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justaguy's (silly) questions thread

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by justaguy, May 12, 2009.

  1. justaguy

    justaguy Patron Meritorious

    Fluffy, thanks.

    Now I have a question, and I suspect that not many people know the answer to it. Someone who used to be high up would.

    Who or what group is ultimately responsible for declaring someone an SP? Who (or which group) is the one who orders it?

    Related question:
    Has anyone here ever had to deliver an SP declare to someone, or pass it down the chain? Who gave it to you? Did they authorize it, or did it go higher up?

    edit: question answered in chat. justice comitees can declare someone SP (and a few others), and the IJC is ultimately responsible for any decisions. The IJC is under DM's thumb.

    edit edit: I stand corrected.
    Last edited: May 31, 2009
  2. dt2000

    dt2000 Patron with Honors

    The final approval of an SP declare is not IJC. It is AVC International (Authorization, Verification and Correction). AVC Int is in RTC. No one can be declared without that approval.
  3. JackStraw

    JackStraw Silver Meritorious Patron

    To go back to "Why thursday at 2:00?" I give you

    HCOPL 15 April 1982R
    Issue II
    Revised 30 Oct 2000

    Finance Series 23
    The Counting of Gross Income

    MGMT Series Vol. 3 The PL starts on page 489, the answer is on page 490,
    2/3 of the way down the page:

    "Why 1400 hours Thursday?

    "I instituted this at London Org in the 50s. Friday was too late for their Advisory Council to act on the just ended week's statistics, and get the gears rolling for the new week as the weekend (and the Foundation org) was right upon them.

    "By meeting on Thursday they could put their plans into motion Friday and get started. 1400 hours was the chosen cutoff point to enable them to meet that evening."

    Gads, can you tell I was a supe?!!

  4. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    I think that's entirely true, Laura, but I also have observed that different divisions and execs in CofS drive the expulsion. Meaning, if you piss off someone who's in a position to get you expelled, then AVC will expell you.

    In my case, it was OSA that ordered my expulsion a year after I'd walked away.
  5. Penguin

    Penguin Patron

    justaguy, sorry to borrow your topic, but I have a silly question that doesn't really merit a topic of it's own.

    What is a a 2D?

    I usually read these posts with Clambake's definitions open, in case I forget that FSM does not stand for Flying Spaghetti Monster. But this is one that's not on the list. Out-2D is, and I gather it has something to do with a significant other type person, but what does it really mean?

    Also, has the terminology changed over the years? It seems that some of the language the newer... escapees(?) uses is different than than words I've heard the older ex-scns use.
  6. Tiger Lily

    Tiger Lily Gold Meritorious Patron

    What a fun thread!

    2D stands for second dynamic -- the urge to survive through sex and children. Your 2D is basically the person you are having sex with. . . or your life partner/spouse. I've never heard of it referred to in relation to children.


    p.s. here's a description of the 8 dynamics
  7. Penguin

    Penguin Patron

    Thanks Tiger Lily!

    That actually doesn't sound too far away from Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Maslow doesn't specifically include sex or progeny but I'd be willing to bet that's sort of implicitly implied in the love/belonging group.
  8. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Yes, but only technically. It was an "automatic declare". I had the privilege of getting papers signed & delivering the check to Ray Kemp in settlement for his lawsuit with the Co$ over the Orange County Mission. I don't recall the details but cashing the check amounted to an "automatic declare". The GO were the ultimate arbiters in that cycle.

    I was the junior HCO guy at the mission then and thus assigned the job. GOLA had signed off on it and sent the required papers. When I got back to the mission after seeing Ray I found two guys from the GO waiting. They had come down to do the deed themselves. They were surprised to find it completed already with all the appropriate forms properly filled out & signed.

    Ray Kemp's last words to me were that I'd understand in time. I never saw him again, but within the year I was out and knew what he had meant.

    There were a couple of other minor mission refund cycles that came up also while I was on staff there. Nothing as interesting. Just individuals who wanted minor sums returned for various - and not particularly suppressive - reasons.

