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Is there anything from Scientology you have found useful?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by michaelangelo, Jan 25, 2009.

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  1. i used to know something about neibuhr but i forget...

    i admired him, i do recall that...
     
  2. i would shoulda coulda been back east by now but i'm hung up in SF...
     
  3. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    You kill me Birdie. As I see things, you seem to possess such a strange distorted view of reality. That's fine, to each his own. I will present a different view based on a different set of facts.

    About aliens and UFOs.

    Something had been building up since the 1940s. WWII War fighter pilots reported seeing strange crafts and lights in the sky, often closely on their wingtips! These were called Foo Fighters. In the late 1940s, the first waves of UFOs were spotted over the mountains of Washington state by Air Force pilots. In the early 1950s were the first UFO crashes (Roswell, etc.). In the 1960s, the first large amounts of reports of sightings & abductions began, with many books appearing in the late 1960s and early 1970s about such things. I am not saying that what were being described were UFOs or aliens, BUT the IDEA was seeping into the consciousness of modern man. All of this created a great momentum, and it had NOTHING to do with Hubbard.

    As a kid I was an AVID sci-fi reader. I gobbled up Heinlein, Van Vogt, Asimov, etc. I would get various magazines that promoted and offered the best of the Sci-Fi. Interestingly, there was NEVER a mention of Hubbard. I know - the SPs blocked his brilliance from being acknowledged! (Sarcasm)

    I read all of the EE Doc Smith books, the Triplanetary series and the Lensman series (which were written in the 1930s and 1940s). I remember reading Hubbard talking in some lecture and he said that "the actual whole track space opera was not unlike what Smith described in these books". By the way, Smith's books were FAR earlier than Hubbard's re-packaged "whole track" sci-fi crapola (fiction presented as spiritual truth).

    So, there was MUCH going on that had little or NOTHING to do with the big blow-hard Hubbard who tried to get others to imagine that he was somehow so influential and important.

    It was a sort of Zeitgeist, this increasing awareness of aliens and UFOs. Spielberg and Lucas, being true visionaries (which Hubbard was not), felt and channeled these strong undercurrents that were running through the lower recesses of human consciousness, and so were born Close Encounters of the Third Kind and Star Wars.

    Now sure, someone familiar ONLY with Hubbard's fiction (including the goofy Scientology space opera presented as fact) could mistakenly think that Hubbard was some great strong influence on the times. But, the truth is that compared to al of these other factors and forces, he was nearly non-existent in the minds and thoughts of the majority of the people of Earth. But Scientologists often have a very shallow and incomplete view and understanding of things because they are so insulated and segregated from OTHER FACTS.

    Also, the Church of Scientology PR machine, based on exact policies written by the Hubbard thingie, has waged a relentless battle on the minds of members to view Hubbard as an amazing contributor in so many fields (when he never was). Ron the Photographer, Ron the Adventurer, Ron the Humanitarian, Ron the Philosopher, and on and on ad nauseum.

    :puke2:

    Just like his incredibly deceitful biography, that is largely made up of exaggerations, embellishments and even pure fabrications, so are ALL of these other imaginary areas of Hubbard's influence and contribution.

    Hubbard WAS a fiction writer. That is what he excelled at. Much of Scientology is similarly a fiction. And almost all of the ideas surrounding his value and worth to Mankind are also FICTIONS. But, Scientology indoctrination is strong and effective. You often parrot their standard PR lies. :confused2:
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2013
  4. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Just a small, tiny nit: Hubbard never "excelled" at fiction writing. He was somewhat successful (if he does say so himself) but he never excelled at it. When people speak of the "greats" of science fiction from that era, they speak of Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, Ray Bradbury, "E.E." Doc Smith, Phillip K. Dick, A.E.van Vogt, Arthur Clark, a few others. Those writers truly excelled. Their books are still remembered as classics. Nothing of Hubbard's is considered in that league. Nothing.

    And it wasn't because of Scientology and "SPs", it was because his fiction just wasn't that great. I've read much of it and nothing stands out. It was all bubble-gum stuff. Good for a fun read but when you're done, nothing memorable.

    Bill
     
  5. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I used the wrong word. Creating fiction is largely WHAT he did - before and during Scientology. He just made shit up. I never meant to imply that he "did it overly well". But, spewing out fiction was primarily his modus operandi.

    I don't think that he did it so very well, though he DID create a very effective machine for MIND CONTROL. THAT was his most "workable" technology.

    And, yes, of course, he hasn't been recognized by the majority of Earth people and institutions, because his contributions never achieved any great value or lasting merit. Naturally, Hubbard apologists will assert/claim/promote otherwise. :duh:
     
  6. ron...

    came up with many very bad ideas; e.g. barley water is better than breastfeeding

    he came up with some very strange things; e.g. history of man

    and the dude was a WALKING YAK FESTIVAL who produced a voluminous amount of voluminousness

    i guess he just had a pick the peanuts out of my shit attitude man


    call me an apologist if you like but there's some mighty fancy peanuts in those stinky turds


    i gotta go, see y'all monday
     
  7. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron



    That was my favorite line from The Master, when the son, in disbelief of the swooning crowd says to the writer "don't they know he's making this stuff up?"
     
