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Janis Gillham-Grady

Discussion in 'Mike Rinders Blog' started by RSS Feed, Dec 23, 2018.

  1. RSS Feed

    RSS Feed RSS Feeder Bot

    There is a new post up at the Mike Rinder's Blog

    Janis Gillham-Grady

    One of my oldest and dearest friends, Janis appeared on The Aftermath last week to help shed light on the life and disappearance of Shelly Miscavige. Her fantastic, almost photographic memory is a treasure that should not be taken for granted. And she has put her gift to excellent use in the two books she has […]

    Continue reading...
    Type4_PTS likes this.
  2. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Scientology has a new class of SP...

    Screen Shot 2018-12-23 at 11.17.49 AM.jpg
  3. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Oh, really? So now Scientology suddenly loves law enforcement? LOL

    An outstanding showcase demonstrating:



    WHAT SCIENTOLOGY HATES: The FBI that raided them, the Justice Department that prosecuted & imprisoned them, Interpol and all the other branches of law enforcement. Hubbard took special delight in denouncing federal agents as "solid clusters" and confidently stating that one can find more vice amongst vice cops than any other conceivable place.​
    WHAT SCIENTOLOGY LOVES: Law enforcement, especially when it "debunks" their sworn enemies.​

    WHAT SCIENTOLOGY HATES: Psychs. All psychs anywhere, doing anything and/or doing nothing.​
    WHAT SCIENTOLOGY LOVES: Psychs, especially when their sworn enemies (e.g. Paulette Cooper) are driven into the care & custody of psychs running insane asylums. ​

    Imagine if a corrupt psych had been paid off to opine in their professional opinion that Leah Remini was clinically and criminally insane and should be institutionalized for her own safety and the safety of others. Does anyone doubt that "psychs" would have been (momentarily) hailed as the humanitarian heroes deserving of the "Freedom Medal of Honor" just before receiving the Nobel Peace Prize?
  4. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I was referring to the over the top characterization of Leah as Jason in Friday the 13th.

    It isn't enough that there is a long list of imagined or real enemies such as psychiatry, SMERSH, Interpol, the FBI big pharma, etc. Now Scientologists are supposed to buy into the "positioning" that Leah should be equated to an indestructible bogeyman. Their lawyer actually thinks making a public statement like this that will be viewed by millions is effective and rational? We know everything their lawyers say in a written statement like this is most certainly approved by Miscavige so in effect Miscavige just told us he perceives Leah as Jason.

    Things must be getting very surreal behind the scenes.
  5. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    I understood what you meant, I thought it was a great point!

    That's how cults roll. When they can't actually deliver the miracles they promised, they instead deliver miraculous movie metaphors:

    Our critics are sooooooooo evil, they're like, like,
    like, like, like, ummmm, like---Hannibal Lecter!

    Really? Do you have any proof of that?

    Absolutely! Like totally!


    And, obviously you haven't seen the movie,
    you really need to do your due diligence!


    Type4_PTS and TheOriginalBigBlue like this.
  6. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Imagining doing the Positioning Survey to come up with "Jason from Friday the 13th".

    What evil Hollywood movie icon is most representative of someone who relentlessly exposes Scientology abuse?

    Positioning takes advantage of a fact that one can compare the thing he is trying to get the other person to understand with desirable or undesirable objects… one can position above a familiar object, with a familiar object, below a familiar object, at, to, against and away from a familiar object. This opens the door to an opportunity to establish an opinion of the thing one is seeking to communicate. You might call it an ‘instant’ opinion.
    “For example, we know that an astronaut is a familiar, highly regarded being. Thus, we position a product above, with, below, at, to, against or away from an astronaut.” — LRH
    HelluvaHoax! and Enthetan like this.
  7. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't even know what that "Jason from Friday the 13th" statement means but I assume "Friday the 13th" is the name of a movie - probably a horror movie. I can't even be bothered to look it up but my point is I would assume there are many people like me who have no idea what this law firm is talking about therefore they have just made themselves look slightly ridiculous.
    TheOriginalBigBlue likes this.
  8. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    I am reading her second book - it's a good read. Well worth buying if you want to know more about Hubbard, and his life on the ship. I just read her observation, where she makes the point no facts got in the way of his belief of the rightness of his actions. More amazing - she never had any desire to do the upper bridge because none of the OTs including LRH ever displayed any OT behavior.

