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Livestreaming now..from Scientology Commuity Center LA - Vaccines

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Smurf, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    Scientology CCHR Director about vaccines and mass genocide among the Black community.

    Scientology CCHR Director, World Literacy Crusade International Ambassador and Youth For Human Rights Award Winner Rizza Islam provides the truth about vaccines and the agenda to commit mass genocide among the Black community, as well as the fact the CDC says Black lives don't matter.





    For Rizza Islam's qualifications as a Scientology CCHR Director, World Literacy Crusade International Ambassador and Youth For Human Rights Award Winner, please see this thread:
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2015
  2. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

  3. JackStraw

    JackStraw Silver Meritorious Patron

  4. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    The Anti-Vaccination Movement Is Working with the Nation of Islam to Scare Black Families.

    Jezebel: The Anti-Vaccination Movement Is Working with the Nation of Islam to Scare Black Families

    * * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *

    The Anti-Vaccination Movement Is Working with the Nation of Islam to Scare Black Families.

    Anna Merlan

    Today 10:10am Filed to: ANTI-VACCINATION MOVEMENT

    It was October 2015, and a crowd of thousands were gathered on Washington D.C.’s National Mall, where Minister Tony Muhammad of the Nation of Islam claimed to be uncovering a conspiracy. In front of a throng gathered for the anniversary of the Million Man March, he accused the federal government of systematically poisoning black and Latinx children.

    “It has been brought to our attention,” he thundered, “that the senior lead scientist for the Center for Disease Control has admitted that the MMR vaccines and many of the vaccine shots have been genetically modified to attack black and Latino boys.”

    He paused for effect.

    “I don’t think you heard me,” he told his audience. “We are living in a wicked time, where we’re dealing with a spiritual wickedness in high places!”

    Muhammad likened vaccinations to Pharaoh killing the sons of the children of Israel. “Now they’re trying to force vaccines on baby boys—at least 80 shots before they’re three years old.” He urged his audience of thousands to march on the CDC in Atlanta. “We’re going to say, ‘Not another Tuskegee on our watch!’” he roared. “We’ll be damned if we’re going to sit around and let someone else pump us up full of viruses!”

    There’s no evidence whatsoever that the CDC is systematically poisoning black and Latino boys. It’s no mystery where Muhammad got that sentiment. He heard it, he told the crowd, from the scion of one of the most influential political families in American history: the famous environmental activist and vaccine skeptic Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

    In the summer of 2015, Kennedy enlisted the help of the Nation of Islam, a black separatist organization, in his years-long campaign to convince Americans that vaccines cause autism. According to several reports, Kennedy wanted to encourage black families to consider not vaccinating their children, based on a debunked claim that a mercury-based preservative in vaccines causes autism. At the time, Kennedy was trying to stop SB 277, a California bill which eliminated a personal-belief exemption that some parents had used to avoid vaccinating their kids. In April, in promoting an anti-vaccine movie called Trace Amounts, Kennedy referred to vaccine injuries as “a holocaust.”

    Kennedy and the Nation of Islam didn’t succeed in opposing SB 277, but the relationship between the Nation of Islam and anti-vaccine groups has only grown. It’s one of the strangest political alliances in America—and one that, if it’s effective, could have serious public health consequences.

    This is an exciting time for the American anti-vaccine movement: Before taking office, the president repeatedly tweeted that vaccines cause autism. (There’s an enormous body of evidence proving that’s not true, including a 2014 meta-analysis that looked at studies involving over one million children.) The lead proponent of that claim is Andrew Wakefield, the former gastroenterologist who was the lead author on a 1998 study linking the MMR vaccine and autism. During the election, Wakefield reportedly claimed to have met privately with Trump and then endorsed him, although he’s British and was unable to vote in the U.S. While we don’t have confirmation that meeting took place, Wakefield did attend an inaugural ball held in Trump’s honor, in January.

    * * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
  5. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    Good presentation there.

    A little over a year ago, my grandson contracted whooping cough which very nearly killed him (he was about 4-5 months old).

    He had received his first set of vaccinations, but was not fully protected when he got it and he was too young for the second set. It was a pretty bad month or two with him.

    The doctors later told his mother she should have had been vaccinated whilst she was pregnant, to which she said that no one had told her that she was supposed to. Not even her doctors!

    She is pro vaccination (always has been) and when she voiced this on her FB page the vitriol came thick and fast. Some of the worst shit came from her cousin and his wife who are rabidly anti vaccination.

