Mind over matter

[Tom_Booth]

"It not matter...matter is energy"

True enough.

Presumably it's not matter or energy either, but all Thought, which can manifest as matter/energy.

But I try not to spend too much time with speculation. Theory is theory. What works in practice may be different. It will come out in the wash/experiment.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

At the time I was just a kid, 15 or 16 maybe. I never followed up on it to that extent.

After the email exchange with my brother though I did call NYS Police to see if records were kept going back that far. If I recall, I was told that that would have been a local matter and it would be up to the department that answered the call if they kept records past a certain date or not.

With all the people my father said were there at the scene, who knows who made what sort of report under such circumstances. It might be interesting to follow up on, I just haven't as yet. You might say, I've been a little reluctant. I'm just glad my brother is alive and well and I'm not sure it's a good idea for me to question that too much.

Suppose I do, and I come across a file folder full of photographs of my brother's bloody corps tangled up in the remains of a car wreck ? Would I be forced to "come to grips with reality"? In other words, if it's possible to go back in time and change the past, could meddling with that too much change it back again ?

Still, my curiosity may get the better of me. I may follow up on it when I get the chance. If I do I'll let you know. In the meantime the short answer is no, I don't have anything like that. No police records or photos in my possession, though that doesn't necessarily mean none were made or none exist.

Okay, that makes sense--you wouldn't want to confront the moment you reversed time and raised the dead because (like Ron says) looking directly at the moment of creation will as-is it.

This is a good strategy for another reason too, because being known as a miracle worker is decidedly better PR than people thinking you are suffering from cognitive dissonance and delusional ideation.

ps: When I was 10 I had a pet rabbit that unexpectedly died and I was devastated. Can you kindly PM me a rate sheet for your professional services and let me know what kind of tech estimate is required bring little robbie-rabbit back? My grandmother was pretty cool too and I am wondering if there is a discounted rate for bulk resurrections.

 

[Tom_Booth]

Okay, that makes sense--you wouldn't want to confront the moment you reversed time and raised the dead because (like Ron says) looking directly at the moment of creation will as-is it.

This is a good strategy, because being known as a miracle worker is decidedly better PR than people thinking you are suffering from cognitive dissonance and delusional ideation.

ps: When I was 10 I had a pet rabbit that unexpectedly died and I was devastated. Can you kindly PM me a rate sheet for your professional services and let me know what kind of tech estimate is required bring little robbie-rabbit back? My grandmother was pretty cool too and I am wondering if there is a discounted rate for bulk resurrections.

Sorry, I'm not offering any professional services. If you would like to conduct some such experiment, and would like me to participate I'm game. But an experiment is an experiment. Why it might work sometimes or fail others depends upon a number of known variables, and possibly some unknown ones which cannot always be controlled.

 

[strativarius]

No offense taken, I get that a lot. Even my mother said the same thing as I mentioned above.

As far as drugs, I'm not on any and wasn't then. I could certainly tell you the visualization method I've been using though, which is what I intend to do here anyway.

Originally Posted by strativarius

I don't know what it is you're on TB, but whatever it is can I have some of it,...

I doubt that your mother was trying to be sarcastic. Now MY mother told me not to mock the afflicted so I will try and keep the sarcasm to a minimum.

I'm getting on in years and don't get about so much these days so I've got an excuse for sitting in front of my computer talking bollocks. What's yours?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

Sorry, I'm not offering any professional services. If you would like to conduct some such experiment, and would like me to participate I'm game. But an experiment is an experiment. Why it might work sometimes or fail others depends upon a number of known variables, and possibly some unknown ones which cannot always be controlled.

Did you ever try any experiments with something called reality?

 

[Tom_Booth]

I doubt that your mother was trying to be sarcastic.

No, I wouldn't say she was being sarcastic.

Now MY mother told me not to mock the afflicted so I will try and keep the sarcasm to a minimum.

I'm getting on in years and don't get about so much these days so I've got an excuse for sitting in front of my computer talking bollocks. What's yours?

After that incident, I spent another 30 years doing experiments. More intentional - deliberate experiments that involved some forethought and planning that is. It took that long before I started getting results that were comparable on what I suppose might be called the "impossibility scale" before I was able to look back on this first experience or "experiment" and take it at face value.

Consider it nonsense if you like, I don't really blame you. As any kind of "scientific evidence" it's merely anecdotal at best. I'm not interested so much in proving anything about it, I'm interested in the possibility of conducting some carefully designed experiments in the future. I think that necessitates finding collaborators which is my main purpose in posting these reports on the internet... which is something I've been doing for years, in any forum where it seems there is even a slim possibility someone interested in experimenting with this sort of thing might stumble across it.

 

[Tom_Booth]

..




Did you ever try any experiments with something called reality?

I would say that these experiments are intended to discover to what extent "reality" can be influenced by thought. In that respect; certainly.

I don't suppose that's what you mean though. Your assumption is, I presume, that "reality" is a fixed object which is not in anyway influenced by the mind.

The theory or teachings of mystics and some philosophers, Buddhists and so forth is that "reality" is a reflection of thought or created by thought. That is, that it is to one degree or another malleable or can be influenced by the mind.

