Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
So it's a made up thing. By non Scientologists. 'Nuff said.
justaguy's (silly) questions thread
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Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
I think that's a non issue. She's the child of two major wealthy celebs who are not in the Sea Org. She's no more likely to join the SO than Juliette Lewis or Lisa Marie Presley was.
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
Glutz PR is an old term, I believe but has been usurped and is used in CofS.
Hubbard wrote about it in the PR series.
In layman terms it goes something like this; you're attempting to improve your PR image but in the attempt include something that tarnishes it at the same time.
Simplified Example;
We've gotten rid of all the SPs who used to control our Church right up to last week.
Example;
Interviewer: Do you approve of overboarding?
Glutz: We've handled that now, it's no longer used except in the most extreme cases. It's a religious ritual.
The Glutz aspect is that in an attempt to improve PR he's admitting to the out-PR scene.
Hubbard wrote about it in the PR series.
In layman terms it goes something like this; you're attempting to improve your PR image but in the attempt include something that tarnishes it at the same time.
Simplified Example;
We've gotten rid of all the SPs who used to control our Church right up to last week.
Example;
Interviewer: Do you approve of overboarding?
Glutz: We've handled that now, it's no longer used except in the most extreme cases. It's a religious ritual.
The Glutz aspect is that in an attempt to improve PR he's admitting to the out-PR scene.
justaguy
Patron Meritorious
2 things.
I hear people say you're not allowed to talk about your case. Where is the hubbard reference for this? What was the justification for this?
Also, you hear people say alot that reading entheta will mess up your case. Where's the hubbard reference/justification for this? What's the reasoning behind it?
The ultimate effect of these two policies is to create a more cult-like atmosphere, and I'm curious as to how they came about.
I hear people say you're not allowed to talk about your case. Where is the hubbard reference for this? What was the justification for this?
Also, you hear people say alot that reading entheta will mess up your case. Where's the hubbard reference/justification for this? What's the reasoning behind it?
The ultimate effect of these two policies is to create a more cult-like atmosphere, and I'm curious as to how they came about.
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
The second one is well covered in Science of Survival, in that entheta will tend to enturbulate theta. Case talk ... I think the justification for the rule was that it can lead to inval and eval. Pc hat? The real reason for both must be to stop people communicating bad things about the cult to each other and thus realizing that it is not just them "at fault."
Paul
justaguy
Patron Meritorious
Dulloldfart: that makes sense.
For some reason I'm brimming with questions for the ex community today, but I'm going to take it one at a time.
First off: When I first started lurking, I read everything on this forum voraciously. I especially went to the "my story in scientology section" and read pretty much everything in there, even the stuff that was years old.
So for those of you like me who weren't here from the beginning, did you do the same thing? Do a lot of people do that?
I guess I'm trying to figure out how much some of the "older" (less recently posted) stories make a difference. They certainly made a difference for me.
For some reason I'm brimming with questions for the ex community today, but I'm going to take it one at a time.
First off: When I first started lurking, I read everything on this forum voraciously. I especially went to the "my story in scientology section" and read pretty much everything in there, even the stuff that was years old.
So for those of you like me who weren't here from the beginning, did you do the same thing? Do a lot of people do that?
I guess I'm trying to figure out how much some of the "older" (less recently posted) stories make a difference. They certainly made a difference for me.
I don't think that's the *only* 'real reason'. A related one is one I've mentioned before here on ESMB and that ESMB is a specific cure for; the prohibition against 'verbal tech'.
And, that's one of the true wonders of Scientology and the brilliance of Ron.
Ya see, Scientology is selling these tin cookie tins. Closed up and labeled with such things as 'Theta' and 'Clear' and 'OT' and everybody gets them (even if they're not yet 'Clear' or 'OT' themselves. They get the *concepts*. But, what do they actually get? A cookie tin with a label. A 'mystery sandwich', which they can't compare or discuss with anyone else. So, everybody gets to 'mock up' what *they* understand under the concepts, but nobody gets to compare notes about what's actually *his* own comprehension of the concept.
But, for everyone, since it's a Personal Mock Up and *his* concept, he's invested in it. It's 'true for him'. So, he *knows* it's good. And, he'll defend it with his life and soul and bank account.
But, nobody gets to *compare* what *other* people believe they have in their cookie tins, so, everybody gets to think everybody's got the same cracker-jacks toy.