    She got the lot. She should be shot, hope the little one dies, unbelievable crap. People can be such arseholes. Got to a point she actually disconnected herself from that part of her family to protect themselves. They were friendly to her face, but online was a very different story.

    Sounds like this anti vaccination movement is a cult within itself with a heaping helping of cognitive dissonance thrown in as well.

    I'm old enough to remember seeing the tail end of the polio victims and those who had to live in their iron lungs. As a kid, that scared the crap out of me then.
    Even if the autism risk (**coff coff**, crap,crap) was true, I would think that would be the least of your worries.
  6. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    You are sounding like Marty Rathbun and his Anti-Scientology Cult rants.

    The fact is that people have different opinions and some people are more vociferous than others.

    I'm not a member of any "anti vaccination movement" but if I was asked for advice I would advise not to get vaccinated.

    I have never been vaccinated, even as a child, and I am a fit and healthy and have never had major health issues. In fact I don't even know who my doctor is. I haven't seen him in 20, maybe 30 years.

    I even smoked cigarettes for 30 years and I remember the packets containing the lie: "Smoking Kills". I just ignored it.

    Sometimes a person has to go with their own gut instinct and not listen to so-called "experts".
  7. Francois Tremblay

    Francois Tremblay Patron with Honors

    And that's exactly what a cultist would say! (just kidding)

    You are not a cultist if you have opinions or do whatever you want. You are a cultist if you follow a cult.
    I have not studied anti-vaccination movement to figure out if it's a cult or not. The word cult is bandied about a lot. While I have found that there can be such a thing as a social movement that is a cult, it's pretty rare. Most of the time, it's just a bunch of really disturbed individuals out to do their enemies in at all costs, even at the cost of children's lives. They are sad and should be stopped, because honestly peddling anti-vaccination propaganda is basically the equivalent of being accessory to murder, but they are probably not a cult.
  8. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    The most ill-judged statement I have ever read on esmb.
  9. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron

    The resurgence of formerly eradicated diseases in the United States is directly attributable to the lunacy of RFK Jr., theNOI, and whacko Scientologists who discourage vaccination of their children.
    The germ theory of disease, despite what the Scientologists and NOI morons believe, exists.

    You don't get sick because you're PTS, and it's not a genocidal plot, you idiots!

    Over time, vaccines lose their effectiveness, but when entire populations have been vaccinated, for all intents and purposes, eradication of diseases like Polio, etc. has been achieved.
    This past year there were outbreaks, across various college campuses, of Measles, apparently as a consequence of non-immunized foreign students being admitted.

    I had Measles as a child, before a vaccine was created, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. For a parent not to immunize their children is to expose them, and others, to diseases that we have long thought eradicated.

    unfortunately there's no vaccine yet for stupidity.
  10. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    No man, I am not saying anything about someone having an opinion.

    Those antis actually targeted my daughter and said her son should die and that she was shit for holding her opinion along with launching a smear campaign against her. That to me said they were nasty pieces of shit for what they were doing. Like a good little scientologist would do.

    That your experiences and opinions differ is fine to me, I'm holding nothing against you there for that. Only those who hold psychotic rabid belief systems and find it justifiable to attack others for believing differently.

    Bear in mind though, I wonder how many people said they would rather risk measles, smallpox, and all those other pleasant little strolls in the park or just get vaccinated.

    Would you go to those African (among others) countries and not take your Malaria prevention?

    You were quite lucky though. I smoked for some years and I got first stage emphysema from it. I quit in 93. It doesn't go away.

    My grandma smoked pot for 90 years and drank a quart of moonshine a day and lived to be 128. Among 90% of the rest of the world's population too, I might add.

    Okay, I made that bit up, but do you see my point?

    Now I must ask, why would you be against vaccinating a child?
  11. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    I agree that those who attack other people for their beliefs are completely wrong to do so. My point was that there is no absolute right or wrong on this subject, there are only opinions. Some people are vociferous and attack others (see some of the replies to my previous post) whereas others, like myself, simply state opposite views.

    I totally understand your points that some people get ill and some don't. That is why I don't get involved in this subject normally, other than to state my view, which should be just as valid as anyone else's.

    Your final question is one I hesitate to answer because it is personal to me but by putting it here it will obviously generate more attacks. Suffice to say I'm not telling anyone not to have children vaccinated unless they know me personally and ask for my opinion. It doesn't concern me what anyone else does. As I said previously, I'm not a member of any movement or cult.
  12. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP
    Lots of falsehoods and misrepresentations in this article. A few of them:

    1) Robert F. Kennedy Jr is not "anti-vax". All six of his children were vaccinated, however he is for safe (and effective) vaccines. He's pro-science, not anti-vaccine. His primary focus has been on the complete removal of mercury in all vaccines, both here in the U.S. and elsewhere. For whatever reason, the mainstream media has portrayed a number of people who bring up safety issues as anti-vax when its not true.
    Tony Muhammad has different views and does not speak for RFK JR.

    If anyone wishes to know what Kennedy's actual views are they're on his website:

    2) The author of the article referred to a "so-called CDC cover-up". For her to characterize it in this way would either be ignorant or she's just acting as a shill for the vaccine industry. A senior scientist at CDC was recorded (by another federal employee) exposing some pretty shocking stuff, and has been given official federal whistleblower status. For anyone who doubts whether there was a real cover-up or the significance of it I highly recommend listening to the scientist directly which is available in the movie Vaxxed and probably elsewhere on the internet.

    3) The author repeated a common mantra within the media (and CDC) that any connection between mercury and autism has been debunked. However, that's not true within the scientific community. :no:

    Many respected scientists don't agree with that; James Lyons-Weiler PhD, who has read ALL the research on autism (thousands of papers), going back 50 years, would be one of them.

    I would recommend anyone look deeper into the safety and efficacy of vaccines themselves and not just buy into the propaganda . It's not a black and white issue where vaccines = good, or vaccines = evil. Just because some vaccines are good and have saved lives decades ago doesn't mean that ALL vaccines are good or that their benefits outweigh their risks. That's not any more logical than ALL prescription drugs are good because some are and have saved lives in the past.

    Realize that much of the research funding and marketing of the vaccines comes from an industry that has repeatedly acted in ways deemed criminal. Here are some examples to which I refer.

    We should be able to trust the federal agencies that regulate this industry, such as the CDC and FDA, but these agencies have tremendous conflicts of interest and sometimes it's difficult to tell whether their purpose is to protect consumers or the industries they regulate.
  13. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Your implication that Measles can be completely eradicated by vaccines or that non-vaccinated students were the cause of Measles outbreaks reflects your opinion, but scientists don't all view the situation as you described:

    Here is an excerpt of a letter from Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD, a Harvard trained immunologist:

    [Some of the formatting appears to have been screwed up when I copied and pasted the excerpt here, so you may wish to read the original, linked below]

  14. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    We do hold some similar beliefs, but on others I guess we'll agree to disagree. But that is fine too.

    Cheers mate.
  15. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    We need to talk about anti-vaxxing in black communities. The article addresses the anti-vaccination efforts of the Nation of Islam and the meeting at the Church of Scientology Community Center in Inglewood.

    This is an excellent article. Only the part relevant to Scientology and the conclusion will be excerpted. The entire article is well-worth a reading in full.

    NOTE: The author has been notified via Twitter of the excerpting of her article on this forum.

    Note: Larger font as used in original.

    AFROPUNK: We need to talk about anti-vaxxing in black communities

    By Zoé Samudzi / Black Youth Project*, AFROPUNK Contributor

    * * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *

    Minister Tony told the crowd that this information was sourced by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., a member of the Kennedy dynasty and a well-noted anti-vaxxer who President Donald Trump recently selected to chair a federal panel on vaccine safety. In addition, while fighting against the passage of California’s mandatory vaccination law SB 277 in 2015, the Nation held a town hall event at a community center owned by the Church of Scientology, highlighting the existing social and political connections between the two religious organizations.

    A major difference between monied white anti-vaxxers and anti-vaxxers within poor and working class communities of color is the differential access to medical care in the event that their unvaccinated children do get sick.

    This is particularly the case now that the Republican-dominated government is attempting to eliminate Medicaid, which would reduce access to state-run health services for children.

    There are a few reasons why the likes of Kennedy might recruit the Nation to his anti-vaxxing cause: well-founded Black fears of western biomedicine and scientific racism legitimize the claims of white anti-vaxxers whose unreliable empirics allow the majority of people to perceive them as a somewhat fringe and easily dismissible group.

    There are also convergences in the anti-vaccine and conservative pro-life politics of the likes Kennedy and Louis Farrakhan rooted in discourses around the rights and safety of racialized children. It is the same line of thought that holds the myth that Planned Parenthood clinics were created to control Black populations that also holds that vaccines are poisonous and deliberately destroying the potential of young Black men by giving them autism and other development disorders. (This is an addendum to the series of theories about whiteness’ emasculation of Black men that often quickly veers into homophobia, [trans]misogynoir, and enforcement of hegemonic masculinities à la “Dr.” Umar Johnson and others.)

