I had an interesting talk with a never in today on the OPEN Facebook group called SCIENTOLOGY DEPROGRAMMING. Philip Fairbanks I was never in Scientology but after years of reading Campbell, Jung and countless NLP books from Structure of Magic on I realized the insidious nature of the CULT is that theres a baby in the bathwater. I fell for Thelema and after a weird experience I couldn't explain spent years studying and trying to do the rituals. To this day though I want nothing to do with Crowley, Thelema or any orgs of which thankfully I was never a member, but there were parts of the (like Hubbard's, culled together from dozens of mysticisms before) practices that seemed to work. As to deciding where the baby is in the bathwater or if a partially faulty set of "principles" cobbled together from other spiritualist hoaxers like Crowley for instance, can be practiced safely independent of the primary cult, as Mueller would say: I cant speak to that. AlanzosBlog.com One of the most insidious aspects of having been in #Scientology is the stigma mainstream society places on Exes for having found a "baby" in the bathwater at all. Most Exes under this mainstream humiliation will deny that there was ever a baby in the first place - just to show that they are not "brainwashed" any more, and mainstream society can accept them again. This is a social pressure from mainstream society down onto members and former members of minority religious and spiritual pursuits. It's easy to see if you take an example outside of Scientology. Egypt, for example, has a mainstream society that is primarily Islamic. But there have been a small group of Christians in Alexandria and Cairo for 2000 years called the Coptics. Mainstream Egyptians need an explanation for why these people rejected the mainstream and chose to be Christian instead. So they say they did not choose at all - they were brainwashed or hypnotized or deceived into having beliefs that do not conform to theirs. This social pressure from mainstream society is rarely talked about any more among Ex "cult" members. The anticult movement beliefs of blaming the brainwashing dominate the worldviews of Exes now, and punishes them for rejecting mainstream religion and daring to find an alternative. Exes now are pressured to forget the "baby" they knew in Scientology, which was the reason they willingly and intentionally chose, every day, to be a Scientologist. When that baby disappeared, or if they no longer needed that baby, they left Scientology. And then they had to apologize to everybody in mainstream society for why they did what they did. "I was brainwashed" is an easy, and very self-destructive, way of explaining yourself so you can be acceptable again. What if Exes stopped apologizing for themselves? What if they valued the lessons they learned and recognized that getting out of a cult was not something to recover from, but something that they were strengthened by? #ScientologytheAftermath #ExJW #ExMormon #ExCult Philip Fairbanks I'm sure it's different depending on the individual and in some cases maybe best to just make a clean break. Though I was never in a cult I've found in studying them the tactics employed are the same as a few abusive sexes. There are, for instance, certain movies or songs I cant, rather wont listen to because it brings back all of that trauma. It'd be healthier maybe if i just faced it but I have to recover at my speed. So I can respect and empathize with folks regardless what line they're on. AlanzosBlog.com Philip Fairbanks Some of the most abusive and fanatical people in Scientology, such as Mike Rinder and Chris Shelton, need to blame the brainwashing for how they acted while in the cult. But if you never harmed anyone in #Scientology, and never would - which is 99.9% of the people who were involved - you don't need to apologize, or to blame something else for why you were in Scientology. A person can be made to believe that they experienced trauma, or to re-interpret their experiences as trauma. They can build up a kind of socially constructed nightmare and tell themselves continually that they were traumatized - simply because they believed something different from the mainstream. Rachel Bernstein, the cult counselor says that "every day you spend in a cult causes damage." No it doesn't. THIS IS NOT DENYING ANYONE WHO WAS TRAUMATIZED AND WHO NEEDS HELP. This is simply saying that there are more productive and constructive (and more true) alternatives to explain to yourself why you were in a "cult" than the anticult movement belief system allows.