    The ones I dealt with were mostly happy with the scientology services they had had but either needed a refund on advance services for some financial reason, or wanted a partial refund for some particular service where they felt they hadn't received what they were promised. They were often a bit puzzled over the "significance" associated with their refund requests.

    [n.b. To my mind the Co$ craziness concerning refund policy is one of the single biggest causes of BAD public relations throughout church history. No doubt the insanity stems from LRH's considerations about money.]

    None of those amounts were significant, unlike the Kemp cycle. The individuals however wound up with declares in addition to their refunds. Those came from our local HES as I recall, but she no doubt had to inform GOLA about them.

    Mark A. Baker
  9. Penguin

    Penguin Patron

    Sorry... one more silly question...

    Who audits DM? I mean, he does that, right? I'm kind of assuming he's the highest level there is which would, to me anyway, would suggest there was some time spent with an auditor. Is there a file on him? Who has access to it? Did LRH get audited... and again, same questions.
  10. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor


    Davey couldn't even fly ruds

  11. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Actually, the general rumor has been for many years he doesn't. I don't have any personal knowledge one way or the other. Refugees from INT over the years have dropped "hints" about such things.

    I'd be willing to bet, however, that whatever the status of his auditing his folders are FILLED with major unhandled "red flags". Not necessarily the "fault" of the tech staff either. :omg:

    Mark A. Baker
  12. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Don't be silly. David Miscavige's PC Folders are *full* of VGI and marvelous cogs :)

  13. Penguin

    Penguin Patron

    Is that typical as you get higher up?

    Granted most of the stories I've read have been from people who wanted to leave situations they weren't satisfied with anymore (to put it mildly), and because of the financial or ethics situations, weren't able to get auditing anymore. So in that case, it kind of seems it's something that happens less frequently. But... that surely wouldn't be the same thing with some of the very upper echelons, would it?
  14. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Anyone willing to audit David Miscavige would have to be suicidal. I hear that's a non-survival trait, but, hell.

    Scientology is non-survival

  15. justaguy

    justaguy Patron Meritorious

    penguin: my thread is open to anyone who wishes to ask possibly silly questions. :yes::yes:

    I drove past my local org yesterday to convince myself that it really existed (it was disturbing to see it there, really disturbing). Anyways, I saw help wanted sign posted on the front.

    So... what would scientology hire wogs to do? Would they pay them? Would they post a help wanted sign but not actually hire any wogs? It doesn't seem like an independent contractor thing.

    I was very confused. Can anyone enlighten me?
  16. Tiger Lily

    Tiger Lily Gold Meritorious Patron

    They won't be wogs for long :bwahaha: :devil:

  17. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    There are many posts a green Scio could do with minimum training, provided they speak the language. They wouldn't be able to do them well, but knowing Scn is not always a pre-requisite. Hopefully they would get better in time. Pay? Comparable to most of the other staff (i.e. little).

  18. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Be wary of Zinj's answers. Get some others too. It's not so much that he doesn't know, despite not being an ex, but that his nuances aren't so useful to a newbie needing a straight answer.

  19. CornPie

    CornPie Patron Meritorious

    Dulloldfart: Are you possibly more concerned in your post #78:
    . About Zinjfar, a never-scientologist, posting here on the ex-scientologist message board.
    Than you are in your post #77 (which refers to 75 and 76):
    . Where filthy-scientology places a deceptive "help wanted" sign in their window, visible to the public, which is clearly intended to suck naive public into the cult? If they legitimately wanted, a "green scio", as you say, they could have placed the sign inside the building, where it would be visible only to their existing members. But scientology is not legitimate, they're s***.

    I wonder if you're really an "ex" scientologist either, Dulloldfart.
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2009
  20. dt2000

    dt2000 Patron with Honors

    Very true. Although behind the scenes, the bottom line is OSA cannot expel you unless AVC approves it. AVC is part of RTC. Endless amounts of paperwork and a nice big CSW are done to get the approval for any declare or expulsion. Even if WDC or someone "higher up" than OSA orders the declare, if AVC doesn't approve it, it doesn't happen. I've seen it happen many many times.

    I would say the only one/s that have influence over AVC are those higher than them in RTC - ie. if DM ordered it, it would happen without all the paperwork most likely :eyeroll: