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look im not planning on joining but i have a few questions due to my personal study

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by pugano, Jan 20, 2008.

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  1. pugano

    pugano New Member

    hi all. basicly this is what a major question of mine is. i am not religious and dont plan on joining or following any religion but i do study the beliefs of others.. so basicly to sum it up what is scientology ive done alot of reading and im not gonna pay money to read a book or grouping of books based on what is a cult / religion and no im not calling it a cult. anyway back to my questions.

    1. what is scientology to you
    2. what does it promise, like all religions they all say they will give you something
    3. what are the basics.
    4. what kind of recruiting tools
    5. what made you join.
    6. what made you leave.
    7. what is the the religion.
    8. to you is it a lie or is it just something your done with.


    this is nothing that will ever go past this forum i am not with a newspaper or govt agency that is looking to discredit anything im just personaly interested in what scientology is..
     
  2. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    This was posted on another thread, but it is a good description of Scientology and why people get in and get out:

    How does a group get into the minds of people who are normal, everyday citizens and intelligent beings? A cult can get you into their ranks without you even realizing it.

    The Cult provides somewhere to belong. The most intelligent, the brightest, the most sensitive and kindest people feel left out of today’s society. It is hard for an above average woman, for example, to be satisfied with a mundane job, shopping for clothes and shoes and watching television every night. While her workmates and friends talk about the latest Desperate Housewives episode, or the latest diet fad. It is difficult for an above average man to feel satisfied with his daily work routine, sports, beer, poker nights and living the rat race. They watch as from a distance, joining in only superficially, and feeling alone and left out. Different.

    Feeling different is one of the first things the cult will prey on. When someone feels different they want to fit in somewhere. They want to find a group which will make them feel at home, a group which will understand them and talk about things that matter.

    Another thing the group will focus on is making the person feel validated, important, needed and indispensable. All of the sudden the person will feel that what they are doing matters. That what they are involved in will make a difference in the world, that it will possibly not only save them but save those dear to them and possibly the world.

    The group will share a very important reality with the person. From being someone who was an outsider, finally here is a group that shares interests and a reality that the normal outsiders cannot see and cannot comprehend.

    The group will also provide stability. Now there is a schedule, plan, timetable and common goal. The group will be strong and normally be led by a mother or father figure who will tell people what to do, will tell them they are valuable and will tell them he or she loves and appreciate them.

    Another bait is Mystery. I write it with a capital M because it is not the type of mystery that will be revealed at the end of a novel, book or lecture. It is the type of Mystery which people will pay their entire fortunes to have revealed.

    The Unknown, a Mystery of this magnitude is a sentient trap. Any sentient being will be trapped by a mystery they cannot fathom. A mystery that is created to be at the same level of intelligence and analytical power as the sentient being is as powerful as iron bars in keeping people from leaving the cult.

    There is a saying that goes, “curiosity killed the cat”, this saying perfectly portrays how an intelligent being can be trapped and killed by something they feel curious about and the only things we feel curious about are the ones we are not familiar with, the things we don’t know, don’t understand or don’t see. The Mistery will only be revealed after years of loyal following, work and probably a lot of money. The nature of the Mystery is irrelevant at this point. The victim has invested so much of him or herself to find out what it is, that by the time it is revealed to him or her, it doesn't matter what it is. The person will either completely accept it as a huge and deep truth or will feel like a fool and leave the cult.

    The promise of extraordinary abilities, powers, wisdom or knowledge is another trap the group will use. Suddenly the person is privy to teachings which are prohibited to the rest of humanity.

    The group will also provide answers. They will have answers to most, if not all, of the questions the person will have about existence in this planet. They will provide answers to everyday problems such as lack of money, relationships, health issues, unhappiness and stress.

