ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Ladybird, Ladybird

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by olska, Jan 6, 2008.

  1. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    I figured that thread title would get the attention of the people who are interested in this, but for others who just happened by…

    There’s a discussion going on at a.r.s. that brings up some possibly serious concerns for people who post to this board. Go read it at

    Apparently someone discovered by mining IP addresses on OCMB that “Ladybird” (currently banned from OCMB) also posted as “CJK.” Of course, another way to “figure out” that “Ladybird” was posting under the nic “CJK” was by noting that CJK’s POST WAS SIGNED “LADYBIRD.”

    In the discussion referenced above it is rumored that one current project is to discover what nic “Ladybird” is using to post over here at ESMB. This task was probably inspired by this comment from “Ladybird” on the lermanet board in this thread:

    where "Ladybird" writes:

    I do have an account on Itsa/Emmas ESMB. She would never guess it was me.

    Again, rather than “mining IP addresses,” one could simply read the posts! While it may be quite possible for an internet-savvy person to disguise an IP address, it’s not so easy to disguise core personality traits which make that person’s “new identity” pretty obvious.

    Hi, “Ladybird.” :wave: Are those covers keeping you nice and warm this winter?
  2. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball


    My guess is that you are Ladybird Olska!

  3. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Probably not a bad guess. Nobody else seems to give a flying fuck who 'Ladybird' is.

    Well, maybe not 'nobody', but not enough to matter.

  4. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    Very funny! :D
  5. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    Good luck reading one more tangled web of waffle on ARS.

    Well- someone ALLEGED that this was done - that doesn't make it fact. As you say, the fact that "CJK" signed the post as "Ladybird" may have been the bigger giveaway.

    so far, a rumor and an allegation. Hmm.

    Does it really matter? It all sounds like something that would really sound proper at a high school cafeteria.
  6. Headend

    Headend Patron with Honors

    Oh how the plot thickens. :melodramatic:

    Even more conspiracy theory's, will you bottom feeders ever stop.:duh:
  7. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    It has been alleged on ARS that Ladybird was Antidote.

    I find that interesting considering certain things Antidote posted.

    I don't think Ladybird or anyone else has to have an account here to read the posts here. I know for a fact LB reads the posts here. She's reposted at least two on Arnie's board in the last four weeks.

    If she does have a posting ID here, I doubt she uses it much. We all know how she gets and what she says at times. I think you'd be able to tell...
  8. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    Just for the record:

    There is no mining of IP addresses. Ladybird was signing posts she made using the CJK account. You don't need to be involved in nefarious activities to have worked that out.

    This is just an attempt to get back at me for personal reasons.

    I hope nobody really takes this seriously.

    Judging by the tremendous support I've received over this from various sections of the "community" the damage is minimal but it still concerns me.

    If any of you have any serious concerns about this I want to hear about them. I'm not afraid to answer your questions. I'd rather lay it all on the table.
  9. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    My only concern would be that you don't fall into the 'dogpile' trap. If you feel there's something you need to say, do so, but, not in the hope of a 'fair hearing'. Here, ARS and even #altrelgionscientology are not courts of law, and, the people who are attacking you couldn't care less about 'rules of evidence'. For every question you answer and for every accusation you refute, there will be 10 more. Trying to keep up is just falling into the trap. However, I can guarantee you that nothing infuriates them more than sanguine keeping on with what you're doing. They spit and drool and demand and demonstrate to anyone watching what it's really about.

    Have fun with it :)
    Sticks and stones might break your bones, but, they're impotent except for vicious words.

  10. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

  11. Mojo

    Mojo Silver Meritorious Patron

    With all due respect Emma, allegations of a scientology-op manipulating the owner/moderator of an ex-scientology message board is justifiably serious from some points of view. At least to outsiders looking in. Think thousands.

    I followed the entire ARS thread and notwithstanding a few moments of (justifiable) emotional reactions, your overall response was remarkably poised. Far more poise than I could have mustered given the insinuative content of your attackers posts. Kudos to you.

    Here are my questions:

    #1. After you left the church of scientology did you ever find yourself working on behalf of the church of scientology (consequential to blackmail or elsewise)? There was much ado about something about your secretly providing the OSA/RTC/COS with information about critics a few years back. If such was true, can you explain what happened and why? Patty implies you did so to get back in good graces with the church. Seemingly you've already confessed to such actions (though not for such reasons). What is the truth?

    #2. If the church was really blackmailing you back then, what has happened since then that has rendered such blackmail powerless over you?

    #2a: If you were really trying to get back on the bridge back then, what has happened since then that has rendered such a desire powerless over you?