    Type4_PTS and Operating DB like this.
  9. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes, easy to Google. But exactly as you point out, the law firm looks ridiculous. I have to think that these are essentially Miscavige's statements being fed through the lawyers verbatim, probably against their better judgement. For a lawyer to try to portray Leah as Jason is extremely unprofessional and smacks of the kind of desperation that comes from someone taking up some serious ideal org caliber real estate in your head.

    This is understandable if you consider that "Shelly", as a subject, is a silver bullet that can destroy Miscavige and all of Scientology instantly.

    As an aside, much of the statements being made by the organization make me think of Scientology PR as being an "acceptable truth". For example, if you sentence your wife to a version of house arrest then technically she isn't missing because you know exactly where she is.
  10. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    In Aftermath S02E02 Valerie Haney explains that Shelly was essentially sent into exile because she made changes to the org board in order to protect people from David. I think this is a very important point. Others had said this happened when she made these changes while David was in LA but it was never really clear what it was about the changes that would cause such a reaction.

    People should understand that this is actually a fairly common situation in the Sea Org. We are very much into loyalty, camaraderie and as a senior to take care of and be responsible for the people under you. After a while, even though cognitive dissonance doesn't permit you to define or express it well, you begin to instinctively try to protect the people under you from the organization itself. This happens at all levels. Your juniors are getting ripped off and transferred. subjected to heavy ethics, denied full pay and what they need to not live in degraded conditions, their family time and leave time is institutionally denied, good people are blowing and routing out, etc.

    David must have instantly recognized that this is what she was doing - protecting the organization from him and therefore she had defined him as the problem.
    lotus likes this.
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I think the Sea Org is the Crowd that Hubbard created since he read Le Bon. The other crowd are scientologists, and the other crowds are future scientologists as per instructions in the OEC, FEBC, all books, and all lectures and any written material to persuade. But the elite of the elite of the crowd are Sea Org members.

    This vid explains it pretty well. Of note is the 5 minute mark.

    Of course, the goal of the SO is to get ethics in, which really means to get people to accept scientology, and thus to go clear and the OT, which we have discovered no clears or OT's exist, but we fell for the cause.

    CaliMule likes this.
  12. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    I read the "Look inside" on Amazon for her 1st book and while interesting it seemed the book was not well written. She jumped from one recollection to another. No cohesive narrative. I was often left wondering "what happened next" after she recounted an incident. Is the 2nd book similarly written?
  13. CaliMule

    CaliMule Work Hard and Bray

    Personally, I would say that up at least through the mid-70s there were instances where I felt it is credible to say "this is an instance of evidence that perhaps Scientology is a method of achieving what it claims", if imperfectly. I met people who did upper levels early on who really did manage to show me something beyond what materialist skeptics say about the nature of reality. As one rolls into the late 70s and then up to the mid-80s death of LRH, one basically sees that rarely and much more weakly - perhaps tracking the rise of the "watch dogs" closely. By the time of the 90s and the great IRS victory, I think you could get as much spiritual advancement by associating with Scientology as you could from ordering a Big Mac at McDonalds.

    I've read LeBon and see the point you are making, though I consider it strained to conclude LRH simply adopted anyone else's group dynamics theory. I believe LRH craved prestige so desperately that even internally he would never allow himself to think he was merely copying or following the mind of any other person, great academic or not. He craved prestige even in his own self-imagery that only he might know of, I believe, and would never let himself think of himself as a mere follower of another's mind. Perhaps one can sum that up "narcissists will be narcissitic."
  14. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    They are both the same - memoirs if you please, and have no plot, just a largely in-sequence telling of her life on the ship, cruising from port to port, relating incidents that occurred both at sea and in the various foreign countries they set anchor at. They are written as a record of the history of her life in the sea org on the ship, rather than what you are looking for.

    They are a massive undertaking, since there are 3 volumes awash with data from the trivial to the insightful observations of his moods, behavior. In the books, we find Hubbard as one character among many, not the main subject per se. Were it a book about Hubbard, MSH and the sea org - a vast amount would have been shorn. I think they are valuable for what they are, but they are not a dissection of Hubbard et al.

    Whatever pearls of insight about Hubbard are sprinkled here and there amidst the day to day bricabrac of his daily life.

    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
    CaliMule likes this.
  15. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    I like to think of Scientology's organizational structure as a "Black Friday" paradigm. That's the nickname given to the "busiest shopping day of the year" when bargain-starved shoppers line up outside big-box stores ALL NIGHT IN THE FREEZING COLD to get in the doors the nanosecond they are opened the next morning.