    Fear is the way to keep the person involved even after their logical mind decides they have had enough. The person will be threatened that if they leave, no one will speak to them again. For long term cult members this will mean they will lose all of their friends and possibly their spouse and family. The person will also receive bigger threats, the most popular being that if they leave, they will suffer for all eternity. Particularly if the group is religious in nature, the fear of ending up in a hellish trap because the person left the only group that could provide salvation is a big weight to lift before breaking free.

    These are the things cults use to lure and keep people in their ranks. The question is why do they do it? What’s in it for them? Cults are invariably led by one person. When that person dies, the cult is then led a group or individual who will speak on that person’s behalf. But why do they do it?

    Money, power and sex are the main culprits.

    If you have someone who is lost to a cult you must understand that this person feels great affection and loyalty to the cult. For them it is not a cult, it is Johnny, Mary, Stewart, Rob, it is their best friends, their spouse and children perhaps. Their leader will not be a cult leader, it will be David who values and teaches them. In other words, what for an outsider is a cult which is controlling the person, for that person it is an intimate group of friends and co-workers who know and understands him or her.

    If you think you are immune to cults then think again. The cult will not approach you as a cult, it will be Michael next door, or Jenny from school, or perhaps an attractive and friendly person in your local mall offering a free service or book who approaches you.

    They won’t ask for your savings or your time or sexual favors, they will offer solutions, friendship and common interests instead.

    No one joins a cult to make the world a worse place to live in, or to make their leaders rich. You wouldn’t be joining one to do this either. Most of the cult members feverently believe in what they are doing. Once inside the cult, you would never think of yourself as someone who is going out there preying on innocent people to join your cult. You would be simply trying to share your new found happiness and teachings.

    Beware of groups, religions and known cults. You do not need to belong to any type of ideological or religious group and belonging to one and this one turns out to be the wrong one for you, it will only make you feel better for a finite period of time. Sooner or later, you will feel isolated from that group too, but by then it will be very difficult to leave them. But it's best to leave them than staying.

    If there is a group of people who you feel great affinity toward, approach with care and if they ever ask you for your savings or ask you to reach your credit card limit (to pay for a worthy cause), or if they ever tell you to cut communication with your family or friends (because they are a negative influence), or stop you from doing any activity which is not related to the group (because it's a waste of valuable time), ask yourself if perhaps you are in a cult and don't be ashamed to admit it if it turns out you are.
    (a) Inelia Benz - Free to distribute.
     
  3. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    That wasn't written as a description of Scientology per se. I can say that because:

    Is definately something C of S will do. They'll take every dime you've got and your next billion years if you'll give it to them. Other than that it is a perfect description of the Church of Scientology and what it does to its members.

    If you're interested in doing/trying Scientology stick to the Freezone.
     
  4. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I think that you would be better off to go ahead and do your own homework on this.

    Please read some books on this. You can probably look them up in a library near you.

    "L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman" by Bent Corydon

    "Bare-Faced Messiah" by Russell Miller

    "A Piece of Blue Sky: Scientology, Dianetics and L. Ron Hubbard Exposed" by Jon Atack
     
  5. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Covered above pretty much.

    Total Freedom, Cause over life, god-like abilites

    I'll let someone else help you with this one.

    Save the planet! We are the only group on earth that has the technology to do the job - high pressure too. On a personal basis, see #2

    I wanted those promised abilities... Still want them too!

    I found out about the lies.

    You are an immortal spiritual being - Scientology deals with increasing your awareness and abilities as a spiritual being - thus the religious aspect - dealing with you as a spirit. There is no worship or belief in god (although some would tell you Hubbard is worshipped. I wouldn't go that far.)

    I think there is workable technology there. The Church however is trouble. Hubbard lied and the Church lies. This is unacceptable in my book. That's not all that's wrong with the CofS either, feel free to read people's personal stories here on this board.
     
  6. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

  7. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Those books are available online at factnet.org, plus a number of other interesting reads: http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/books.htm
     
  8. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

  9. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

  10. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    1. Scientology is:

    a. an organization dedicated to making money
    b. a philosophy similar to game theory
    c. a body of procedures based on that philosophy intended to make a person either a better player or piece (or worse, when it's used in its "black scientology" form, which is often disguised)

    2. Scientology promises the moon. Superhuman abilities ranging from simply improved memory to the ability to generate universes. Full awareness of your immortality. It also makes more pedestrian and general promises, such as the ability to improve the conditions of yourself and others around you (which almost goes without saying when you can generate universes).

    3. The basics are "The Tone Scale", which is a plot of emotional affect, the "ARC" and "KRC" triangles (affinity-reality-communication and knowledge-responsibility-control, taken as summing to understanding and power, respectively), which are used as tools by increasing any one aspect allowing increase of any other aspect of the triangle. Additional fundamentals are the "Cycle of Action", particularly the communication cycle/formula, the ethics conditions and their formulas, the "reactive mind" (as put forth in Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health [DMSMH]). There are more, but those should keep you busy for a while.

    4. Recruiting tools include personality tests, stress tests, book sales, front groups like Narconon, Criminon, the World Literacy Crusade, but aren't limited to these, those just jump of the top of my head.

    5. I joined because I thought I was going to be trained to help other people overcome their limitations and disabilities, and overcome my own.

    6. I left because I was under a variety of intense mental pressures to conform, was being paid negligibly, and wasn't seeing the results I was promised.

    7. The religion is seen by its members as that you are a thetan (spiritual being) inhabiting a body, controlled by a mind, which acts as an interface with the body, used to control the parts of the world it is in contact with. The central belief is that the immortal spiritual being is confused into believing it IS its body, for a variety of reasons (including amnesia about the fact of its eternal existence), and that scientology procedures can help the spiritual being become free of the body, as well as gain greater control over its mind, and create games which are more fun to play with other spiritual beings.

    8. I don't consider scientology "just a lie". I think it contains lies, some useful tools, some truths, but is configured in a manner serving it's primary purpose: to make money. For this reason I have nothing to do with its organizations, although I don't have any problem with people of good will using it's useful tools and truths for the benefit of themselves or others. For myself, I am done with it, as a complete body, particularly its organizations, but I am not done with truths or useful tools.
     
  11. MarkWI

    MarkWI Patron Meritorious

    You may find many other answers here: http://alley.ethercat.com/door/

    M
     
  12. pugano

    pugano New Member

    thanks for the information all. ive been reading shit all over the net about it and its all so frickin cyptic its not even funny and im finding some of these training videos that basicly insult you if you dont join...
    i thank you all for your time and my understanding of scientology is a bit more now. its not something id ever do or plan on doing just never had a chance to ask current or former scientologysts about it before so i figured i would.. thank you all
     
  13. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    1) to me, it's the body of ideas and methods by Hubbard. Thus, one doesn't have to be in "the church of Scientology" to be a Scientologist.

    2) it says it can increase your abilities with no limits.

    3) There's a lot to it. I'll leave that to the others who've answered you already.

    4) In CofS, the recruiting usually is, they get you to take a personality test or you buy a book, then they talk to you, ask you what your "ruin" in life is, tell you Scn can help you with that and then you'd buy a course or some auditing, and the sales tactics would become more hard sell later...

    5)I took some courses and liked them.

    6)I left CofS but didn't leave "Scientology" itself. (much to the delight of MANY critics on forums to which I post. Har!) I left because they demeaned me and held me in contempt while still wanting MY money and MY time. It came to a head when they tried to tell me I couldn't post to alt.religion.scientology or even READ the forum.

    7) It's an applied religious philosphy that doesn't have any deity worship and which puts a lot of emphasis on mind over matter and so forth, to the extent where some sometimes outlandish and exaggerated promises are made to people about what they'll be able to do.

    8) There were some lies in Scn and the church certainly lies frequently to members. I've caught 'em in it. Hubbard lied to. But the methods do produce some results and I think his explanations about spirituality and the universe are better than anyone else's, so that makes me a non CofS Scientologist.