These are opposing and contradictory views, the materialist philosophy as opposed to the Idealist philosophy.

My experiments were/are intended to resolve the issue taking a methodical scientific approach, hopefully without any bias towards one view over the other or one outcome over the other but based upon theory, experiment and observation.

 

[strativarius]

Consider it nonsense if you like, I don't really blame you. As any kind of "scientific evidence" it's merely anecdotal at best. I'm not interested so much in proving anything about it, I'm interested in the possibility of conducting some carefully designed experiments in the future. I think that necessitates finding collaborators which is my main purpose in posting these reports on the internet... which is something I've been doing for years, in any forum where it seems there is even a slim possibility someone interested in experimenting with this sort of thing might stumble across it.

Yes, I do consider it nonsense. Nothing more to add, as whatever one says it just gives you a further opportunity to proseletize.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Okay, that makes sense--you wouldn't want to confront the moment you reversed time and raised the dead because (like Ron says) looking directly at the moment of creation will as-is it.

This is a good strategy for another reason too, because being known as a miracle worker is decidedly better PR than people thinking you are suffering from cognitive dissonance and delusional ideation.

ps: When I was 10 I had a pet rabbit that unexpectedly died and I was devastated. Can you kindly PM me a rate sheet for your professional services and let me know what kind of tech estimate is required bring little robbie-rabbit back? My grandmother was pretty cool too and I am wondering if there is a discounted rate for bulk resurrections.

Careful HH, you may just end up with a houseful of rabbits. Tom admits he hasn't perfected his bulk resurrections yet and he may cock things up slightly. Robbie will have been "busy" since you last saw him (you know what rabbits are like) and could turn up with all his heavenly rabbity kids in tow! ... you didn't think of that did ya!

Sigh.

You get what you pay for.

It's a good thing I'm here to keep things sane and ... sensible.

 

[Tom_Booth]

Yes, I do consider it nonsense. Nothing more to add, as whatever one says it just gives you a further opportunity to proseletize.

proselytize: convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.

That would hardly be my motive. In my general experience, anyone with a fixed religious conviction of any kind would not be very well suited for these kind of experiments.

If reality is a reflection of thought, then consciously altering reality through mental influence involves having the ability to change ones mind arbitrarily, a faculty that few with any strongly held religious convictions seem willing or able to exercise. That is pretty much true in regard to strongly held convictions of any kind.

It is true that this kind of mental activity has some correspondence with some of Hubbard's philosophy, largely borrowed from Buddhism and the Esoteric traditions, such as "making a postulate stick" i.e. adopting an arbitrary conviction. Which is why I thought it might be worthwhile to address individuals who had some familiarity with such notions or mental gymnastics.

Proving one way or another that mind has some influence on "matter" does not however necessarily recommend Scientology or any other belief system nor does it justify any social abuses perpetrated by any group.

In other words, if anyone here is interested in participating in any mind-over-matter or "visualization" type experiment, I could care less about their opinion regarding Scientology and would not seek to change it or require that they change it as a condition of participation.

I'm not even interested in whether or not someone "believes" in "mind-over-mater" so long as they are open minded enough to carry out some experiments.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

I'm not even interested in whether or not someone "believes" in "mind-over-matter" so long as they are open minded enough to carry out some experiments.

What was it about "us" that made you feel we would be interested in that kind of thing?

Have you contacted the indies (who are already "that way" inclined) that I suggested yet and if not why not?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

That would hardly be my motive. In my general experience, anyone with a fixed religious conviction of any kind would not be very well suited for these kind of experiments.

If reality is a reflection of thought, then consciously altering reality through mental influence involves having the ability to change ones mind arbitrarily, a faculty that few with any strongly held religious convictions seem willing or able to exercise. That is pretty much true in regard to strongly held convictions of any kind.

It is true that this kind of mental activity has some correspondence with some of Hubbard's philosophy, largely borrowed from Buddhism and the Esoteric traditions, such as "making a postulate stick" i.e. adopting an arbitrary conviction. Which is why I thought it might be worthwhile to address individuals who had some familiarity with such notions or mental gymnastics.

Proving one way or another that mind has some influence on "matter" does not however necessarily recommend Scientology or any other belief system nor does it justify any social abuses perpetrated by any group.

In other words, if anyone here is interested in participating in any mind-over-matter or "visualization" type experiment, I could care less about their opinion regarding Scientology and would not seek to change it or require that they change it as a condition of participation.

I'm not even interested in whether or not someone "believes" in "mind-over-mater" so long as they are open minded enough to carry out some experiments.

In fact, most all of the people on ESMB have for some years been carrying on a visualization experiment regarding Scientology. And they have succeeded beautifully in evidencing mind over matter insofar as Scientology has continued to respond by precipitously collapsing.

As an org staff member, you are on the other side of the experiment with all the Clears & OTs who are visualizing ("postulating") that Scientology will expand.

VISUALIZATION SCOREBOARD THUS FAR:

SPs: VISUALIZATION STATS = 97.5% OF SCIENTOLOGISTS BLOW THE CULT
OTs: VISUALIZATION STATS = 2.5% OF SCIENTOLOGISTS STAY IN THE CULT​

The SPs are winning by a crushing margin. They apparently are much more OT than the OTs.