    Invariably, riotous conditions ensue. Violent fights break out over limited-supply flat screen TVs, viral must-have toys and anything else they can get their hands on. People get hurt, badly in many cases. Assaults and hatred consume the avaricious shoppers as they literally STAMPEDE over each other to "get theirs".

    The key feature is the STAMPEDE. That well defines the management philosophy of Scientology's senior spiritual leaders. They will trample over anyone for any reason to "get theirs".

    Hubbard and Miscavige were the most vicious sociopaths of all so they "rose above" the others.

    Scientologists aspire to be like them.

    It's a modern science of mental health. LOL
  16. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Where I am at in the book now, (about 50% though) involves the ship, her mom Yvonne Jentzsch's approach to running her organization vs. Hubbard and co's approach in the early 70s, the time when I was on the BC at ASHO on temple. I would read the OODs from Flag, they were posted almost daily, with fascination - they were posted in a staff room adjacent to the BC and cramming. It is a section of her book that illuminates what was going on behind the scene then that I find most interesting. She also corrects a section of Lawrence Wright's book about the New Years Eve orgy on the ship, tells of her friendship with Mike Heron of the Incredible String Band who was an FCCI on the ship at the time.

    The book is a good read for anyone interested in that era.

    CaliMule likes this.
  17. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    In S03E05 at 32:40 talking with Tom DeVocht the idea that Shelly might be waiting for LRH to return is brought up as a reason why she might stay there.

    But my sense is that she is motivated as much if not more by a loyalty to the people working under her. This isn’t a contradiction because Hubbard ingrained the idea that as an executive or leader it was your responsibility to take good care of your juniors and by virtue of those being Sea Org crew you were also serving Hubbard.

    But his is where your Black Friday analogy comes in. In order to be a good leader in the Sea Org you can’t really have compassion. Just like in a real war you must be willing to accept casualties. You must be willing to give orders that, as in war, in principle could get your juniors killed. But in a real war there is a reasonable expectation that the war and it’s resulting sacrifices and casualties are for a good cause and are unavoidable. The nation’s freedom is at stake and by risking your life you hope to protect the people you love. All too often the leaders of countries and the military make grave mistakes or are literally insane but the military itself is an essential institution. It isn’t created as a mistake or out of insanity. It might be expanded and it’s mission perverted but it’s original intent is sensible. This isn’t the case with the Sea Org. It’s creator was always motivated by a lust for power, greed, narcissism, paranoia and self preservation. It’s one thing to toughen up the troops in boot camp but it is another to break their will by making the organization itself an impossible obstruction to progress. Insanity is built into the DNA of the Sea Org so that only people who can find a way to coexist with the insanity can remain, and only those people could be trusted by Hubbard.

    For many years after I left the Sea Org I had dreams about going back. The central theme was always the same - finding my way there, trying to help the people there, explaining to them that I couldn’t stay, and then finding my way out. Even after several years of reading everything there is to read my conclusion is that I was suffering from some kind of survivor’s guilt. We talk about PTSD a lot but as a specific subject survivor’s guilt doesn’t get much attention. Listening to Bill Franks' interviews with Jeffrey Augustine my sense is that he was struggling with something like this. He expressed that he wanted to reform the organization. I hoped he would explain what that meant in more detail. He said he wanted to get the prices down which I think we can agree was a major reason for contraction because Scientology was successful as a grass roots movement and escalating prices redefined it as an elitist movement. But having been RPFed repeatedly I'm sure he also wanted to reform the institutionalized abuse.

    From what I am hearing about Shelly my sense is that she sincerely cares about the crew and if David were out of the picture she would try to reform it much like Bill Franks. I had similar notions while on staff and so did other people in senior positions. I think Terri and Gale wanted the best for the crew. Gale worked on the child care problem but I think like the rest of us it was never Hubbard’s intention to make that possible and I think he consistently obstructed them and denied them the resources or authority to make a difference.

    He was a master at compartmentalizing the flow of information within the organization so we had a difficult time recognizing him and the organization itself as the problem and he conjured up emergencies and enemies to deflect attention from himself. Evals and programs could blame something or someone else but never reflect on the flaws of Hubbard or the organization in a way that traced back to Hubbard resulting in real solutions. Eventually we each in our own way realize that things will never change and those with enough remaining free will leave. You try to sort it out but only after realizing that it was this way by design do you come to any useful conclusion.

    Shelly’s situation is different though. There is a chance that if she hangs on and Dave is no longer in control then she really can help all those people even if it means converting all the assets into some kind of retirement fund.