    Despite people of color’s well-founded concerns about vaccinations (particularly in a country where women of color have been forcibly and unknowingly sterilized for centuries), the burden of disease outbreak because of unvaccinated children hits racialized communities hardest.

    In Minnesota, Somali-American communities have been targeted by anti-vaccination campaigners, and recent drops in community vaccination and vaccinations rates across the state have led to a measles outbreak that has exceeded the total number of reported cases in the entire United States. The mortality rate for measles is only about 0.2%, but it is a highly infectious disease that can spread rapidly within communities that have lowered collective immunity because people are not vaccinated.

    It is glaringly obvious that these white anti-vaxxers do not care about the Black communities they are deliberately misinforming with spurious data.

    They are simply exploiting the historical trauma and a frequent lack of critical health education in Black communities to peddle an anti-science politic with potentially disastrous public health implications. Our health––our children––are expendable to them.

    Although deep skepticism and critique of the government’s historical and present health interventions is warranted (e.g. I no longer get an annual flu shot because I do not have a suppressed immune system and I am wary about over-medication and over-use of antibiotics and antimicrobial/antibiotic resistance), we cannot afford for our distrust to be manipulated when our community’s health is at stake.

    * * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *

    ALSO RELEVANT: Members of the Nation of Islam are practicing the religion of Scientology

    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  16. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I'm not sure how the section I turned green is relevant to Scientology. :unsure:

    Mostly she is just shilling for the vaccine industry, misrepresenting the views of Kennedy and others, accusing them of racism and ableism (with no evidence), and more importantly, grossly misrepresenting their arguments for the positions they do take.

    The author of this article, like so many in the media, doesn't distinguish between individuals who are anti-vaccine and others who raise valid concerns about vaccine safety and efficacy (but are not anti-vaccine). All are painted with the same brush, labeled as "anti-vaxxers".
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  17. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    I included the section you turned green in order to provide the context and reasons why the Black community might not trust the medical community, and how the Nation of Islam and the Church of Scientology ruthlessly exploit such context and reasons. Indeed, outside the area of vaccines, I've seen the Church of Scientology ruthlessly exploit such context and reasons to demonize psychiatric care and psychiatrists in the Black community. The same reasoning is used in both the area of vaccines and in the area of psychiatry.
    Your statements emphasized in blue are unfair to the author of the article, not supported by the article, and are contradicted by the statements therein. The author concludes:

    * * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *

    Although deep skepticism and critique of the government’s historical and present health interventions is warranted (e.g. I no longer get an annual flu shot because I do not have a suppressed immune system and I am wary about over-medication and over-use of antibiotics and antimicrobial/antibiotic resistance), we cannot afford for our distrust to be manipulated when our community’s health is at stake.

    * * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *

    Someone who made the quoted statement, and in particular the sentence emphasized in brown, cannot fairly be characterized as a "shill" for the vaccine for the vaccine industry. Someone is not a "shill" for the vaccine industry when they make a point of saying that they do not take a recommended annual vaccine for various good reasons.

    Someone who made the quoted statement, and in particular the sentence emphasized in blue, is in fact a person who "distinguishes between those between individuals who are anti-vaccine and others who raise valid concerns about vaccine safety and efficacy (but are not anti-vaccine)." The article is in general pro-vaccine, but notes valid concerns about the medical industry and vaccines.
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  18. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Knowing what I know about the CoS, should they involve themselves with this issue I'd bet that there was an ulterior motive, and it would have nothing to do with genuinely helping the Black community. I don't know enough about Nation of Islam and their past involvement on vaccine issues to form an opinion one way or the other on this.

    But the author doesn't really show how either of those organizations does what she claims is being done, and does nothing effective imo to support the conclusions she does make. She's a PhD Sociology student but she just states her opinions; no citations from the scientific literature (either concerning her comments on vaccines or from any sociology journals).

    If her intent is to write a fair, objective, truthful article, why would she bring up the alleged financial conflicts of interest that Andrew Wakefield had which he failed to disclose when publishing his paper yet was silent on gross financial conflicts within CDC?

    Yes, she presents some valid reasons why the Black community might not trust the medical community. But if her primary concern is for the health of the Black community she's claiming that White anti-vaxxer's are threatening, then why omit any discussion of William Thompson, the CDC whistleblower (and Senior Research Scientist at CDC) whose disclosures have caused many reasonable people to question CDC's creditability on any vaccine safety issues?

    If Kennedy alerted the Black community about what was going on at CDC does that constitute exploitation? Or is it warning the community about corruption within the agency that sets the policy on our vaccine schedules on a matter that directly concerns the Black community?

    With regards to whether my comments were fair (or not) to the author, we'll have to agree to disagree.

    The CoS working hard on human rights issues for years, promoting human rights on many occasions (through their front groups) does not prove that they genuinely care about human rights. And their own record on treating even their own people clearly demonstrates just the opposite.

    Similarly, stating that one doesn't get flu shots does not prove one isn't a vaccine shill. If a person IS a shill for any industry perhaps they wish to obscure that fact. And all of the authors comments show her for what she is imo.

    I feel my accusation IS fair for the reasons stated above. And, as mentioned earlier, she grossly misrepresented the arguments of some of those "White anti-vaxxer's" she refers to.

    She says:
    She's accusing Kennedy and others of being anti-science yet she's not citing ANY scientific literature to back up her comments on vaccines. Yet Kennedy does provide links to 80 peer-reviewed papers in prestigious journals which back up his view:
    (scroll down to "Peer-Reviewed, Published Research")

    I guess though it is easier for her to play the race card (without a shred of evidence he's racist) rather than having an interview with him where she can challenge him on his arguments he's put forward (which ARE based on science).
  19. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    The Church of Scientology has stated that it does not have official position on vaccines, pro or con. I believe them. As you said, they have nothing to gain from taking a position. I believe the COS let the Nation of Islam use the Inglewood Community Center for their anti-vax meeting as a favor to the latter and to help cement the alliance.

    However, in my experience, when compared to the population as a whole individual Scientologists: (a) disproportionately believe that vaccines cause autism; and (b) are disproportionately anti-vaccine. I'm confident that percentage difference is very large, if not huge.

    Individual Scientologists are certainly well-primed by Scientology doctrine to be anti-vaccine by their inculcation in non-falisfiable conspiracy theories, anti-government rhetoric, disdain for medicine generally (e.g. Hubbard referring to medical doctors dismissively as "medicos," as well as his insistence that 70% of all illness is psychosomatic), ignorance of and disdain for science (Dianetics, anyone?; drugged BTs, etc.), the idea that it is somehow a legitimate argument if one adds the word "Big" in front of word ("Big Pharama!"), etc.

    As I noted above, pretty much any rhetorical trick or "argument" that is leveled against psychiatry (e.g., confirmation bias, the cherry picking fallacy, attack on profit motive, denigration of "Big Pharma!," etc.) can be leveled against vaccines or, eventually, all of Western medicine. I also know that a prominent woman on OT VII helped lead the charge against California's mandatory vaccination law, though she lost.

    As for the Nation of Islam, all evidence indicates that they are fighting against vaccines because they (and especially Minister Tony Muhammad, in my opinion) do, in fact, believe vaccines cause autism -- or at least causes autism among Black youth. As alluded to in the article we are discussing, any attempt to refute such arguments are, as a practical matter, successfully refuted by the invocation of a single name - "Tuskegee experiment" -- and with good reason.

    One final observation. My belief after watching the Nation of Islam / Church of Scientology alliance for years is that Minister Tony Muhammad is the Nation of Islam leader who is by far the most connected with and invested in Scientology and the alliance. He also, from my observation, the Nation of Islam leader who by far is the most invested in and vocal about the fight against vaccines. IMHO, Min. Muhammad's association with Scientology did NOT cause his war against vaccines. On the contrary, I think Scientology's relationship with Min. Muhammad caused it to host the 2015 ant-vax meeting at the Inglewood Community Center. This might be the ONE area where, instead of the Church of Scientology influencing the Nation of Islam, it is the Nation of Islam that is influencing the Church of Scientology.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  20. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Pretty much I agree with all you've said here. Scientologists are indoctrinated in such a way as to have a deep underlying distrust of medicine, at least when I was in during the 80's, and I imagine still to this day. And really, ones belief in conspiracy theories (including the story of OT III, which is a conspiracy theory) is really necessary to a large extent if one is to stay a Scientologist.

    That said, the allegation that vaccines cause autism isn't a non-falsifiable conspiracy theory but rather a matter of science, one that will be settled at some point in the future, one way or the other. Despite the media portraying this whole matter as already having been settled and repeating the mantra over and over that any connection has been "debunked", that's simply not true, nor is it seen that way within the scientific community.