The SPs' power of visualization is so supernaturally effective that even COS Scientologists are psychologically compelled to join and contribute to the notorious SP website, ESMB. Scientologists like you.

 

[Lone Star]

In fact, most all of the people on ESMB have for some years been carrying on a visualization experiment regarding Scientology. And they have succeeded beautifully in evidencing mind over matter insofar as Scientology has continued to respond by precipitously collapsing.

As an org staff member, you are on the other side of the experiment with all the Clears & OTs who are visualizing ("postulating") that Scientology will expand.

VISUALIZATION SCOREBOARD THUS FAR:

SPs: VISUALIZATION STATS = 97.5% OF SCIENTOLOGISTS BLOW THE CULT
OTs: VISUALIZATION STATS = 2.5% OF SCIENTOLOGISTS STAY IN THE CULT​

The SPs are winning by a crushing margin. They apparently are much more OT than the OTs.

The SPs' power of visualization is so supernaturally effective that even COS Scientologists are psychologically compelled to join and contribute to the notorious SP website, ESMB. Scientologists like you.

Well there ya go! No need for any further experiments!

 

[Claire Swazey]

Life's too important to be taken seriously, or to worry about reality. Yes, we need to know how to rent or buy our domiciles, pay bills, do our jobs- all the aspects of living in our society, but, once the rent or mortgage is paid, calls returned, groceries bought, we are free to explore and experiment with the odd and esoteric. Makes for a much better quality of life, IMO.

 

[Lone Star]

Life's too important to be taken seriously, or to worry about reality. Yes, we need to know how to rent or buy our domiciles, pay bills, do our jobs- all the aspects of living in our society, but, once the rent or mortgage is paid, calls returned, groceries bought, we are free to explore and experiment with the odd and esoteric. Makes for a much better quality of life, IMO.

Oh Claire....you are just so...claire-i-fying!

I do declaire.

 

[lotus]

Careful HH, you may just end up with a houseful of rabbits. Tom admits he hasn't perfected his bulk resurrections yet and he may cock things up slightly. Robbie will have been "busy" since you last saw him (you know what rabbits are like) and could turn up with all his heavenly rabbity kids in tow! ... you didn't think of that did ya!

Sigh.

You get what you pay for.

It's a good thing I'm here to keep things sane and ... sensible.

Glad you took responsibility ITYIWT

I find HH very much imprudent to enter such experiments, with such demands.

I've read on others MB, that Tommy Booth had been very much interested in recruiting Oatees, for their Oatee powers in action for tommy's experiments.

Can you imagine 100 Oatees to postulate 100Xtimes the rabbit to come back to life ????


Very much imprudent and not judicious as you probably didn't reflect about the consequences of such postulates (what one would do with all those rabbits )

:confused2:

Thanks to ITYIWT to keep sanity on a such esoteric power stuff thread

* It came to my mind the Harry Potter gross errors with magics powers - it created very dangerous situation one should keep in mind!

 

[Gib]

Life's too important to be taken seriously, or to worry about reality. Yes, we need to know how to rent or buy our domiciles, pay bills, do our jobs- all the aspects of living in our society, but, once the rent or mortgage is paid, calls returned, groceries bought, we are free to explore and experiment with the odd and esoteric. Makes for a much better quality of life, IMO.

say what.

Life is important to be taken seriously, although I understand spirit of play,

but I do worry about reality.

I don't think it's real to see ghosts in a closest, nor in a auditing session, because Hubbard or anybody else said, or suggested, to do so.

Them BT's are elusive. LOL

In that, trying to get others to see them thar ghosts, BT's. Laughter.

Oh, my god, there is a whole industry trying to do this, one I know of for sure is called scientology, aka Hubbardology.

pay your tithes. LOL

for the greatest show on earth. LOL

 

[Claire Swazey]

say what.

Life is important to be taken seriously, although I understand spirit of play,

but I do worry about reality.

I don't think it's real to see ghosts in a closest, nor in a auditing session, because Hubbard or anybody else said, or suggested, to do so.

Them BT's are elusive. LOL

In that, trying to get others to see them thar ghosts, BT's. Laughter.

Oh, my god, there is a whole industry trying to do this, one I know of for sure is called scientology, aka Hubbardology.

pay your tithes. LOL

for the greatest show on earth. LOL

I did talk about addressing and dealing with everyday reality in my post, as well.

And yah, this deadly serious type thing just doesn't do it for me. Hubbard did say that it was all soooo serious, agonized future of every blah blah. But he said that to keep people involved in his cult. This led to staff contracts, routing forms, ethics. In the regular non Scn world it leads to wars and pain.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Absolutism is highly overrated.

 

[Tom_Booth]

What was it about "us" that made you feel we would be interested in that kind of thing?

Have you contacted the indies (who are already "that way" inclined) that I suggested yet and if not why not?

I didn't start this "mind-over-matter" thread. One might logically assume at least one person here was interested in the topic.

Yes I've been in contact with "indies". For the most part I've found them to be as recalcitrant as anybody.