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Mike Laws

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Mike Laws, Nov 19, 2010.

  1. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Self elected. Yes, I don't disagree on politeness, friendliness etc, being an excellent thing. But on these boards I have seen and learnt things I would never have learned if people stuck only to that. Frankness is not always possible or the best, but sometimes it trumps a permanent "operating" communication style in getting to the nitty gritty, learning useful things, analysing effectively, and all round "understanding". I first leaned that from a friend who was not an ex, completely outside of the world of the ex- debates.
    He always got very real engagement from people and got through to where they were *really coming from*. Now I have to go to work.
  2. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Isn't he what?

    Isn't he trying to cover up past crimes? Isn't he trying to sell himself as the authority on Scientology abuse to the media? Isn't he deliberately lying about historical fact in order to mislead people?

    I don't know; so far I haven't seen that.

  3. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Hmmm. I also try to do this. Its a tough job.

    Good on ya!
  4. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Meant Mike Laws.
  5. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Sheesh, you can't even get Marty to love you :)

    Not like *we* do; warts and all...

  6. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    That's what I understood and answered. Isn't Mike Laws *what*?

    I know nothing about Mike Laws doing any of the above mentioned things. So, whatever he was in RTC isn't really something I'm worried about. Nor is he in the same category as Marty/Mike.

    Yet :)

  7. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    We don't really know what Mike Laws did in the Church.

    What did you do there, Mike?
  8. Mike Laws

    Mike Laws Patron Meritorious

    Lol, Zinj and Terrel,

    You take a kid (I was 15 when I joined the Sea Org) give him a naval uniform and tell him he is elite and saving the world, LOL.

    When I was 18 Jesse Prince (and others) recruited me as one of the first 8 staff into the newly forming RTC. First under Steve Marlowe, and then Vicki Aznaran. I honestly didn't know we were under the control of DM till he came in and put us all on the decks in 88. DM headed up ASI, we thought ASI was at the same altitude as RTC. Up until that time I thought + (Annie Broker) was the big cheese.

    I started off on menial posts such as typist, and worked myself up to more "important" positions such as AVC Int Eval verifs, created the RTC Reports off line, did data anaylsis and "situation handlings" and stuff like that. Because I let the Navy Uniform get to my head I worked my way into intelligence, debriefing missions, data analysis, etc. etc. From this time my earlier comment and appology to Robin Scott was appropriate.

    I was no big wig, but had access to lots of information. Most of this info from that time period is well written up by others.
  9. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    anyway mike, I think Terril's point was that, since you were a big honcho in RTC, I should evaluate you by the same guidelines I use to evaluate Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder. And, in fact, that's what I do :)

    I suspect that Terril's point was that, if I'm willing to give you an honest evaluation based on your own words and actions, I should for Marty and Mike too.

    Which is also fair. And, I have :)

    Bzzzt. Evaluated.

  10. Mike Laws

    Mike Laws Patron Meritorious

    Lol, Alanzo, if you are who I think you are, I did a lot of file work on your case.

    I was born to a Scientology family in Melbourne.

    Started off my SO career in Australia, at 15 years old as the helper to the Mimeo Office, which I did for about 9 months. This was 1990. I was an overweight and introverted kid. I was conned into taking over the survey officer ANZO post for Mike Fitzpatrick who was supposedly going on LOA for 3 months to handle debts. This was a terrifying post because I had to actually talk to people. Turns out this was an increadibly valuable and empowering position because it forced me to be able to talk to people, I believe I surveyed over 50,000 scientologists and non in Sydney until I was 18. Turned out I had some aptitude here, and I was reportedly the top surveyor in the scientology international survey network, something long since dismantled.

    At 18 I was recruited into RTC, see earlier post.

    88, when DM took over RTC, I apparently pissed him off by talking back to him infront of a crowd, and was labled "this guy is real trouble, don't let him out of your site, don't let him get power" which was the unknown to me, precurser to hell for the rest of my scientology career, another story. Marty told me how my backflash and standing up to DM cursed the rest of my time in SCN, he could connect dots between dozens of incidents that I thought were random bad luck or kharma or motivators.

    I was in exec strata for some months after this in the eval corps, collecting and verifying data, when my wife became pregnant. Because I/we refused abortion, we were sent to a small and failing org ... CC Dallas. I was HES there, and reg. I had an affair and reported myself to my wife and management for screwing the ED and when I refused the RPF was offloaded. Another good story here for the future, which Amy Scobee saved my ass on when she was WDC CC.
  11. Mike Laws

    Mike Laws Patron Meritorious

    DB, we are pretty close to being on the same page, it seems.

    I am very much on the same page when I talk about liking real conversations with real people. Talking to someone about how bad it is that all these people are angry at them has no value when compared to asking the same person, in a friendly and polite way, what they think they are doing that is getting everyone upset at them.

    I am really new here, so have not earned my stripes to be especially outspoken.
  12. Mike Laws

    Mike Laws Patron Meritorious

    Zinj, take your time ... I am in no hurry.
  13. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    OK, here I think you are fucking with me, or you have me mixed up with someone else. No body worked on any case of mine, because I am, and continue to be nobody. But some day I hope to be a real live SP. The kind Tom Cruise cackles about.

