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Is there any good in Scientology?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Wedinn, Dec 28, 2018.

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  1. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    A soul so transcendent as Leonard Cohen is not so terribly bound to time...

    We know when he was active but it is highly likely he was engaged with discussion with friends about Scn and Hubbard for years before he took any courses. One would not think Leonard Cohen would just walk in cold off the street and sign up.
     
  2. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    If you read the background story (about how he drove past that big blue building, (the name of the dump escapes me momentarily) with Joni Mitchell) that is more or less what happened.
     
  3. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    If HelluvaHoax gets deported to Helatrobus I expect a HelluvaTrophy.

    After all, doing advanced research is difficult riding around in an intergalactic Bluebird MotorSpacecraft.
     
  4. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'd like to see that story if you can pony it up sometime.

    It was his recommendation that got me in the door. I was walking by the Berkeley mission in March of '71 and one of the things I saw in the window was Cohen saying "I always find something in Scientology".
     
  5. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    To be perfectly candid I'm more likely to deport Immigration Services to Helatrobus than you Hoaxie...
     
  6. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    1. I take he said he failed because he said he failed. What's not show in the vid is also he said he's not coming back. It might be in Lawrence Wright book.

    He failed and he's not coming back. What's the motto of the Sea Org - We Come Back. There have been no recorded evidence of anybody coming back claiming their pc folders. Nor the LRH.

    LRH is a scam and his dianetics and scientology are also.

    2. It's not sanity, he's a madman with a dream using classical rhetoric to persuade.

    3. If he said he failed, why did he allow the scam to continue. Why didn't he issue a memo saying such to all those involved in his mocked up game?

    4. Once you die, there will be no more judeochristian people here claiming LRH was a great man or some of his works are worthy.

    I'd like to here your views of classical rhetoric instead of your poety and whatever.
     
  7. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Well, your mentor L Ron Hubbard developed scientology to help the able become more able. If you cannot master simple computer skills such as copy/pasting and internet searching I'm afraid Hubbard would say you are beyond salvation and should be disposed of quietly and without sorrow. C'est la vie.
     
  8. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    According to his biography, "I'm Your Man", one of the reasons he left scientology was that "disenchantment had set in, as well as anger that the organisation had begun to exploit his name" .

    That sign in the window could have been a major footbullet for the org.
     
  9. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Er, I beg to differ. LRH HAS come back. Haven't you been keeping up?

     
  10. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Kinda appropriate that the returned Hubs is an ex-con.
     
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    what's the color of his tie?

    LOL
     
  12. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    I notice he describes himself as coming from an 'upper middle class' family. I wonder whether his grandfather owns a quarter of Montana.
     
  13. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    As it happens, I've never had an interest in developing computer skills and I'm now in my seventieth year in severely deteriorating health. The spirit remains lively and though the mind often fails to summon well known facts - good heavens! four days to come up with Paul Desmond as the composer of "Take Five"?!? I should be deported to Helatrobus - it too remains lively and both receptive and creative.

    Yeah, Ron might hang me

    Or he might not

    And you are quoting the worst flaw in SOS. I red-lined that passage in the book when I read it as I did other of Ron's writings which cut against the grain of my own flawed but fairly well developed judeochristian sensibilities.

    The strengths of his work remains. Auditing is a noble calling and in the hands of intelligent men and women of good will it can certainly be used to good result
     
  14. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I wouldn't mind an opportunity to read Dean Wilbur but, not being a liberal I don't usually hold forth on subjects of which I know little. Hubbard's use of rhetoric in DMSMH was egregious and it was obvious on sight. Over many years I've made several attempts to give "Book One" a second reading none of them have lasted very long.

    Yes, Gibby, all ESMB members of judeochristian inclination who found value in the study have long since been run out of here
     
  15. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    When I said computer skills, that gave it more significance than it deserved. Not being able to cut/copy and paste is equivalent to owning a car but not being able to change gear (yes, I know most cars have automatic transmission but you can see my point - I hope). It's simply pathetic. Don't you use the computers in a public library? I'm sure one of the assistants there could spare the two minutes it would take to teach somebody of normal intelligence how to do it - although having said that I know people who still don't get it after weeks of coaching - the mind boggles!
    Bollocks! Pure, unadulterated bollocks.
     
  16. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    As it happens I am a bit distraught at the absence of support and assistance I've had. I had one truly great friend, Billy Martin and I've given account of the surcease I brought to him in his last weeks. His friendship was the single great asset in my life since the cataclysmic divorce I suffered. Other than that, the moments when I have made use with good effect of my skills as an auditor have been spontaneous and what I've done has been so absent of "I" that although I can see the result I've in no way fixated a person's attention on myself. Such conduct is the instruction from scripture.

    And if it's all "bollocks" to you so let it be.

    I do have a couple questions should you be so kind as to respond...

    How long were you on staff? What was your post? Did you spend any time in the chair as an auditor?

    What ideas and beliefs would you not consider bollocks?
     
    RogerB likes this.
  17. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I never mentioned Dean Wilbur in the post reply,

    what are your views of classical rhetoric?
     
  18. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    you should, ever hear of Boolean Logic.

    It applies to Hubbard, namely no clears or OT's.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_algebra
     
  19. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    OK, I'll answer your questions - not that it will make the slightest difference to your mindset I'm sure.

    About three or four years on and off.

    I started as a test marker and ended up as Tech Sec.

    I was an HGC auditor (class IV) for most of my time in the org. I was also chosen by the powers that be to go to Saint Hill and be on the first Standard Dianetics course under Gilbert Black who was sent from Flag by Hubbard to run it. I also did the HDG (Dianetic Graduate) course so I could C/S Dianetic pc's folders.

    If an idea has been verified scientifically I'm more likely to give it credence than I am to what I now know are the words of a con man and shyster.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  20. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well, again I don't usually hold forth on things of which I know little.

    But...

    I suppose I think it's dangerous particularly if it's good. It can be used to distract the mind and circumvent the heart; condemn the valorous and exalt the villainous and even if proffered to just and noble ends it still tends to obscure that which it praises.

    And yes, the use of rhetoric in DMSMH is egregious leaning off to odious and at times rather noxious particularly those passages relating to abortion which are, to say the least, distinctly pre-feminist.

    And yet I don't begrudge Hubbard his rhetoric excess. DMSMH is no bestseller without the rhetoric much less the "publishing phenomenon" it became and it's substance remains compelling