  8. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Is there anything from Scientology I have found useful?

    ​YES.















    Leaving.
     
  9. AnonSunshine

    AnonSunshine Patron with Honors

    Yes.
    To find out that David Miscavige is the boss and the worst squirrel alive. :duh:
    To learn how he uses the money donated to $cientology to his own benefit with no checks and balances to no one. :omg:

    To see how corrupted he is, and the worst enemy of the human race. :shock:
    To leave for good. :yes:
     
  10. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Normal person: Scientology really is a shit sandwich.
    Apologist: Yes, but look at this sandwich I have! Toasted rye! Emmentaler cheese! Grilled onions! Hmmm? Look at all those tasty things! Just look at how wonderful it is!!!
    Normal person: It's a shit sandwich.

    Bill

    (Birdy: You can find all the peanuts you can think of - from much better sources than Hubbard's shit)
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2013
  11. clamicide

    clamicide Gold Meritorious Patron

    and, Ronald McDonald is one of the most recognizable faces/people of our time... sad, but true. I might have had a point with that, but I lost it.:p

    Most people I talk to have no idea who the fuck Balzac is, but I still think he's an amazing read... and when I DO run into someone who is acquainted and wants to chat? Nice day.

    Hubs... well, how many freaking commercials has the cult put out, and so folks DO know who he was. In fact, there was a joke on the old show "Designing Women" to that effect... they were playing along with Jeopardy or whatever, and a quip came up how one of them answered with Hubs, and it was denigrated by something to the effect that they played commercials almost every 30 seconds....

    I have made it a point since going back to school to try to work into speeches and such thought reform and cults (wanted all those hours of research to also help with other things). Oddly, other people who have had NO contact with Scio have also taken on the topic (glad to see them do it), and Scientology has always come up. Every single time. So yeah, LRH will be recognized, but from strictly an anecdotal view... he's being recognized as a cult leader. boom shakka lakka (yeah, no idea why I did that).
     
  12. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    He is far from my fave sci fi writer, but I actually think some of his books were more than just average. Some were pretty well written. I also have a soft spot for pulps- whether written by Hub or anyone else. Some kewl shit came out o' the pulp era.

    He occasionally hit the nail on the head. Again, I'd not describe him as an A lister, but some of his stuff? Not too shabby.

    'Course I'm no sci fi buff, really. I like some of it but prefer high fantasy or urban fantasy (if not written by most female writers who want to devolve into paranormal romance- eccch!!! Ewwww!!!). But if I were gonna pick an author, maybe Vernor Vinge...
     
  13. Idle Morgue

    Idle Morgue Gold Meritorious Patron


    If you had spent $$$,$$$ and got jacked around like everyone does in Scientology today, I wonder how much you would love your whins?
     
  14. Then Kim Kardashian has Hubbard beat.

    Knowing the name and having an influence in philosophy are two different things.

    The Anabaptist Jacques
     
  15. Reinhold Niebuhr was OK.

    Mostly a religious social critic.

    But I am talking about the real influential ones: Nietzsche, Heidegger, Wittgenstein, Sartre, de Beauvoir, Russell, Quine, Rorty, Arendt, Foucault and Derrida.

    Right now in Western Society, Foucault is probably the most influential.

    My favorite is Aladair MacIntyre.

    Believe me, Hubbard is not in the same ballpark with any of these; not in influence nor in ideas.

    Hubbard is at best a pop psychologist.

    At worst he is a religious Nietzschean.

    The Anabaptist Jacques
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2013
  16. churchy, i think auditing and auditor training are good things

    but...

    the best thing i got out of CoS was my hindquaters...
     
  17. i hear ya !M...

    i left over getting jacked around. i'm tight with the bill of rights and i never drank the koolaid. like many, i learned much and left

    and back in the day CoS didn't crush reg donation, they sold and delivered services...

    you got screwed by people who appear no longer able to understand and apply tech and policy. except for their worst policies...
     
  18. "those people that you mention, yes i know them, they're quite lame

    i had to rearrange their faces and give them all another name..."

    b. dylan


    yeh, yeh, yeh, those dudes are all much more influential in the ivy covered halls of academe

    and...

    with nitzkie you get adolph so you got a good case for the old valkyrie as the most influential on not of the 20th century but he is of the 19th

    emile coue and norman vincent peale are "pop"

    ron is all over the place

    but...

    when his cylinders are clickin' he is BIG TIME!!!

    exteriorization f'crissakes...

    no esoteric teacher in history has ever made ext/w/perception so available to so many
     
  19. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Well, truth be told, there was nothing the old boy was really good at - except as a con man exploiting others. He did pretty good at that.
     
  20. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    And, Niezche was certifiably insane * locked away in the nut house.

    Just think how many lives would be so muchg better off has old Tubby boy been locked away wat back when he was running around Hollywood with a towel wrapped around his head or even earlier when the Navy knew he was so kooky he chasing phantom subs ?

    Ah, the world would have been a better place without that one fouling a little of it up as he did.

    Hubbards mark on history will to be soon forgotten.