the bean and the cod to hop in the cab and run a group dianetic assist on my beloved Boston. I had but half an eye on The Gaahdin and it's fleet stickmen but after they split the first two with the Leafs, back in the playoffs after an eleven season hiatus, Toronto graciously played generous nd compassionate host to her wounded sister city.

    That was when I stepped up, exercising spiritual capacities long developed and refined with our legendary horsehide and and pigskin heroes. Silently I poke to the lads to repay the kindness, lose at home and return to slice off a taste of postseason glory to the long suffering faithful of an oh-six club. This occurred. In as much as I account my part in it as purely spiritual you are at liberty to question and to doubt but are yet bidden to respect the passionate honesty of the writer...


    Game seven at the new Garden with all it's old banners in the raffish rafters. Not knowing much of the details of Canada's national sport I merely directed our homies to score five goals. The Maple Leafs seconded the motion by scoring four. No NHL team had ever overcome a three goal deficit in the third period before but as you may have noticed the unprecedented has put quite a bit of mileage on the duck boats in this century. With ten minutes left we got one back...

    And then it appears from you own words you had (if you will pardon the jargon) an ARCX with the squabbling millionaires who so long delayed the dropping of the first puck that year but, an forgive me for tendering an accusation which cuts so hard against the grain of your own polemic, by reason of a spiritual sensitivity magnified by an honest investigation of creative psychology as developed by L Ron Hubbard and his many colleagues, you tuned in just as Tukka skated to he bench and and the noxious and infamous pair of terrorist explosions were echoed in soothing glory on the ice.

    Then you and all of us had a Nantucket sleigh ride whale of a time didn't we?

    Into the finals against a powerhouse Blackhawk team.


    After that rascal Rask had surrendered but six goals in seven games (plus nearly two more of overtime) I had to pull the string on him. The four playoff series corresponded in most exquisite fashion with the four movements of a symphony and it's true climax, it's victory and it's glory, it's IN-YOUR-FACE response to the affront an the assault came when Crawford stood in traffic for nearly a minute wit a broken leg. It was not a time for victory but for elegy and the last notes were as eloquent as ever were Mozart Beethoven or Johan S. The Blasts on Boylston echoed once victory echoed once again to bow our hearts to realities more pertinent and of more pith and moment than even such meaningful happenstance than Lord Stanley's Cup then hoisted and paraded before us. Caught up in the moment I suppose the breezy boys from The Windy City were thinking but of their own celebration but the deeper vision reveals them as offering their trophy up to collect the tears and fears of a town which had courageously won the honor.

    And I was in the pudding with it TINOK.

    Demur as you will compadre, you were in the pudding with it as well. You tasted sweet viands reserved for those who make the struggles of the heart and soul...
  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    In Mission Earth Soltan Gris is giving his confession and Soltan is one of three alter egos or the author. The kid is his idealization of himself but Gris is both caricature to satirize CIA et al and vehicle for Hubbard to give his personal confession. Gris is in accomodations provided by Lord Voltar whose name uses the same letters as Travolta who may very well have been instrumental in acquiring the Creston property.
  19. This is NOT OK !!!!

    This is NOT OK !!!! Gold Meritorious Patron

    I like your writing just fine sir - there's a fable element to your wordsmithing.

    So don't get all worked up if after all we've been through that I get a little reactionary from time to time, especially when I'm posting from work and don't have the time to write a treatise about a few "workable" (God, I hate that fucking word so much now - Hubs poisoned it) pieces of "tech" (ditto).

    Therefore, I reserve my right to SHOUT OUT


    Especially, since I'm right in the main.

    Peace brother and Happy New Year.

    P.S. Please help the Celts become the team we all hope them to be.​
    tesseract likes this.
  20. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    If you mean me I stand behind every word, that's why I used the names of key people who would remember these events, minus a couple of assholes that were involved, then as friends but have filled my ethics folders with knowledge reports regarding my opinions of what Scientology had devolved to.
    When I first got in during the early 70's there were spiritual people like Ingo Swann hanging out.
    Then through body routing the orgs became filled with such soulless dregs that were only in the morgue because they could be other determined through body routing who had nothing else going on and never even heard of spiritual evolution.
    It all went downhill from there and there was nothing "OT" or spiritual about the place any longer.
    There are many here who recollect that transition.
    Lots of people exteriorised when very young and they remember.
    But none of these things are possible in your mind because to say they are would only open up a subject that you slammed the door on when you left Scientology.
    Scientology is shit but the truths they held up as carrots can be realized without them, in fact I don't see where these abilities can be attained there like they occasionally could back through the old OT levels.
    But those who did attain some abilities usually were not the body routed type of people, who often were just bums.
    They were people with previous forays into the various subjects related to their spirituality and it didn't take much direction for them to realize some abilities occasionally.
    Clay Pigeon likes this.