    Interesting history.

    Thanks for answering, new guy.
  14. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron


    Welcome to ESMB…glad you are here with Us.

    I met your father once when he was an FCCI and I was Flag Crew. I did not know him well but he did have a rep as someone that you didn’t patty cake around with or schmooze. I am sorry to hear he has passed on and for your loss.

    I find your additions to the “Big Conversation” valuable and your demeanor invites thoughtful dialogue.

    It is my view that the “faction/fragmentation” of the “Opposition”...that you say Da Monster is “happy” due to the narcissistic greed blindness through which he, and El Ron, viewed the world is actually something he should be very worried about.

    During the Reformation the Roman Catholic Church used every avenue possible to “fight” its perceived “enemies”. The Reformation movement went through faction/fragmentation and a plethora of Sects and Denominations developed, including the rise of “Secularism” and “godless” (small “g” intended) science which helped pave the way for the Renaissance.

    During this period the Catholic Church sought to consolidate power and dominion over the flock by the establishment of the Roman Inquisition system. The Church “hit on” the wealthy to raise large amounts of cash and acquire/build property as part of this consolidation. As the Protestant movement and Secularism grew and bled the Church, the Church’s future became the Kings and Aristocracy that they were “in bed with” and the peoples of the New World that those Kings and Aristocracy had conquered. From that time forward fertility rates became the name of the game.

    During this same period the faction/fragmentation of the Protestant movement, Secularism and Science, in a sense, “won the day” without ever being cohesive or, often times, “respectful” with each other.

    The CofS—not from a lack of wanting or trying—has no “Kings” to give them "safe” harbor or mandate and conquer new members for it. The fertility rate of Scns is comparatively low has children and families get in the way of the faithful “Clearing the Planet” and moving up “The Bridge”. Moving into new countries and cultures is less remunerative and more difficult than extorting and conning the existing membership. Additionally, the faction/fragmentation process of the “enemies” of the Catholic Church took place over hundreds of years; in the “enemies” process of Scn it is happening in a time of open access and rapid transmitting of information across the world.

    To me, a major strength of the CofS’s opposition is its diversity and de-centralization. Conversely, a major weakness of the CofS is its Monolithic Command and Control Structure and the inability to diverge from destructive practices.

    My Best Wishes to you, Mike.

    Last edited: Nov 29, 2010
  15. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    For Mike and Marty, not you. I don't have enough data points to graph you yet :)

    I will take my time

  16. Cherished

    Cherished Silver Meritorious Patron

    Mike, I know you have a lot on your plate at the mo', but you are getting dangerously close to telling your story and, baby, we love stories.
  17. Cherished

    Cherished Silver Meritorious Patron

  18. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Mike this is really interesting and I love the other thread about support for people who leave. Your kindness and thoughtfulness shines through, you have walked that decompressing path and survived, and your words here will help many. :)
  19. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron


    The RTC.
    Mike, it would be great if you gave an overview of the absolute authority and altitude RTC has over the Sea Org Food chain.

    RTC word is LAW.
    If an RTC member comments about the weather, junior Sea Org Members listen with a hush....

    One big flaw with the Hierarchy modality is that Lunatics and Sadistic *WHACKOS * are promoted to high posts and then blamed for being "SP" for the trail of destruction they leave.....

    My son Alexander Jentzsch was put to slave labor at the Fort Harrison in Clearwater cleaning toilets and bannisters 12 hours a day with no schooling at the tender age of 12/13 when this incident occurred:::::

    A Former RTC member who's grandiose title was "RTC officer Flag" took some kind of issue with Alexander for unknown reasons. He would bullbait Alexander by putting his face one inch away from Alexander's nose and saying:
    "You want to hit me, don't you ?"
    "Go on, go on, strike me !"

    Alexander, just a kid, would keep his eyes on the floor and say softly

    "No sir, I do not want to hit you."

    Whereupon the RTC senior would mock him
    "You are too darned scared to be RPFd for striking me, you chicken!"

    This bullbaiting went on a several times.
    Alexander was alone at the Flag Land Base at this time, while his father Heber Jentzsch was going through hard labor and DM abuse. Heber would stand on his feet several hours a day steam cleaning the SO buses that would transport SO to Hemet.
    I had left the Sea Org but Alexander was not able to tell me any of this as I was non-SO.
    Sea Org members are carefully indoctrinated to not let SO abuse and SO bad occurrences leak to outside the SO

    It was only after this abusive RTC member BLEW and got declared Suppressive Person did Alexander feel comfortable telling me these incidents.

    So who puts a WHACKO abuser type in an RTC position at Flag so he can throw his weight around ? Other more senior RTC !

    And why do all Sea Org members kow tow and bow to the floor to RTC ?
    Because they have SENIORITY to abuse those lower on the food chain.
    Because they have the POWER to RPF a Sea Org Member on the spot ~~ a hell to endure for the next 7-10 years
    where you are cut off from all communication to the outside world.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
  20. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    :iagree::rickroll: Bring it on!