    Leah Remini - Scientology and the Aftermath - S03E05 - Where is Shelly?
  18. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Good post! A credible scenario.

    I once gave a moment's thought to what Shelly thinks she is doing within Scientology and instantly concluded that she does not conceive herself to be under any kind of restricted movement or incarceration.

    Then I gave another two seconds consideration to "WHAT WAS SHELLY'S R-FACTOR?" before she journeyed off of Scientology's front lines and into her virtual "nobody knows where I am" Bluebird Motorhome mode. That was a really simple thing to figure out.

    Had I been COB I would have simply "briefed" her on a scenario where it was a TOP SECRET PROTECTIVE MECHANISM that came from LRH himself, wherein Scientology had to be protected from suppressive governmental agencies that were trying to destroy it. That's how and why there are so many dozens of different incorporations and legal entities within Scientology (IAS, RTC, CMO, COS, et al).

    Shelly would be informed that there were plans afoot to attack the church's non-profit status and demand billions in tax fraud reparations, effectively eviscerating the church's financial, legal and corporate resources---and forcing it to close its doors.

    However. . .

    Shelly would be a key player in protecting all that Ron and the Sea Org had fought so valiantly for---in order to help the planet achieve a world without war, insanity and criminality.

    Shelly would be "in charge" of a protective (but secret to all Scientologists) corporate entity that would be so off line, so "fabian", so brilliantly conceived---that even if all the other dozens of corporate entities were "shattered" by evil enemies, this Shelly-run entity would survive the nuclear destruction and emerge with all the tech under a different banner.

    What a glorious, noble and romantically humanitarian role for Scientology's first lady!!!

    Shelly can save the planet too!

    "Oh my goodness, thank you Dave", Shelly tearfully exclaimed, "I had always hoped and prayed and postulated that you would flow power to me like this and allow me the honor of helping you and Ron to salvage this sector! I cannot thank you enough"

    With that Shelly and her modestly sized suitcase of all MEST possessions would then be stealthily brought to her new hiding places. Plural, not just one.

    In this way, Shelly would take a HUGE WIN on the fact that no WOG and no SCIENTOLOGIST could ever, ever, ever learn what she was really doing, where she was or what she knew.

    That "briefing" by COB would have taken about 30-45 minutes, and a VVGIs Shelly would have been routed off his lines for eternity, and he would not even be a minute late for his evening scotch session.

    CULTS: They are stupid. They are insane. But they are that way because the leader makes cult members stupid and insane. That is the whole point.
    Operating DB likes this.
  19. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    no, you do not see what I am saying and I doubt you read Le Bon's books, maybe you can quote on Le Bon's chapter of what a leader of crowds uses to become a leader.

    Hubbard used the principles of Le Bon's works to create a crowd or cult or organization known as scientology, and that is why Le Bon's works are dangerous in the hands of a madman.

    Personally, I know many OT8's, they are just normal humans who believe in the tech, just like somebody who would believe in God or Jesus or Muhammad or whatever, to solve their problems.
  20. CaliMule

    CaliMule Work Hard and Bray

    " The crowd that obeys a leader is under the influence of his prestige, and its submission is not dictated by any sentiment of interest or gratitude.¶ In consequence the leader endowed with sufficient prestige wields almost absolute power. The immense influence exerted during a long series of years, thanks to his prestige . . . "" THE CROWD A STUDY OF THE POPULAR MIND BY GUSTAVE LE BON

    Indeed, that I continued to discuss the "prestige" concept in further discussing Hubbard is merely one way my comments sought to continue discussion of LeBon's notions. At least so I thought, but if I wasn't clear, okay. Perhaps we simply have very different conclusions about what LeBon suggested is true.

    I don't necessarily agree that LeBon's works were empircally validated, and indeed came to read LeBon originally because of criticisms in other works of LeBon's failure to be empirically validated, such as for instance in failing to account for the rise and conduct of the Berkeley "Free Speech" movement in its initial crowd sourcing.

    I agree with you that these modern OT VIIIs don't really show anything special compared to the usual human. That doesn't mean something more impressive never existed. Whether you choose to believe me or not, up through about the mid-70s I was seeing people doing higher levels who often showed me signs of potential evidence that they did have somethng beyond usual human ability. It wasn't evidence of the sort of certainty or probative value that I would write a scathing rebuttal to the world about doubting supernatural aspects of human life, but it wasn't nothing either.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018