Until they get to a place like ESMB where the cookie tins get opened and we find that some have a fire truck; some a cat poop; some a pony and, some a little personal note from Ron saying.... 'Gotcha sucker!'
Zinj
justaguy
Patron Meritorious
Another question:
I read Feral's letter he sent out last christmas again, and he mentions that C/S series 73RB contradicts 6 month sec checks.
I'm about to go on a digging spree through wikileaks to find material for when I get out there and do something about the cult.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to where, besides the C/S series, might be a good place to start to find contradictions like this?
I read Feral's letter he sent out last christmas again, and he mentions that C/S series 73RB contradicts 6 month sec checks.
I'm about to go on a digging spree through wikileaks to find material for when I get out there and do something about the cult.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to where, besides the C/S series, might be a good place to start to find contradictions like this?
justaguy
Patron Meritorious
I have more questions!
First the stupid one: Did anybody here ever drink kool-aid at a scientology event? I'm going to be super obvious and ask: did you drink the kool-aid scientology gave you?
Other one: is actually the last question I asked. Can staff use the 1-866-xseaorg number? Does anybody know how I can find out?
First the stupid one: Did anybody here ever drink kool-aid at a scientology event? I'm going to be super obvious and ask: did you drink the kool-aid scientology gave you?
Other one: is actually the last question I asked. Can staff use the 1-866-xseaorg number? Does anybody know how I can find out?
skollie
Silver Meritorious Patron
I too am curious about this. Are phones with outside lines accessible to SO staff? I'd assume that "disenchanted" members would probably be in/on the RPF and have no access to phones.
My guess is that most would use the number after escaping and nowhere to turn to. It would be good to know how many have actually used the number to get out.
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
From what I hear, it depends on which SO place they're at. That's my impression from reading Chuck Beatty's posts.
FinallyFree
Gold Meritorious Patron
I "drank the kool-aid" at scn events all the time - nothing in them. free food is a big lure for anyone so that is used to get people to events (I worked on those scn international events).
Dunno on the xso line - not trying to be a smart ass, but why don't you call and ask? As a general rule staff have more freedoms than SO. I personally think, as an ex staff member, a different avenue needs to be taken with staff - for instance, rather than a "help you get out" line; how about a "help you get info on what's really going on" phone line. Information packets could be prepared containing some info that would at least get these people on staff asking the right questions.
Promo for this line could include:
"What if your church is lying to you?"
"What if the signs you see at protests are telling the truth?"
"What if the rumors you have been hearing about your church are correct?"
"A million (or whatever conservative numebr is more accurate) Ex-scientologists can't be wrong can they?"
Call the 1-800-for-true
Something like that.....
Tiger Lily
Gold Meritorious Patron
I drank it -- but I guess you already knew that about me justaguy 
But here's the thing . . . I remember thinking they were "over the top" but they had convinced me of how bad it was to be "downtone" and I didn't want to be that. . . so I "waxed enthusiastic" (another great LRH term) in order to show then how "uptone" I was, and how I was worthy of the lofty title of "Scientologist".
Ever heard the phrase "willing suspension of disbelief"? That's a skill I mastered during those years. The human mind can make itself believe just about anything.
-TL
But here's the thing . . . I remember thinking they were "over the top" but they had convinced me of how bad it was to be "downtone" and I didn't want to be that. . . so I "waxed enthusiastic" (another great LRH term) in order to show then how "uptone" I was, and how I was worthy of the lofty title of "Scientologist".
Ever heard the phrase "willing suspension of disbelief"? That's a skill I mastered during those years. The human mind can make itself believe just about anything.
-TL
justaguy
Patron Meritorious
This question is not very silly.
How much of scientology's sucesses, do you think, have been due to their aggressive courting of celebrities? Do you now anyone who (directly,indirectly) came to scientology because of a celebrity? I.e. anyone who went "oh, tom cruise is into scientology? what's that? i'll go check it out" and then got hooked.
so that's really two questions.
Anyways, I'm really curious about this one.
How much of scientology's sucesses, do you think, have been due to their aggressive courting of celebrities? Do you now anyone who (directly,indirectly) came to scientology because of a celebrity? I.e. anyone who went "oh, tom cruise is into scientology? what's that? i'll go check it out" and then got hooked.
so that's really two questions.
Anyways, I'm really curious about this one.
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