    It, if true, was one or the other. Either blackmail or a desire to go back. Provided you actually did what you are accused of having done (secretly providing information to the church of scientology about ex's or critics).

    #3. Do you consider yourself to be a scientologist? Or an ex-scientologist? or an independent scientologist?, or a free-zone scientologist?, or none of the above? Surely you can appreciate the validity of such a question being asked of the owner of a board such as this. Not of the participants but of the owner/moderator. Andreas is clear. Arnie is clear. Wenlock is clear. Pardon the puns. As my father used to say: are you in or are you out (or somewhere inbetween)?
  12. Mojo

    Mojo Silver Meritorious Patron

    Finally, proof that Hubbard (or Vinaire) was right. You have become what you started out protesting against Zinj.

    "For every question you answer and for every accusation you refute, there will be 10 more". Zinjifar.

    Sounds like Hubbard to the core. And of all persons originating it, you. Lol.

    Stop the questions! There'll be no end! "Trying to keep up is just falling into the trap". Ignoring the questions is the road to Total Freedom!

    Hubbard and Vinaire (and now Zinj) were right.


    Though somewhere Hubbard is laughing.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  13. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Nah, that's not it.

    The attempt to scare people away from the Internet, and Internet forums, is years old. And the game of endless accusations to which someone is to (also) endlessly respond is an old tactic.

    The only thing "sad" is that Scientology's "dirty tricks" tactics and "tech" - even though they've been fairly well described over the years - are still not understood by some. You need to do your homework on this part of the "tech," Mojo.
  14. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    You really ought to read Emma's posts.

    And to me all that noise is just another attempt to divert attention from the real issues.

    And a waste of time. :duh:
  15. namaste

    namaste Silver Meritorious Patron


    FTS gets it. :thumbsup:
  16. Kerry

    Kerry Patron with Honors

    Hi Emma,

    What a long days' journey...

    It is all on a.r.s., and I agree it would be a waste of time going into it here. And agree with Zinj re 'sanguine'.

    I'm totally happy for you to have my IP and email address -- and have been since 2002. Roan, too, for that matter.

  17. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    Sorry Moje but you are about as wrong (on this subject) as it is possible to get.

    There is no point in anyone getting involved with people who throw out accusations.

    There is no way to verify either the accusations or the denials or the rebuttals. Which makes it a colossal waste of anyone's time to try.

    This (ESMB) is a message board set up by Emma. Either you like what goes on here and feel like joining in - or you don't. It has nothing to do with Emma's personal and private history, it's just a message board. You and I either ike to talk or we don't. It's pretty simple.

    It's a message board for ex-Scientologists - all of us who are ex-Scientologists are going to have our own little bits of history. But that has NOTHING to do with YOU.

    I do not OWE you, or anyone else, any explanations. Neither does Emma. If I spend my spare hours rogering barnyard fowl with a prize winning leek that's my business - not yours.

    The effort to try and embroil people in personal discussion is a waste of time. As has been pointed out to you.

    To try and deflect that by claiming some sort of "hubbardian" skew is merely to compound the error you have made.

    You made a public fool of yourself.
  18. jodie

    jodie Patron with Honors

    No concerns at all, Em. You and a few others here know how much I trust you. Completely. End of story.

    This is all just a lot of hot air designed to distract away from what you and we are successfully doing here, so I for one am not going to give it any further attention. I understand your need to field the questions, but you can get stuck in an endless thing - it is *designed* to drain your energy, consume your attention, rob you of your vitality and energy. Keep you awake at night, and on an adrenaline rush. Deprive you of sleep.

    So my humble suggestion would be to deal with those you want to deal with, and then move on. A whole bunch of people trust you Em, and you are doing GREAT work, which is precisely why these type of attacks start cropping up.

    So much has come to light, that when the dust has settled, we will all see things much more clearly. My absolute "win" (sorry, cult-speak) is to see Tom K. finally wake up and realise how he was used as a pawn in the reverend's self-serving game. At last.

    So, a lot has unravelled, but in the meantime, all this proves is that you are really having a good effect, which is why both some critics and osa really want to derail it. Let's not let them.

    Love you, hon.

    - jodie

    PS - If I don't post or visit for a while, it is because I am really busy IRL, so I tend to visit and post in spates. Thats no reflection of anything other than the fact that I have limited time to give to the Net.
  19. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Excellent posts Mick and Jodie! Well said, totally agree.
  20. Headend

    Headend Patron with Honors

    Mick, Jodie & the majority of posts here have made some really good points. Great to see so much support for Emma & the forum.

    I let Emma know when this first began, that the ones who launch this type of personal attack, usually end up doing their own credibility more harm than their intended victim. It's nice to be right sometimes. :happydance: