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Kha Khans - the derail thread on the Saints of Independent $cientology

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Certain of the most exciting state-of-the-art and emerging technologies (early cancer diagnostics, volumetric 3D imaging, spectroscopy & OCT) seem to be able to produce entirely new values when played one against each other, in concert and/or overlaid. Once perfected and adjusted for clinical use, it will make "blood flow studies" seem like ye olde country doctor's most high-tech diagnostic device--the stethoscope. lol

Yeah, I thought it was cool drilling holes in rat skulls, inserting electrodes, and watching their brains respond to cocaine back in the late 80s / early 90s. But today's imaging techniques can get at much of the same information on a wider scale, and without the probe sticking out of your head. :omg:
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Good point, Leland. I had missed all the years she spent there. Sara arrived at Parsons house when she was 16. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Northrup_Hollister

That also puts a different spin on things. Parsons might have been a pseudo-daddy figure, and she'd already been sexually abused by her step-father. Might have been misplaced anger, misplaced love confused with sex confused with father figure stuff.

Pretty yucky stuff. :puke2: Both she and Helen had it tough back then.

Hubbard's role may have been much bigger than we imagined, too. What you say about him "taking" Parsons' prize from him makes sense.
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
Please....I hardly think a teenager who had grown up in a very dysfunctional home such as hers, with a stepfather who had sexually abused her at age 10, and a sister and brother-in-law who would take her out of that environment into the OTO world, would know much of or appreciate much such boundaries. We don't know how many other women Parsons slept with before he got to her while he was married to her sister. We only know that the resultant environment became a bizarre sex injected cult.

I get you Mary, but remember it was the 30s - 40s. It was a totally different world to ours.

Even my grandmother said they were the bad old days and life was pretty tough. Step out of line and the whole world crashed down on you. Then you were marked for life. Just the way it was. Just about everyone knew it too.

My grandmother's divorce in 1929 and brought her a whole world of pain, she even had to leave town and leave her young son behind. The other women treated her the worst.

Nearly everyone knew of a person in their neighbourhood that was whispered about and openly discriminated (or even persecuted) against. That was all OK to do back then. Now it is pretty much (or close to) criminal behaviour.

I am not blaming Sara for her behaviour, as Sheila points out there are too many factors to consider that we don't even know about. Merely pointing out that she most likely would have known the trouble she could have brought upon herself.

I agree that children living amongst wayward adults is never a good idea either. Maybe she never had many choices, I don't know. Maybe she had nowhere else to go? Nobody got much help back then. Once you were fucked up, well, good luck to you. There was only punishment for stepping off that narrow line basically.

It's taking a long time for Queen Victoria's belief systems to die. It still lives in many first world countries and most third world ones.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Sara Hubbard - Willful, Wanton or Misunderstood

I dunno. The more I hear about what a bad girl she was, the more besotted with her I become. :coolwink:
 
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JustSheila

Crusader
This is interesting:

. In June 1951, she finally secured the return of Alexis by agreeing to cancel her receivership action and divorce suit in California in return for a divorce 'guaranteed by L. Ron Hubbard'. In return, she signed a statement, evidently written by Hubbard himself, retracting the allegations that she had made against him:
I, Sara Northrup Hubbard, do hereby state that the things I have said about L. Ron Hubbard in courts and the public prints have been grossly exaggerated or entirely false.
I have not at any time believed otherwise than that L. Ron Hubbard is a fine and brilliant man.
I make this statement of my own free will for I have begun to realize that what I have done may have injured the science of Dianetics, which in my studied opinion may be the only hope of sanity in future generations.
I was under enormous stress and my advisers insisted it was necessary for me to carry through an action as I have done.
There is no other reason for this statement than my own wish to make atonement for the damage I may have done. In the future I wish to lead a quiet and orderly existence with my little girl far away from the enturbulating influences which have ruined my marriage.
Sara Northrup Hubbard.[SUP][47][/SUP]
Interviewed more than 35 years later, Sara stated that she had signed the statement because "I thought by doing so he would leave me and Alexis alone. It was horrible. I just wanted to be free of him!"[SUP][48][/SUP]

and

In June 1986, following Hubbard's death, the Church of Scientology and Alexis agreed a financial settlement under which she was compelled not to write or speak on the subject of L. Ron Hubbard and her relationship to him. An attempt was made to have her sign an affidavit stating that she was in fact the daughter of L. Ron Hubbard's first son, L. Ron Hubbard, Jr.[SUP][62][/SUP]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Northrup_Hollister

I wonder who arranged that financial settlement, Jesse Prince? Marty Rathbun?

It seems Hubbard has been involved with silence agreements for a very, very long time.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Maybe we can get this thread re-titled Sara Hubbard - Willful, Wanton or Misunderstood and make a separate one about Kha Khan Phenomena On the Forum?

Just a thought :biggrin:
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
I'm sorry if I derailed, but I came in up to page 5 and replied.

I hadn't yet seen the thread had moved on... But I thought I needed to make a point.

For me, that is now done....

:carryon:

EDIT: Remember part of what got all this started was Sara and Alan Walters, so I guess we all wanted to get that aired as well.
 

eldritch cuckoo

brainslugged reptilian
Yeah, I thought it was cool drilling holes in rat skulls, inserting electrodes, and watching their brains respond to cocaine back in the late 80s / early 90s. But today's imaging techniques can get at much of the same information on a wider scale, and without the probe sticking out of your head. :omg:


attachment.php



[video=vimeo;21825074]http://vimeo.com/21825074[/video]​
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Since Udarnik has pretty much taken one for the team in this thread, by diving headfirst into the shark tank, maybe I can do my bit by raising something really obnoxious.

Two kinds of people are confident: the highly competent, and the highly incompetent. The second case is called the Dunning-Kruger effect. So in the context of spiritual growth or whatever, I'm afraid one always has to consider:

It is in principle possible that some of those who claim lofty altitude do so because they are dumb.

I don't mean to imply that everyone who thinks they've got moral stature or spiritual wisdom or whatever is necessarily dumb, or that anyone such in particular is. But if you're trying to assess someone's ideas, it's a possibility you have to take seriously, that maybe they are touting their ideas so highly because they are incompetent. Even if it's your own ideas you're assessing. Unless you're dumb, that is.

Don't think Udarnik has taken one for the team and have no
idea what team you refer to.

Alan was highly competent. Scn
attracted many stellar personalities and Alan outshone most.
He was the most outstanding disseminator of the subject and
made mucho bucks doing so. I gather he was a successful
athelete which I know little about. He did the briefing course twice
and was a research auditor for Hubbard. He per his words created
some of the key elements of Scn processing. I've not seen anyone
even try to refute that.
 
M

Moderator 3

Guest
Maybe we can get this thread re-titled Sara Hubbard - Willful, Wanton or Misunderstood and make a separate one about Kha Khan Phenomena On the Forum?

Just a thought :biggrin:
Nah, let's just leave it. It's not like derails are anything unusual around here. :)

I'm waiting for the obvious follow-up (once we're done with skewering Indies and Freezone types);

Kha Khans - the derail thread on the Sainted Critics of $cientology

Oh, wait! We already had that derail fifty times! :biggrin:
 

Leland

Crusader
Thanks for filling the blanks, Just Sheila.

That Sara spent 5 years at Parson's OTO house....prior to meeting HubTub around 1945 at age 21.....I'm sure she must have already had some pretty strong ideas about things. And some must have been OTO ideas..

Sara and Hub Tub divorced in June 1951.

I was shocked to read in Sara's Wikipedia page....that she helped Lcon to write the dianetics book. LaFatty had bought a dictaphone machine....and Sara did all the transcribing.

So....Sara really is the only person....that was around at that time. (this is all different from the Cult's story or LaFatty's story of that time.)

Sara's Wiki page has some great stuff....including that she had wanted to do some "magical experiments" with Hubbard.....and that she writes that he was a "Captain" (in the Navy)...of course, he was not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Northrup_Hollister
 

Terril park

Sponsor
The Peter Principle:



In the cult people tend to make rapid jumps in promotion based on whims, so I would imagine that one would have to demote many people (e.g. Tommy Davis?) by more than a few levels to get them to the level of barely incompetent. :omg:

Not so. At least not so always. The general pattern is to promote
those with the best stats. In a class V org this may involve promoting
the least incompetant. Usually from the more active senior posts. It
had another benefit that women had an equal chance of promotion.

Can't speak about higher orgs but believe its also so.

I gather Tommy Davis and wife left and the shore story was
cancer for his wife. Wasn't OK to say he didn't want to work with DM again.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Don't think Udarnik has taken one for the team and have no
idea what team you refer to.

Alan was highly competent. Scn
attracted many stellar personalities and Alan outshone most.
He was the most outstanding disseminator of the subject and
made mucho bucks doing so. I gather he was a successful
athelete which I know little about. He did the briefing course twice
and was a research auditor for Hubbard. He per his words created
some of the key elements of Scn processing. I've not seen anyone
even try to refute that.



I think SOT was referring to the team of rational, non-tech people. In other words....non-fools. But SOT can confirm this, or not.

Funny, or typical that you brag of Alan making a lot of money "disseminating the subject." Well bless his lil ol heart.

And you brag that he helped create key elements if Scientology. LOL....

Oh man....:duh:
 
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Terril park

Sponsor
Yeah, strat, me too. Met Alan in that '62-63 era. When we met it was instant buddy buddy, one of those this-incarnation meeting of old friends. I had a similar relationship with John McMaster.

You were on the 1962 experimental briefing course?
Want to say more?
 

Leland

Crusader
Hubbard and Sara divorced in June of 1951. Sara was 27 and they had been married 5 or 6 years?


Hubbard started a relationship with Mary Sue..in March of 1952. Mary Sue was 21 at that time...and HubTub was 41.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Do the mods love or hate you, AnonyMary? :biggrin:

(Just teasing. Really. :hug:)

lol! I don't know.... yet :wink2:

Frankly, I would just like to see the thread back to Udarnik's discussion of Alan and the remainder of those he named, who he feels have an apparent Kha Khan status on the forum. However, I will leave that up to him/her.

I promise, Udarnik, I will not respond to anything else here unrelated to the above
I-Promise.jpg
 

JustSheila

Crusader
:thumbsup: Yeh, Leland, I saw that too and wondered how much of Dianetics was actually Sara's, after all?

This may be an unpopular idea, but WAS Sara the one who got Tubby started on petty theft and then con-artist stuff originally? (see her Wiki page) Could she have been behind the ship theft plot? Did Tubby really come back drunk from a party and the relationship started when he found her naked in his bed? Were the two of them together like two people whose worst characteristics gelled at that time under Parsons and Crowley's directions to "Do as Thou Wilt" and they put all loyalties, ethics and morals aside?

Note that Sara, like many since, claimed Hubbard hypnotized her.

But Sara turned it all around and stayed with her second husband the rest of her life and raised a family while Hubbard went deeper and deeper into his cult thing.

Sara fascinates me. I really don't know what to think of her.

ADDED:

lol! I don't know.... yet :wink2:

Frankly, I would just like to see the thread back to Udarnik's discussion of Alan and the remainder of those he named, who he feels have an apparent Kha Khan status on the forum. However, I will leave that up to him/her.

I promise, Udarnik, I will not respond to anything else here unrelated to the above

Ahh, AnonyMary. I'll shut up now and let you get on with it, then. :)
 
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